The Peace Agreement Proves Putin Was Lying All Along

a reply to: Xcathdra

Turkey has a more solid claim on Crimea than what Russia does.

For heavens sake.

The people that live in Crimea voted to be part of the Russian Federation. This was very recent.

Their house, their rules.

It is what they wanted because most are ethnic Russians.

You sound just like a superpower dividing up the world to your liking.

The people have spoken!

P

a reply to: Xcathdra

In 1954, Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev gave Ukraine a gift: Crimea.

"Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet transferring Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic, taking into account the integral character of the economy, the territorial proximity and the close economic ties between Crimea Province and the Ukraine Republic, and approving the joint presentation of the Presidium of the Russian Republic Supreme Soviet and the Presidium of the Ukraine Republic Supreme Soviet on the transfer of Crimea Province from the Russian Republic to the Ukraine Republic."

And with that, a region that had been part of Russia for centuries was "gifted" to Ukraine.

"Gifted" because Khrushchev's transfer was ostensibly to mark the 300th anniversary of Ukraine's merger with the Russian empire. And he probably didn't think the Soviet Union would be gone less than 40 years later. He was also drunk at the time he offered Crimea.

I guess since the protesters didn't want closer economic cooperation with Russia then Russia wanted its Gift back. I guess when married couple break up they give their rings back lol

"Fu$k the EU" - Victoria Nuland

Crimea was an internationally recognized Autonomous Republic and choose to stay being part of the Ukraine till there was illegal coup and they choose to join RF.

But that`s something which is being ignored totally, because that`s not something which can be told when you want to smear Putin.

a reply to: Reinmax

The flaw in your argument is you are ignoring the Budapest document. A document that Russia signed, among others, recognizing the territorial integrity of Ukraine. That included Crimea.

If Russia were on safe legal ground then they would not be discussing legislation making that transfer to Ukraine null and void, which again, violates the Budapest agreement.

Oh another we need to all go to war and die thread why am I not suprised?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Crimea was an internationally recognized Autonomous Republic and choose to stay being part of the Ukraine till there was illegal coup and they choose to join RF.

But that`s something which is being ignored totally, because that`s not something which can be told when you want to smear Putin.

Except there was no coup...

The facts and evidence have confirmed that point. However you guys have to maintain that fallacy in order to justify Russia's invasion.

Also Russia accepted and recognizes the Ukrainian government - president and parliament.


As for the vote's in the east / Crimea -
They ignored Ukrainian law / constitution.
They ignored international law.

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: Xcathdra

Oh, for heavens sake.

The Naval base in Crimea has all the latest weapons and troops and everything else you may want. They were placed there by agreement with the previous (legitimate) government's approval.

Russia does not have to send arms over the border, they are already in country! They are supposed to be there.

P

So they magically appeared in east Ukraine all the way from Crimea under tight Russian control and you think its somehow no big deal. That deal with the Russians expired the minute they ANNEXED Crimea.

The Ukranians in the east took over many Military bases, infact a fair chuck of the Ukrainian military choose to be on the side of the east Ukrainians. Its a civil war between east and west with other countries sticking there nose in. Hell Poland has admitted providing lethal weapons to the current so called government and NATO's way of dodging a straight answer is to say its members can provide weapons if they choose to do so.

What I am trying to say is that just because a countries military gear turns up in the country it does not mean they are militarily involved hence the reference to the UK supplying APC's to Ukraine. Same with all the Russian gear used by Ukrainians against each other.

Remember this is the government fighting its own people. Ukrainian versus Ukrainian although there would be a lot of merc's as well.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Crimea was an internationally recognized Autonomous Republic and choose to stay being part of the Ukraine till there was illegal coup and they choose to join RF.

But that`s something which is being ignored totally, because that`s not something which can be told when you want to smear Putin.

You mean the Kangaroo vote where Crimean s that wanted nothing to do with Russia taking over were beaten in the streets for weeks before the Vote. Oh yeah sure the Russians want you to think that was a fair Vote although not one country besides the communist countries very friendly even recognized it. I think even China dismissed it, or did not want to give their opinion on it to not piss off Russia. This is what they had to say, If China thinks this then you know it was a BS vote.

China, meanwhile, is trying to tread a fine line on the issue. When asked at a press conference if China would recognize Crimea as part of Russia, Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hong Lei gave a carefully noncommittal response: “China always respects all countries’ sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity. The Crimean issue should be resolved politically under a framework of law and order. All parties should exercise restraint and refrain from raising the tension.”

thediplomat.com...

a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Crimean government did not need to rig the vote as the Crimean population wanted to join Russia.

Also China did not comment as they don't approve of districts voting for independence as it set an example. IE TIBET.

originally posted by: Reinmax
a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Crimean government did not need to rig the vote as the Crimean population wanted to join Russia.

Also China did not comment as they don't approve of districts voting for independence as it set an example. IE TIBET.

You are aware of all the vote rigging that went on. And of course the tartars didn't vote they make up a third of the population. But oddly even without there votes somehow they managed to get 80 percent?? But Russia knows this since they themselves admitted the vote was faked. Oops wasn't that a mistake and by the way having an election where your only 2 options are to join Russia or leave Ukraine and become in dependant only leaves 1 choice doesn't it. Even if independent they simply vote to join in though the same people that were sent to Russia to be wined and dined by putin.

If Siberia voted to be part of Mongolia do you think put in would be happy to seed that territory. If Alaska voted to return to being a Russian territory do u you think that would work. no because a region of a country doesn't have its self constitute the vote of an entire nation. If they wanted to do it correctly they could ask for a referendum, failing that they could go to the un for recognition. In the case of independence they would then be able to vote on becoming a part of Russia.

originally posted by: wondera
If Siberia voted to be part of Mongolia do you think put in would be happy to seed that territory. If Alaska voted to return to being a Russian territory do u you think that would work. no because a region of a country doesn't have its self constitute the vote of an entire nation. If they wanted to do it correctly they could ask for a referendum, failing that they could go to the un for recognition. In the case of independence they would then be able to vote on becoming a part of Russia.

Theres more Chinese in parts of Siberia than Russians can't wait for there vote. They still want there land back since Russia stile it from them.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That's a funny cartoon and all...pretty much representative of the quality of evidence shown so far, but do you have any actual proof that voters were "beaten in the streets" and forced to "vote at gunpoint"?

a reply to: wondera

Why has the UN refused to recognize the votes in Crimea and the South / East of Ukraine? Because under international law the votes must conform to the laws of the country in question. Since those votes violated Ukrainian law / constitution the vote results are invalid.

As for Alaska it does not belong to Russia considering Russia sold the territory to the US. There are processes in place for a US state / commonwealth / territory to determine its own fate however it requires a vote by the entire nation. A perfect example of this is Puerto Rico.

Going to the UN and asking for recognition is not that simple. If it were Palestine would be its own entity.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: Xcathdra

That's a funny cartoon and all...pretty much representative of the quality of evidence shown so far, but do you have any actual proof that voters were "beaten in the streets" and forced to "vote at gunpoint"?

Yes - research the UN response to the votes and Russias claims for Crimea / East/South Ukraine..

Strange then, that millions of Ukrainians are fleeing to Russia. I think it was quite obvious to most of them what was going to happen which is why Crimea voted to join Russia. Now Crimea is the only stable area, and if Russia hadn't taken them under wing they would now look just like donetsk and lughansk. Further, only6% of ukrainians are following their draft orders, not the sign of a people who believe in the war. Lastly, if the rebels and Russia are the invaders, why do all the conflicts take place in eastern cities? The "rebels" could have destroyed the whole ukraine military and taken over the country twice now, and they didn't. Your lies are easy to see through, childish, and dangerous.

originally posted by: pexx421
Strange then, that millions of Ukrainians are fleeing to Russia. I think it was quite obvious to most of them what was going to happen which is why Crimea voted to join Russia. Now Crimea is the only stable area, and if Russia hadn't taken them under wing they would now look just like donetsk and lughansk. Further, only6% of ukrainians are following their draft orders, not the sign of a people who believe in the war. Lastly, if the rebels and Russia are the invaders, why do all the conflicts take place in eastern cities? The "rebels" could have destroyed the whole ukraine military and taken over the country twice now, and they didn't. Your lies are easy to see through, childish, and dangerous.

Odd even Russia only claims 814000 so far so where do you get your claim of millions. By the way Russia only allows them to stay for 240 days than they have to leave. Also not allowed to work and if they don't have relatives will starve.

The reason these people fled to Russia is surprise they have relatives there outside the conflict. Oh and please show me where there only getting 6 percent in there draft. Ukraine called up 100000 and last I heard they were training 60000. So 6 percent can't be right huh?

a reply to: dragonridr

Here ya go. www.zerohedge.com... , and apparently they are trying to press gang all the males up to age 60, and contemplating women as Well. Not the Mark of a People fighting for a just cause. I have yet to hear anything about donetsk or luhansk having a draft, or executing deserters on sight, or really having any deserters. Except for the deserters from the ukraine army that have gone over to their side. Hm. Really hard to see who is the legitimate aggressor from the point of view of the People fighting there. Not.

We have the pro Russians refusing OSCE access to the disputed town.
We have the pro Russians stating the cease fire does not apply to the disputed town.

We have Russia trying to get a UNSC resolution passed that requires Ukraine to assume full responsibility for what happens while ignoring the pro Russian side.

Sounds like a set up to me.