QUESTION to ALL Atheists!

a reply to: TechUnique

ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable.....

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

jesus christ, you are one of the biggest trolls i have ever seen here...

a reply to: TechUnique

and that right way, is whatever way you see it...

yeah, yeah, yeah, same old crap...

i've been in situations where honestly, i shouldn't have made it out...i've lost people, it didn't make sense...guess what, i'm still not willing to attribute any of it to "god", because i have zero reason to..

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: TechUnique

ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable.....

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

jesus christ, you are one of the biggest trolls i have ever seen here...

"ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable....."

Come on now, if I was trolling you I wouldn't be red in the face. Furthermore that comment you made is more akin to trolling than anything I have said.

a reply to: TechUnique

Well as far as omnipotence and omniscience, they don't work.

God can't be both. And omnipotence is paradoxical all by itself.

Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Well, see, that still doesn't bother me because I don't really believe in any form of afterlife either. I could be wrong on that but I don't see the sense of why we'd have souls at all. Anyways, because of that, I was already pretty much expecting an permanent death when I die as that's probably what is going to happen. Who knows though, something could surprise me but if I get a permanent death then, well, I was right then, eh? Backwards logic.

I do often wonder how they work around the whole Ten Commandments issue in today's world though. A person can very likely go through life without murdering, stealing, having other gods above him, practicing idolatry, bearing false witness, and so on but some of them, I dunno, if the 10 C's are a matter of godly judgment than most people are going to fry because they ended up doing work on the sabbath. Or is it all just "believe in Jesus or else" these days since Jesus died for our sins so that we can break the 10 C's and well, get away with murder without godly judgment because Jesus forgave us.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: TechUnique

Well as far as omnipotence and omniscience, they don't work.

God can't be both. And omnipotence is paradoxical all by itself.

Can God create a rock so heavy he can't lift it?

Elaborate.

Gods word get's lost in translation so unless you have spiritual discernment and a true faith in God, things can easily slip by until the whole page just looks like babble that doesn't make any sense.

So, you have to believe to believe? If God wants people to follow him, why make his word so hard to understand. Why does there have to be translation, why can't it just be read and understood, without someone to tell you what it says? I've seen it a thousand times, "Well they wrote this, but it means this".
To change my mind, he'll have to do something big. Plain as day for all the world to see, a miracle that could only be done by a supreme being. Without giving me the "free will" excuse or the "mysterious ways" tell me why he has let all the suffering, misery and hate go on? We are supposed to be his children, yes? Is it ok if I let my kids do things to hurt others while I stand by and watch? No? Then why does he?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

in addition to that, there's THE question...

There are many valid reasons people question religion in general. I used to consider myself Christian, but that was probably because of my upbringing in the USA. Now I'm more agnostic.



The one point that really has me at odds is the whole proselytizing to reach "salvation." If no man can get to heaven but through Christ, then doesn't that mean the whole world who didn't get the message about Christ went to hell, correct?

For example, let's take North America and the Native Americans living there at the time. According to the bible, if you don't believe in Christ you won't have eternal life. This means that for at least 1000 years, all of the Natives went to hell out of ignorance, correct?



And to answer your question on proof... Let's begin with the Christian religion agreeing with each other and coming together as one, with no denominations. If the Christian God can manage his own religion to do that, we're off to a good start.

Why are there denominations to begin with? Is God telling different people different things?

a reply to: DAVID64

ya' know....this reminds me of something...

hmmm....AH!

"We have to PASS the bill, so we can see what is in it"

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: TechUnique

ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable.....

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

jesus christ, you are one of the biggest trolls i have ever seen here...

"ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable....."

Come on now, if I was trolling you I wouldn't be red in the face. Furthermore that comment you made is more akin to trolling than anything I have said.

Nah, I think that Daedalus' description of events is pretty spot on, especially this part:

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

That is a very apt description here from my point of view. I think I'd also add that you might have discovered that you just bit off more than you could chew and that's probably why you're taking a derogatory tone with all of us troublesome non-believers. Principle of charity really in that maybe you were being genuine but it just went bad for you.

a reply to: TechUnique

If God is all powerful then he can do anything. If God can do anything, then he should be able to create a rock so heavy he can't lift it. However, once the rock is created he should be able to lift it since he is supposed to be all powerful. So he can't create a rock too heavy for him to lift thus he is not omnipotent.
Omnipotence paradox

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: TechUnique

If God is all powerful then he can do anything. If God can do anything, then he should be able to create a rock so heavy he can't lift it. However, once the rock is created he should be able to lift it since he is all powerful. So he can't create a rock too heavy for him to lift thus he is not omnipotent.
Omnipotence paradox

Judging by your hypothetical 'logic' he could make the rock, then destroy it into 2 pieces and lift them both separately. That's as much proof that you're wrong as yours is that I am wrong.

a reply to: TechUnique

It's just an example of how omnipotence is a paradox.. Here's another:

Can God create something so small he can't see it?

originally posted by: WhiteAlice

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: TechUnique

ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable.....

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

jesus christ, you are one of the biggest trolls i have ever seen here...

"ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable....."

Come on now, if I was trolling you I wouldn't be red in the face. Furthermore that comment you made is more akin to trolling than anything I have said.

Nah, I think that Daedalus' description of events is pretty spot on, especially this part:

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

That is a very apt description here from my point of view. I think I'd also add that you might have discovered that you just bit off more than you could chew and that's probably why you're taking a derogatory tone with all of us troublesome non-believers. Principle of charity really in that maybe you were being genuine but it just went bad for you.

I disagree on so many levels. The funny thing is, people who are at least agnostic or have a faith other than in Christ, can see that you guys are the ones being jerks in these threads.

Yet you all say I'm the one being horrible. Of course you all agree with each other because you're all peas in a pod. I'm the outcast, that's the difference.

Have you not seen platos analogy of the cave?


You guys are trapped in a logic cycle based on lies and deceit. Satan has done a tremendous job of making people ungodly.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: TechUnique

It's just an example of how omnipotence is a paradox.. Here's another:

Can God create something so small he can't see it?

You are judging God based on YOUR understanding of the universe. How would you know what having those 2 abilities would be like in reality?

Just because in your mind, something would be impossible because of having those 2 powers.. What's to say that that's not completely irrelevant when you're omnipotent and omnipresent...

Do you see what I mean? There's a paradox in YOUR thinking.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: TechUnique

If God is all powerful then he can do anything. If God can do anything, then he should be able to create a rock so heavy he can't lift it. However, once the rock is created he should be able to lift it since he is supposed to be all powerful. So he can't create a rock too heavy for him to lift thus he is not omnipotent.
Omnipotence paradox

Had to LOL at the wit of some of those examples of nice logic. Good find, that site!

a reply to: TechUnique

Well, that was uncalled for. No-one I have seen here has called you horrible or such a thing.

Maybe you feel uncomfortable that there are counterarguments against religion which might be too difficult (to avoid saying "impossible") to disprove?


Really, all I get from discussions with religious people is "ugh, you are heathens! You shall not speak to me, again! Unvile creatures!".

Just because we break their idols and ideas. Sorry (yes, with a hint of sarcasm).

i dont think it can happen for me, under any circumstances.
if i witnessed an amazing life questioning "miracle", my first assumption isnt that it was a god or anything supernatural or spiritual.
i will assume right away that this is advanced technology from an advanced race. even if a single entity calling itself a god claimed to be such, i would still not assume its a god since that is not a very omnipotent way to act.

if a part of me could even be converted with a few tricks, then i would already have been a chrsitian/other religion because i would already have been foolish enough.

originally posted by: TechUnique
What would be proof of God existing for you?

IF just for one single day no one starved to death, no one was beaten to death, no one died because they were too poor to pay for treatment, no one was killed because of their beliefs, no one was persecuted because of who they love...I think that would be a good start.