QUESTION to ALL Atheists!

a reply to: TechUnique

Yes I agree trials and tribulations build character.

But thanks for missing the point of that post entirely.

Which was God's obvious role in manipulating peoples free will and also making them believe lies which ultimately sends them to hell. So much for that god-damned (literally) character.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
IF just for one single day no one starved to death, no one was beaten to death, no one died because they were too poor to pay for treatment, no one was killed because of their beliefs, no one was persecuted because of who they love...I think that would be a good start.

originally posted by: TechUnique
If God was to just 'stop those things from happening' we wouldn't have free will.

So God is willing to manipulate free will when it comes to turning people against him, but not when it comes to helping people?

Anyway, I don't want to be blamed for causing another thread drift and this stuff isn't the topic of the OP so let's just agree to disagree and move on.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

and lets not forget the TARDIS....WAY bigger on the inside....

is this proof that the Doctor is god?

also.....speaking of the ark story....how about the fish?

according to calculations, the kinetic energy released by the rain, would have been enough to cause the oceans to boil...this would have killed all aquatic life, not to mention, steam-cooked the occupants of the arc...

science is kind of a bitch that way..

also...where did the water come from, and where did it go afterward?

originally posted by: TechUnique
I.e, the proof is personal.

i.e, it's entirely opinion, and not based on anything provable..

very convenient, when justifying circular logic..

a reply to: TechUnique

there's no change of heart...

there's opinion, and fact......they are separate. when you assert that your opinion is fact though..that's a problem..

that's what you've been doing.

i have no issue with you having an opinion, it's when you assert that we're all wrong, and "manipulated by the devil", because we don't hold the same opinion, that i, and others, take exception.

a reply to: TechUnique

actually.....those are fairly recent developments...

religion is the oldest, and dare i say, most effective, system of control ever devised by man...

THOUSANDS of years, and there are still billions of people quaking in their boots, blindly adhering to the alleged wishes of one deity or another...and indoctrinating future generations to do the same...

yes, it is the most effective intimidation/incentive-based confidence scam ever...

You say this TECH :

"Most of your questions were rhetorical and the others have already been answered although not directly, with my other posts. I.e, the proof is personal."

I say this :

Well... lets put it this way... this question is not rhetorical... This is a question asking for proof... SOLID proof :

Can you provide us with non personal proof that god exists in this modern day and not only what was written in the bible?

It is easy to say to everyone that you have personal proof on a keyboard... prove it with witness accounts and why not photographic or filmed evidence? (After all, we are now in 2014 and I am sure that the all knowing and wise god can adapt no?)

What you have written so far has been typed out hundreds and thousands of times here on ATS and up until this day not one believer is capable of giving ATSers here solid proof that your god as you see him/her exists.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I've got another question for you guys.

Do you want there to be a God or would you prefer that there wasn't a god, and why? I'm assuming that you will say something along the lines of, 'No, because if there was a God why is the world so bad?' but I could be wrong.

I am genuinely interested otherwise I wouldn't ask. Whoever thinks I am trolling is completely misunderstanding me. Just because what I am saying is making something uncomfortable or because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm trolling you.

Or maybe you think I'm making up the Christian thing? I've made a few threads over the years talking about my faith so that's definitely not it. The amount of time and effort I've invested in these threads isn't for nothing. It takes a lot to respond to EVERYONE when pretty much everyone is disagreeing with you and putting words in your mouth without actually quoting you.

So please stop jumping to massive conclusions. Believe it or not I actually am a nice guy and I know this is irrelevant now but I DON'T HATE GAY PEOPLE. I have a ton of gay friends, when I say a ton I'm exaggerating but at least 4 who I could definitely say are my actual friends not just acquaintances. I love them just as much as anyone else. Sorry I realize that was off topic but I didn't want to say that in the other threads cos it's just like when people say to me 'I'M NOT RACIST YOU BLACK ****, I'VE GOT BLACK FRIENDS".

There's been a lot of misunderstanding and this is at least half my fault. For that I'm sorry. It is very hard to keep up with so many people at once! Luckily I type like an MKULTRA monkey on crack.

originally posted by: Rodinus



Most of your questions were rhetorical and the others have already been answered although not directly, with my other posts. I.e, the proof is personal.

Well... lets put it this way... this question is not rhetorical... This is a question asking for proof... SOLID proof :

Can you provide us with non personal proof that god exists in this modern day and not only what was written in the bible?

It is easy to say to everyone that you have personal proof on a keyboard... prove it with witness accounts and why not photographic or filmed evidence? (After all, we are now in 2014 and I am sure that the all knowing and wise god can adapt no?)

What you have written so far has been typed out hundreds and thousands of times here on ATS and up until this day not one believer is capable of giving ATSers here solid proof that your god as you see him/her exists.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I'm sorry, but no.
I can't hand you a peer reviewed paper that has a documentary on the discovery channel.
Sorry if that seemed incredibly sarcastic, it wasn't, I just couldn't think of any other way to convey my point.

God is above those things. He can reveal himself to you in ways that can't even be described by the English language, let alone quantified with scientific measures.

the real question is, do we NEED a god. you are so stuck on the idea that we must have one.
even if there was one and no one was in debate over that, like in theory, the world you imagine someday.
we have yet to need him for anything. he gives us his grace (unconditional gifts), yet threatens us to horrible punishment if we dont acknowledge him.


that is a very ungodly attitude. a real creator and knower of all, wouldnt care.

How is it convenient? Convenient for what, me?

I haven't gained anything from this discussion, that is the fruits of my labor.

originally posted by: TechUnique
a reply to: WhiteAlice

The 10 commandments didn't work did they? People didn't listen.

there's no proof that they were real, or that if they were, they were "divinely inspired"

Jesus being sent down was another chance.

there is no proof of the biblical jesus.

The end times being written down and coming to fruition in front of your very eyes is another chance.

self-fulfilling prophecy. there is no proof that any of it is "divinely inspired" if it was written that this is what will happen, then there is no way to stop it, there is no free will. can't have it both ways.

write something, and wait long enough....somewhere, at some point in time, that thing will most likely happen. it does not prove "divine inspiration", or any ability to foretell future events.

Me talking to you now is another chance

right, because you're THAT important...

and you will get many more before your time is up.

i'm sure we will all encounter many more self-aggrandizing individuals with an opinion, in our lifetimes...

originally posted by: Bisman
the real question is, do we NEED a god. you are so stuck on the idea that we must have one.
even if there was one and no one was in debate over that, like in theory, the world you imagine someday.
we have yet to need him for anything. he gives us his grace (unconditional gifts), yet threatens us to horrible punishment if we dont acknowledge him.


that is a very ungodly attitude. a real creator and knower of all, wouldnt care.

You NEED a God to have been created and be here but you don't NEED him after the fact. That's not to say that it's not in your best interests to have faith in him.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TechUnique

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating?

Sure this may change my view of things.
How about the reverse question.
What would it take for you to change your opinion?

And for the record I am agnostic

One thing that could possibly sway my opinion would be;

When there is a one world government. If there is no push towards a one world faith and Christians AREN'T tracked down and murdered within the 10 years that a one world government is established..

THEN I would begin having doubts. As it stands, my personal proof lies above anything any one person could present as 'evidence'.

EDIT TO ADD: I guess an easier way to look at it would be;

If some of the prophesy in revelations comes true but some of it indisputably CAN'T happen anymore, due to political landscape or WHATEVER. I would definitely have doubts. But as far as today I have yet to be dissuaded from the truth in the book of Revelations and the book of Daniel.

Really interesting stuff when you don't look at it as a fairytale and give it a fair chance to compare to the days we live in. I think a lot of the problem is translation. Gods word get's lost in translation so unless you have spiritual discernment and a true faith in God, things can easily slip by until the whole page just looks like babble that doesn't make any sense.

It DOES make sense. It really does. We've been manipulated into having 'Goggles' on the second we hear the term religion.

OK, so you believe that the book of revelations is true, because it comes close to describing current events? How do you know that the events aren't being created to give the illusion of this? It is written in a book...not hard to read it then manipulate events to coincide - keep everyone scared and believeing...and paying their taxes at that. How do you know that similar events haven't happen already, long ago? Every day can't been glitter and sunshine, is it just religious fear mongering? I think so. Good old propaganda at its finest.

To believe as such, is to believe blindly and is only possible when people choose not use it their abilities of critical thinking to contemplate something not proven with a scientific method.

Beliefes are built on our memories, as we grow up and learn about the world around us. So really, what you see (or hear from others) is what you believe. If you spent most your childhood in a church, chances are you buy the story hook, line and sinker. And if you didn't but you still buy it, you have still likely experienced something to lead you down that path of blind faith.

I have never understood why people put their faith in something in which does not exist, before they put faith in their own self, which obviously does exist.

I'm am an atheist (at least that's what religous people would label me as) because I just simply cannot put all my eggs in one basket. I prefer to not submit my life to some random dude in the sky. Just too hokey pokey for me, as it lacks significant logic and imagination.

a reply to: TechUnique

ya' know...i addressed this in your OTHER evolution thread...

the translation to latin had nothing to do with keeping the truth from the people....it was about maintaining the power of the church, and of kings....

it allowed them to tell the people that god wanted whatever they wanted the people to believe he wanted....keep them ignorant, and dependent, and control is easy..

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: TechUnique

actually.....those are fairly recent developments...

religion is the oldest, and dare i say, most effective, system of control ever devised by man...

THOUSANDS of years, and there are still billions of people quaking in their boots, blindly adhering to the alleged wishes of one deity or another...and indoctrinating future generations to do the same...

yes, it is the most effective intimidation/incentive-based confidence scam ever...

Yes indeed. Except Jesus never intended for the faith to be used in this way. MAN used religion for control and created the fake religions to clash. Divide and conquer is so true but it's so much more than that.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Bisman
the real question is, do we NEED a god. you are so stuck on the idea that we must have one.
even if there was one and no one was in debate over that, like in theory, the world you imagine someday.
we have yet to need him for anything. he gives us his grace (unconditional gifts), yet threatens us to horrible punishment if we dont acknowledge him.


that is a very ungodly attitude. a real creator and knower of all, wouldnt care.

You NEED a God to have been created and be here but you don't NEED him after the fact. That's not to say that it's not in your best interests to have faith in him.

Who created God? If God exists, based on this logic, it would need a God to create it as well... And so on and so on, ad infinitum.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Rodinus



Most of your questions were rhetorical and the others have already been answered although not directly, with my other posts. I.e, the proof is personal.

Well... lets put it this way... this question is not rhetorical... This is a question asking for proof... SOLID proof :

Can you provide us with non personal proof that god exists in this modern day and not only what was written in the bible?

It is easy to say to everyone that you have personal proof on a keyboard... prove it with witness accounts and why not photographic or filmed evidence? (After all, we are now in 2014 and I am sure that the all knowing and wise god can adapt no?)

What you have written so far has been typed out hundreds and thousands of times here on ATS and up until this day not one believer is capable of giving ATSers here solid proof that your god as you see him/her exists.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I'm sorry, but no.
I can't hand you a peer reviewed paper that has a documentary on the discovery channel.
Sorry if that seemed incredibly sarcastic, it wasn't, I just couldn't think of any other way to convey my point.

God is above those things. He can reveal himself to you in ways that can't even be described by the English language, let alone quantified with scientific measures.

Don't apologise for not being able to supply proof.

God still has not stopped all the evil things going on around the world since the dawn of time and only pops up every now and again to the "chosen few" sorry if that sounds incredibly sarcastic.

Have a good day and thank you for answering my question.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

a reply to: Sparkymedic

I used to think exactly like this! Then I realized that it would be impossible to do it on such a scale. I guess a lot of it depends on interpretation and we probably wouldn't agree to any extent.

a reply to: TechUnique

i'm fine either way. if there is a "god" then he/she/it/wtfever has a LOT of explaining to do...if there isn't one, nothing changes, and i'm not surprised...

i just hate when people assert something as fact, that has no basis other than personal opinion and beliefs...

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: TechUnique

ya' know...i addressed this in your OTHER evolution thread...

the translation to latin had nothing to do with keeping the truth from the people....it was about maintaining the power of the church, and of kings....

it allowed them to tell the people that god wanted whatever they wanted the people to believe he wanted....keep them ignorant, and dependent, and control is easy..

Oh because you know all this for a fact?

Where's your proof and why is it proof of what you are saying?

Because you're definitely not just suggesting it, you are stating it as if it is obvious.