QUESTION to ALL Atheists!

What would be proof of God existing for you?

What would have to happen for you to go 'OH.. yeah, ok'

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating? Or would you 'Just know'?

Please answer any and all of those questions, I'm trying to understand the psychology of an adamant atheist.

No hate in this thread please.

Well i guess i am not an atheist, more of an agnostic, i don't even know anymore, the definitions are mixed up and redefined so often i stopped caring about what label i fall under.
I don't ask for miracles or favors, i don't need them and i am not sure i even deserve him.
But if he wants to be taken seriously, he needs to be more proactive.
potentially hundreds of thousands of religions out there...you are assigned one at random depending on geographical location, and if you win the soul lottery you go to the good place, but if you were born in the wrong place, you spend eternity in some underground lava pit with demons doing bad stuff to you.
If there truly is one god, then he needs to interact with us, because we have no way of knowing him or seeing him, no miracles, it's more than enough a voice that can be heard throughout the whole world saying whatever the correct path is.
Very simple task for someone that created an entire universe in about a week isn't it?
but to be real, he created the whole universe but couldn't write down a first hand account of it, he needed to posses people with the holy spirit to do the writing...i guess creating everything out of nothing can give you carpal tunnel...

a reply to: TechUnique

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating?

Sure this may change my view of things.
How about the reverse question.
What would it take for you to change your opinion?

And for the record I am agnostic

I'm just wondering.. What proof would you refer to to solidify your beliefs?

Nothing transcends reality.

Everything that is, exists in reality.

If it exists, then it is here just the same as the rest of us.



There is no magical entity in another part of reality that we can't access.

Perhaps there are hyper-evolved species with superior technology, but not Gods.

Anything that calls itself a God, or anyone who would call anything else a God, is deluded, and disrespecting everything that exists.


( I am a Solipsist. )

a reply to: TechUnique

No hate here . God would not only have to enter the room but do so via walking through a wall or something . Failing that the miracle would want to be pretty good .

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: TechUnique

IS there anything that would do that? If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating?

Sure this may change my view of things.
How about the reverse question.
What would it take for you to change your opinion?

And for the record I am agnostic

One thing that could possibly sway my opinion would be;

When there is a one world government. If there is no push towards a one world faith and Christians AREN'T tracked down and murdered within the 10 years that a one world government is established..

THEN I would begin having doubts. As it stands, my personal proof lies above anything any one person could present as 'evidence'.

EDIT TO ADD: I guess an easier way to look at it would be;

If some of the prophesy in revelations comes true but some of it indisputably CAN'T happen anymore, due to political landscape or WHATEVER. I would definitely have doubts. But as far as today I have yet to be dissuaded from the truth in the book of Revelations and the book of Daniel.

Really interesting stuff when you don't look at it as a fairytale and give it a fair chance to compare to the days we live in. I think a lot of the problem is translation. Gods word get's lost in translation so unless you have spiritual discernment and a true faith in God, things can easily slip by until the whole page just looks like babble that doesn't make any sense.

It DOES make sense. It really does. We've been manipulated into having 'Goggles' on the second we hear the term religion.

The answer is quite simple, reveal yourself to the world, and thus ending the debate and stopping all religious conflict. A God should be able to do this if it was able to create everything.



a reply to: TechUnique

a reply to: TechUnique

Why would you be tracked down and murdered ?????????

a reply to: TechUnique

As it stands, my personal proof lies above anything any one person could present as 'evidence'.

But yet you will continue to ask others to change their beliefs.
Can you not see why people will not be receptive to that?
You ridicule those that don't think like you for not being open minded enough but you your self are absolutely closed minded about it.

a reply to: TechUnique

So you would be ok with a universal faith? Unless they don't agree with you?

That's a tall order.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: TechUnique

No hate here . God would not only have to enter the room but do so via walking through a wall or something . Failing that the miracle would want to be pretty good .

But then if you offered this 'Proof' to someone one of the following would happen;
You would be ridiculed and mocked.
People would think you hallucinated it.
People would think you were making it up.

Or all of the above. If I were to tell you my personal proof you would not believe me. To briefly outline it;

God has saved my life multiple times. I should have been dead through a drug overdose it was rare I survived with how serious it was. I woke up fresh as a daisy. ANYONE who went through what I went through and somehow managed to survive should be BRAINDEAD.

I have been in a few serious car crashes, not a scratch on me. I have avoided prison so narrowly in my short life. I have been warned by God multiple times not to go somewhere or do something, all throughout my life.

You know what happens when that happens? Something bad. I always avoid something bad when I listen to God telling me something. Similarly when I think something is a bad idea but God tells me to crack on anyway, something AMAZING happens.

On top of that there have been some AMAZING coincidences throughout my life. I can't say because it would be getting even more personal than what I already have.

To put it this way, without God I would be dead. Without God I would not be here talking to you. What you guys don't realize is the proof is in the pudding.

In other words, you have to have faith for God to appear to you. If you don't have faith you are lost. How can you find anything if you are lost?

Sorry to get philosophical I know you guys want PROOF. You have to seek it. I promise you, if you open your mind to the real God and believe that IF he exists, you WANT to know him, He WILL come! Pray about it, not hypothetically. You don't wait outside someones house without knocking and expect them to just be there at the window eagerly waiting your arrival. Yeah, dogs might do that for you but chances are your mother won't even do that, why would God? Weird analogy I know, sorry but It's hard for me to explain how I feel spiritually in a way that you guys will understand. I genuinely want you to understand, these threads aren't troll threads as someone suggested.

You don't have to give up Science, see it as an experiment. The parameters are as follows;

Assume that what you are doing COULD WORK. Don't do it whilst not believing that there is a possibility otherwise it is pointless. See the praying as an instrument you are testing, you want it to work but you've never seen it work and you're not quite sure.

Under this premise you are still a Scientist but you are willing to give God a chance IF he exists. Pray every night for at least a few days and genuinely HOPE that God will appear to you whilst you are genuinely asking him to IF he exists.

Then keep an eye out throughout your day to day life.

Remember, God is above and beyond time and the law of physics. He can make things happen around you that you would NEVER be able to quantify or explain. Complete and utter anomalies that no one will believe but YOU will KNOW.

God will make his presence known in the most unimaginable ways. It's different for everyone, it is a personal relationship with God. There isn't a peer reviewed scientific paper on it I'm afraid.

But alas. Give it a go if you're a real scientist. If you were a real scientist you would try anything once just in case I'm actually right. You can't prove I'm not right can you?

a reply to: TechUnique

What would be proof of God existing for you?

What would have to happen for you to go 'OH.. yeah, ok'

IS there anything that would do that?

All sorts of things could work. How about a one on one conversation with a question and answer session. The deity could even give a mathematical proof way beyond me to answer one of our biggest questions in the sciences. If it is all powerful then it can transport me through time to witness for myself the beginning of time, earth, creation or even jesus himself. There all kinds of stuff a deity could do to convince me but I gave a few examples there.

That would be for me to go...OK..no more questions asked.

There are plenty of things that do not involve a divine interference that would start to get me to think maybe the bible is true. Lets say fossil evidence of a world wide flood where a fish was swimming up through the layers of sediment. Finding dino and human fossil together. Basically supporting evidence that can stand up to scientific scrutiny.

If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating? Or would you 'Just know'?

That would definitely startle me but I would be checking into a hospital and have them do a full work up on me to make sure there was no brain tumor or poisoning causing hallucinations. Strangely enough something similar to that has happened to me before minus the divine but full on auditory and visual hallucinations of things that just couldn't be. I had been poisoned.

OK so I answered your questions.

By using pure definitions, God is an extra terrestrial, an Alien if you will.

It is going to be damn hard to separate God from an alien.

200 years ago, a high powered torch may have been enough.

Now, I don't know. Materializing in a lounge room may just engender a Wow response from Sci Fi fans as they relate it to a transporter beam. Floating in the air may just be an anti gravity device and the same with walking on water.

Then God has to get passed the millions who would be looking for CGI or Holographic projectors.

The Holo Deck from Star Trek is hard to beat.

Even just 'knowing' could be viewed as advanced telepathy.

Right now, the vast majority of 'miracles' could be accomplished with modern technology.

Now after all those problems, we have to discern God from the anti-Christ and that in itself is a conundrum.

How do we poor fools know which is which.

It is going to be a hard sell.

A trip on a space ship would do it for me I think. But then he would be an Alien named God.

P

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: TechUnique

What would be proof of God existing for you?

What would have to happen for you to go 'OH.. yeah, ok'

IS there anything that would do that?

All sorts of things could work. How about a one on one conversation with a question and answer session. The deity could even give a mathematical proof way beyond me to answer one of our biggest questions in the sciences. If it is all powerful then it can transport me through time to witness for myself the beginning of time, earth, creation or even jesus himself. There all kinds of stuff a deity could do to convince me but I gave a few examples there.

That would be for me to go...OK..no more questions asked.

There are plenty of things that do not involve a divine interference that would start to get me to think maybe the bible is true. Lets say fossil evidence of a world wide flood where a fish was swimming up through the layers of sediment. Finding dino and human fossil together. Basically supporting evidence that can stand up to scientific scrutiny.

If God physically entered your room, performed a miracle and proclaimed that Jesus was his son and rose from the dead would you believe it or would you think you were hallucinating? Or would you 'Just know'?

That would definitely startle me but I would be checking into a hospital and have them do a full work up on me to make sure there was no brain tumor or poisoning causing hallucinations. Strangely enough something similar to that has happened to me before minus the divine but full on auditory and visual hallucinations of things that just couldn't be. I had been poisoned.

OK so I answered your questions.

Thanks for answering.

What about the fact that the Bible was 'scientific' to an extent we didn't see for YEARS after?

The bible is serious

a reply to: TechUnique what God are talkin about?
One of the many Greek Gods? The numerous Gods of Hindu mythology? Your going to have to be more specific. greek mythology has Zeus as God of all Gods. What proof would you need of his existence?

a reply to: TechUnique

I don't think anything would convince me. If God physically entered my room and performed some miracles, and proclaimed Jesus was his risen son I would believe it was a hallucination of some kind. If he was willing to chat for awhile and talk about my numerous reasons for being an atheist, and if he was able to clear those things up for me then that would go a long way towards convincing me. If I was to be convinced I would still not worship him though. Personally I think he is morally bankrupt.

Some of the reasons I am an atheist:
Numerous contradictions in the Bible.
Numerous denominations of Christianity in disagreement.
Lack of historical evidence for many of the claims.
Impossibility of many of the claims (e.g. Noah's Ark).
God's paradoxical attributes (e.g. Omnipotence & Omniscience).
God's very human characteristics prove he isn't perfect or all loving.
God's moral fiber leaves a lot to be desired. (See my signature)
God's relationship with Satan.
Numerous failed prophecies and predictions.
Similarities with older religions/myths/legends etc.
Absence of any objective proof that prayer works.
Texts about Jesus were written way after he may or may not have lived.
Every generation believes it's the "end times" but time keeps ticking.
Some Christians are willing to lie to spread the faith (e.g. Martin Luther).
Numerous holy wars and inquisitions all in the name of God.

Those, for starters, are why I'm 100% certain the Christian God does not exist.

a reply to: TechUnique

I have seen most of those before with thee actual scripture beside them and they are taking some great liberties with a lot of those trying to make them fit.

Other so called proofs are common sense like blood is the source of life and health. What do you think it takes for someone to figure that out. Maybe someone bleeding to death. That source doesn't acknowledge the biblical shape of the earth. You know the disc shape in other words flat. They had a word for sphere back then but didn't use it.

I have looked into most of those claims before and I found most lacking or fraudulent in the way they are being presented. I am not going to try and convince you I just suggest you look them up yourself.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
a reply to: TechUnique what God are talkin about?
One of the many Greek Gods? The numerous Gods of Hindu mythology? Your going to have to be more specific. greek mythology has Zeus as God of all Gods. What proof would you need of his existence?

Yahweh father of Yeshua Hamashiach.

AKA, the Christian God who sent his son down to die for our sins. (Jesus)

a reply to: TechUnique
Hiya OP,

Unfortunately you've made a presupposition which cancels the relevance of the questions you're positing.

adamant

/ˈadəm(ə)nt/

adjective
1.
utterly unyielding in attitude or opinion in spite of all appeals, urgings, etc.

2.
too hard to cut, break, or pierce.

Source

You're particularly asking 'adamant' atheists to answer your question which by definition excludes people you consider 'reasonable'. I could easily ask in response, what do I as an atheist have to do to convince you I'm not 'adamant' in my views?

If the answer is 'convert to Christianity' then you have found the centre of the confusion about the position of atheists.

Hope it helps.