Speaking of the Devil....

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

[...]Germany was not the aggressor.
To be an aggressor, that would mean that you initiated the war, which Germany did not do, but was England through its proxy, Poland.

Sweet! If I understand you correctly, Poland started the war by getting itself invaded and occupied by a non-aggressive Nazi-Germany war machine, and that it was really all England's fault? Neat. But carry on, the two of you would make the perfect couple

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

. . . Poland started the war by getting itself invaded and occupied by a non-aggressive Nazi-Germany . . .

Exactly . . glad you are getting it.
Poland had a larger and better equipped army than Germany.
Now when you watch a documentary on mainstream media, they have a stock file they insert here of a war "expert" saying that Poland was "militarily weak".
Of course they don't explain in what way, exactly, and leave it to the audience to imagine the Polish army were riding on horseback with sabers and lances.
Now you can recruit a lot of people and put them in uniforms and give them tanks and other equipment (that Poland was in debt to England for), but it is another thing to get them motivated when they are basically already a client state to the British.
After WW I, the English made what they called a treaty, but was really a document for the demise of Germany, that transferred large tracks of land, with a large population of German people, to neighboring countries, including Poland.
What happened next, to provoke the Germans into a fight, that would justify English intervention, was the genocidal program by the Polish to eliminate the ethnic Germans, and had murdered over 60 thousand of them before Germany made their move to reoccupy their former territory.
If they really wanted Poland, they wouldn't have allowed the Russians to take the larger portion of it, and would have just overrun the entire country.

originally posted by: jmdewey60

Exactly . . glad you are getting it.

What Hitler and Nazi-Germany did on 1st September 1939, was an aggressive act of war, that marks the start of WWII, that brought Soviet into the war a fortnight later. Poland was in other words forcibly DP'ed by Hitler and Stalin-- and you blame Poland?!? Was Poland dressing like a tart or something?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

. . . an aggressive act of war, . . .

Not in normal terms, for a world war.
In a normal world it would have been a local event and ignored by anyone not involved, except of course by the arms dealers, who would flock to it.

What was set up was basically a fool-proof plan by the English to create a continent-wide conflagration, set up by years of alliance making and ultimatums and red lines being drawn, and behind the scenes armament procurement from the US in preparation for total war.
Meanwhile the Germans were only preparing for self-defense against the military buildup across the border in Poland that was pointed right at them.
The advantage the Germans had was that they stood on the moral high ground as the innocent victims, where their only fault was their personal industriousness and success at their endeavors for self improvement and financial freedom.

. . . and you blame Poland?!?

They were only acting as the puppets for the City of London banking system.

Anyway, back to the thread topic, Hitler is not either Satan, or a beast or horn or other symbol in Old Testament prophecy, just made to look that way to deflect attention away from the Communist Allies' war crimes and crimes against humanity in the great banker's war of 1939-45.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

How can England (as a non player) think it could possibly initiate the destruction of Germany without having a standing navy (one of the perks of WWI Versailles Treaty; England had to sink its navy or turn them into merchant ships) have to ask America's assistance to thwart Hitler's idea of world domination in 1941.

jmdewey60: You have this completely backwards, I hope you know.To be an aggressor, that would mean that you initiated the war, which Germany did not do, but was England through its proxy, Poland.

You have got to be kidding. Did you know; Germany faked a Polish take over of a German communication/RADIO STATION that was located on the border; Germans disguised as Pols "captured" the harmless station and murdered their own people to accomplish this (all manufactured hijinks in order to have a reason to invade POLAND). Oh that other thing: Germany invaded the Czech nation prior to this (A VIOLATION OF the Versailles Treaty).

jmdewey60: Hitler did not have a private army, since the military was part of the country's government, and not under a private person, since Hitler was the elected Chancellor of Germany.
The idea of an ethnic cleansing is a sort of explanation made up by Germany's enemies to demonize them, rather than an actual government policy.

The SS was Hitler's private army; under Heinrick Himmler's command; and "The Final Solution" (exterminating perceived enemies of the state) was a governmental policy. It started with the creation of the Dachau concentration camp and interring political prisoners. Hitler needed Poland, in order to take its coastline proximity to the Baltic sea (shipyard potential); very fertile lands to cultivate and to be able to build the death camps; far away from the general German populace and the rest of the worlds observation. Who were interred? Catholics, Jews, Jehovah Witness's, intellectuals, the 'deemed medically deficient. Thank God people like Albert Einstein got out of there in '38.

jmdewey60: What people need to realize is that WW II was a huge, devastating, murderous economic struggle to unite Europe into one big communistic government, ruled over economically by England through their banking system, a plan that was being thwarted by Germany which was an industrial power that was making products that were superior to England's (the sale of which was key to the plan for creating England's hegemony through transfer of wealth). The other thing that brought down the ire of the powers in England was Germany's kicking out the London bankers from Germany and setting up their own national bank that issued money that was not on loan from London banks.

This is astonishing (if you see this as true) Germany should have focused entirely on England then/and the banking systems (I will not go to that place you are alluding to as I am not a racist), invading Russia in the winter? *what were they thinking*. I understand taking the 'party countries" no standing armies; just farmers easy pickings. Germany had no money prior to 1933; no one invested in that country, they economically were in a deep depression which allowed nationalist fanaticism/ fascism to flourish.

jmdewey60: The point being that 60 million people ended up dead in the aftermath of this power struggle that England has been feverishly working on continuously, and has never let up on since, to shift the blame for away from themselves and onto the selected scapegoat. You can see this constantly in the movies with fantastic depictions of Germans of that era as villains, and never in a balanced sort of way. For example, the BBC series Downton Abby (and practically every TV show from the BBC throws in their digs against the Germans) that makes the English going to war in Europe as heroic while constantly referring to Germans and Germany in the worse terms possible. And even in the movie, Grand Budapest Hotel, they have fictional villainous government thugs that obviously are modeled to connect in people's mind to Hitler era Germany.

You left out "Monty Python". You are saying England is ultimately responsible for 60 million deaths? What is your take on those MEDDLING Americans that basically funded the invasion of Europe with resources and manpower (in order to free her from the NAZI's intent of 'world domination'). Sounds just like ISIS radicalism, except for the Islamic component (Hitler was more of a lets "cleanse" the human DNA pool of everything that is not of Aryan decent kind of guy even though he was not German, small statured, dark haired and oily/greasy; rat like in appearance). I enjoyed "Grand Budapest Hotel' ITS A MOVIE, Downton Abbey is a TELEVISION SERIES. You equate this light entertainment as serious propaganda?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

. . . Poland started the war by getting itself invaded and occupied by a non-aggressive Nazi-Germany . . .

jmdewey60: Exactly . . glad you are getting it.
Poland had a larger and better equipped army than Germany.

This so sad, (your point of view) as Poland did not have a standing army at all; they were trying to live their lives simply and honestly. I guess their God failed to inform them; "you are about to be invaded by Fascist Nazis that will murder your" RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. They would probably have responded in this way "NO WAY; why a human do such a thing to another fellow human?". Gods response "They are not human, they are monsters".

jmdewey60Now when you watch a documentary on mainstream media, they have a stock file they insert here of a war "expert" saying that Poland was "militarily weak". Of course they don't explain in what way, exactly, and leave it to the audience to imagine the Polish army were riding on horseback with sabers and lances.

The 'stock footage' was not manufactured. What is depicted is actual Polish men on horseback with sabers charging German tanks. How would I know, from those Polish people that I know whom grandparents miraculously survived this invasion and emigrated to the United States via England.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

How would you know (as you what, observe the Christian bug like specie)? You said you were not of the Christian faith.

Presumably, as a scholarly sort of fellow, Utnapisjtim has read his BIble (just as I have) and he knows (as I do) that the Western European concept of the Devil is not drawn from any description found therein. The closest thing to the Western concept of Satan in the Bible is, of course, the Lord as portrayed in the Book of Job.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I am not necessarily talking about sensible people....

Yes, I see exactly what you mean. But you know, this mystical prophetic stuff only encourages pro-Nazi revisionism and similar filth. It's just the kind of thing creeps like that like to wallow in.

a reply to: Astyanax

I agree, where Satan just seems to be Gods little angry, or paranoid inner voice, and probably could of been a "Thunderer" originally. If the Abrahamic God or YahWeh was the personification of the Sun, then Satan could be a personified Thunderer, after it seems crashing that Satan likes to crash into things, like ether falling like his head was made of metal, or being unleash from the sky. And there is alot of different personifications and supersitions with lightning in every other mythology, along with the Sun.

Also the Morning Star title and how Satan and Lucifer are interchangeable, and explains that Satan was rather bright, and not so much the prince of darkness as believed. Him being a fallen angel, possibly means deadly bright object, from the sky.

Satan being believed to have been Zeus, is a lot like saying Jesus was Thor. Thor and Zeus both dropped objects from the sky, whether the spear or the hammer. However, Zeus is too...egotistical compared to Thor, where Thor served Valhalla or was Odins hand, and also was believed to be a heal, but Im not too familar with that.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

This so sad, (your point of view) as Poland did not have a standing army at all; they were trying to live their lives simply and honestly. I guess their God failed to inform them; "you are about to be invaded by Fascist Nazis that will murder your" RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. They would probably have responded in this way "NO WAY; why a human do such a thing to another fellow human?". Gods response "They are not human, they are monsters".

Where are you getting this? Have you ever thought about doing some study into actual history rather than going with TV contrived pseudo-history?
Do you actually believe that Poland did not have an army?

What is depicted is actual Polish men on horseback with sabers charging German tanks.

Seriously?
And you think that Poland did not have any tanks of their own?
I would suggest pulling yourself away from the TV long enough to do some study in actual books.

a reply to: Astyanax

I read the funniest joke in a newspaper the other day. There are these two grumpy old blokes sitting on a bench, and one of them goes, «I deny the Holocaust, it didn't happen!» and the other one goes, «That's nothing, I can prove the whole WW2 never happened! It's all a big lie!»

a reply to: Astyanax

Your presumptions in the post above are quite right. Although I don't see the devil typically as the casual vagabond displayed in Job really, then again, this modus remains well within the limits of his function. The way I see it, the dragon are the vanguards or spearheads of God, humanity's Big Brother-- a security measure God established before creating humanity. A kind of divine police, gold plated brass badge in the forehead right hand fasces of the Law kind of deal, only on divine level. The Christian idea that Satan is lawless and genuinely evil is all bollocks. He's God's right hand and the Kosher in kosher. That's why they generally hate him, for he constantly reminds them of their inadequacy and their sins and desires and such. His mere presence reminds them of humanity's shortcomings. Compared to the covering cherub, all men are filth.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yikes I didn't know that that was TV in Hebrew. That's pretty wild.

Worship has to include love, doesn't it? So maybe it's bad if you freaking love your TV and your pop idols but if you don't love things that are worldly then you're not worshiping evil.

a reply to: jmdewey60

uh so what are you saying, that Hitler didn't kill the millions of jews that he definitely killed?

You are right about the Poland stuff--I read history books too.

While I believe that much of the nazi hate is propaganda, I can tell you that not all of it is. The germans were not happy campers after WWI. They acted way rash and got all try-hard and crazy and killed a bunch of people and tried to expand their empire. Not a new story--it's happened before.

Sure some things are embellished--the victor writes history, after all--but some things are true. I don't think the conspiracy is as deep as you believe--or rather--I don't think you realize the conspiracy. It's not down to rhetoric. I believe it involves the occult. Hitler began with good intentions and then got messed the heck up in the head. Is it due to demonic influences? Due to the crazies? Who knows. But he wasn't a good guy. He is pitiable.

And with regards to that guy saying poland didn't have an army--maybe he was mistaken and really talking about Stalingrad or something? lol

a reply to: rukia

Here's a great online Hebrew keyboard and translator:
==> www.doitinhebrew.com...

In Hebrew, תו (TaV) also means musical note and a few other things, and it is the name of the last letter of the Hebrew alefbet. Then again, the word for Television in Hebrew is טלוויזיה or "televiyz'yah". And the T used isn't Tav (ת) but Tet (ט) so shortened TV (the acronym) would be טו (or "Tet-Vav") but that's not really a word and makes no sense.

a reply to: rukia

uh so what are you saying, that Hitler didn't kill the millions of jews that he definitely killed?

Your saying "definitely" demonstrates, I imagine, a sort of judgment that has been instilled in people by just plain repetition, unless you can actually document with facts what you are claiming.
It is a fact that if people hear something being told is a fact, enough times, they will believe that it is a fact, supported by the absence of contradictory information being heard by them. This is the very definition of effective propaganda.
60 million people died as a result of that war. A lot of people died from all groups. There is no evidence to indicate that there was a purposeful attempt to make those deaths disproportionately large among the Jews.
The number of European Jews actually increased over that period of time, and the number that later were missing from Europe can be accounted for by the number that showed up in Palestine.

The germans were not happy campers after WWI. They acted way rash and got all try-hard and crazy and killed a bunch of people and tried to expand their empire.

The German colonial aspirations in Africa were stopped by the end of WW I, so I'm not sure what you mean by empire, unless you are referring to things like the Anschluss.

I believe it involves the occult.

That is another story, based on some persons in the party being linked to the Thule Society.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

No, this is more addlepated nonsense. Ignorant addlepated nonsense at that.

I'm afraid not, Greek Mythology is fundamental to what we know as Graeco-Roman (better spelling?) or simply modern astrology. Without the myths, no "documentation" for why planet Venus and Mars influence us the way they do in their different aspects and so on. These old myths actually hold quite a bit of information relating to the interpretation of certain planetary phenomena, mapping events both geographically, but also connect them to certain dates and ages.

The Greeks named some constellations after some mythological characters, but not all of them. Where are Hades, Demeter and Persephone in the sky? Where is Hephaistos?

The Greeks also invented modern astrology around the time of the fall of the Roman Republic and the entry of the Age of Pisces. Astrology is of no use without Homer and the Greek myths. The corpus of these myths is Astrology. All the archetypes of Greek mythology represent the well of different aspects and influences, making up the inner workings of-- and works to tune or substantiate the teachings of-- Astrology.

The constellations of the Zodiac predate the Greeks however. Which is evident in ancient Mesopotamian, Vedic and Egyptian writings and art. In the Bible, Virgo (The Virgin) and Gemini (the Twin Kings) are described in the prophecies of Isaiah, relating to the oracle of the birth of his son. How his lady will get pregnant in Virgo (The Virgin) and give birth 9 months later in late Gemini (end of the reign of the twin kings) to a boy named Immanuel. Try telling a Christian that, or a Jew for that matter, and they typically go all hoof and fangs on you straight away.

Thing is, Astrology is older than the Flood Mythos and truly ancient, to the extent we no longer know the exact origins of or original mythology behind the twelve main constellations of the Greek Zodiac. If you ask me, in Genesis, the 'Name of God' that Adam's grandson Enosh's contemporaries worshipped, is about the birth of astrology. According to the Book of Enoch astrology and knowledge of the stars and how to interpret the planets' cycles and conjunctions 7c. was taught to man during the reign of an angel called Barack

The old emperors ruled under the pretence they were selected by God and carried out the will or lit. the orders and commands of the gods. The movements of the stars were carefully interpreted by elaborate schools and priesthoods, according to a strict theology and ritualistic liturgy evident in these mythologies-- all sorted out according to ancient oaths and orders, under blind faith that 'As Above-- So Below'. Needless to say, knowing how to interpret the stars could be crucial in order to predict the movements of armies and when and how an enemy adhering to these ancients magical orders would attack. Ref. Daniel 11 again. Daniel predicted the exact movements of Alexander the Great's armies and the grandiose and decadent Antiochus IV as he would charge against the Ptolemys and later seek to invade the Holy Land, their exact whereabouts and plans, important battles and troop manoeuvres-- centuries before the fact.

Why are the twelve signs of the Zodiac not named after the twelve Olympians?

The reason there are twelve Olympians, is that Jupiter (Zeus) takes twelve years to orbit the Sun, and each year in the cycle has it's own "personality" given by these Olympians. If you mark off Jupiter's (Zeus') position against the backdrop of stars at the same date and time for twelve years in a row, you would draw a Dodecagram (twelve-sided star) which is normally simplified into a hexagram (Star of David), where the six points are effectually halved, drawing out the base geometry of the twelve-hour rotary clock.

The «Twelve Olympians» to me are direct parallels to Chinese astrology's twelve arch astrological beasts where each one is assigned to specific years in a twelve year cycle and a larger 60 year cycle. The «Twelve Olympians» all seem to correspond pretty accurately to the Chinese annual astrological totems.

originally posted by: rukia
a reply to: jmdewey60
And with regards to that guy saying poland didn't have an army--maybe he was mistaken and really talking about Stalingrad or something? lol

Hitler and Stalin were allies before the the start of WW2 (they both had a warped vision of Marxism they were working with). One called it Nationalistic Socialism (fascism) the other called it Communism (totalitarian dictatorship, fascism). The agreement was to attack Poland on two fronts east and west and divide the spoils, essentially cutting its borders in half (each takes one half). This happened. Hitler opened its eastern front and attacked the Soviet positions to the east; won this and then proceeded to Stalingrad. What jmdewey60 was observing was the Nazis fighting Stalin's Russian army in Poland (I guess there was a falling out). Both regimes had agreed to a pact to divide/divy up the world between themselves, once they figured out how neutralize their other FRIENDs within the Axis powers, Japan and Italy. Stalin's NKVD forces (KGB) taught the SS how to build concentration camps, mass murder (been doing it to their own people for years). 7 million Ukrainians starved to death alone at Stalin's orders. Getting back to the 'warped version of Marxism'. Karl Marx thought 'unproductive people should be gotten rid of'. Stalin and Hitler took that idea form to another level of "racial cleansing" (this is why they got along so well IN THE BEGINNING; sing along with me 'getting to know you getting to know all about you').

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: vethumanbeing

This so sad, (your point of view) as Poland did not have a standing army at all; they were trying to live their lives simply and honestly. I guess their God failed to inform them; "you are about to be invaded by Fascist Nazis that will murder your" RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. They would probably have responded in this way "NO WAY; why a human do such a thing to another fellow human?". Gods response "They are not human, they are monsters".

Where are you getting this? Have you ever thought about doing some study into actual history rather than going with TV contrived pseudo-history?
Do you actually believe that Poland did not have an army?

What is depicted is actual Polish men on horseback with sabers charging German tanks.

Seriously?
And you think that Poland did not have any tanks of their own?
I would suggest pulling yourself away from the TV long enough to do some study in actual books.

I actually know they did not have a standing army.