Breaking the Strong Delusion: Our Morality vs. God's Morality

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

And their faith was enough to get them to heaven. Now, if we love God, we SHOULD do the works. Not, we MUST do the works. I can't even argue this with you because you like to strip away 1/4 of the Bible. Can't do it, won't do it.

You can't argue with it because Paul can not trump Jesus.... Tragic eh

What you did to the least of these, You have done to me...

These people had Faith... but their works were lacking...

Your theology is purely Paulian thought.... "those who do not work, they are justified by their faith"

You make his teaching Null and void by following Paul and not taking up your cross....

Its a shame so many so called Christians don't understand this

a reply to: graphuto

What I AM saying is that the holy rolling and gibberish speaking is not of God.

Neither is YOUR cult religion or that character from the Old Testament claiming to be the creator of the universe. LOL

a reply to: windword

Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

a reply to: Akragon

What scriptures do you have besides James 2 to back up what you're saying here? My theology isn't "purely Paulian" it's purely Biblical.

a reply to: graphuto

The Bible doesn't prove the Bible to be true.

a reply to: graphuto

Wow. A nice series of red herrings.

Can we talk about Judges 18 and the comparing ritual sexual mutilation, eg, removing foreskins being more important, than protecting innocent Laish?

If God can determine the outcomes of battle based upon such a pagan ritual, surely he can protect an innocent village from slaughter by his own people.

a reply to: graphuto

Everything In the gospels that Jesus said...

Yes... Its biblical Paul... Paulian thought...

Jesus did not teach Faith alone... try reading the gospels instead of Paul

Maybe you'll learn something

As entertaining as the last two pages of "you weren't a real Christian" have been, let's swing it back around to the topic. In a way it helped demonstrate first hand how people interpret scripture, and what it means (or meant) to be a Christian. I want to ask you, graphuto, if you would be willing to address some of the other things that got ignored or forgotten in my reply to you. Specifically things addressed in the lower half of the post (past the video).

The post can be found here.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Well, these people that God sends the delusion to are blasphemers, and false prophets. He doesn't lie to them. They have hardened their hearts against Him and blasphemed his name / spoken incorrectly regarding him, so He simply solidifies this hardening of the heart.

God doesn't LIE to anyone. He does send delusions, and lets/makes people get caught up in their vain imaginations, though, if they deny Him.

What else would you like me to address?

a reply to: Akragon

Sure He did. Take the story of the rich young ruler.

Young ruler says to Jesus that he has followed ALL of the commandments. Jesus basically says to him : Oh, you think your works can save you? You're perfect? Then sell EVERYTHING that you have, give it to the poor, and follow me.

We know from scripture that selling all of your goods isn't necessary for salvation. Lots of Biblical characters were VERY wealthy, and still saved.

a reply to: graphuto

Ideally all that you haven't yet.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Could you re-phrase a question for me to attempt to field for you? I see lots of statements of yours and conjecture, but no solid questions. What would you like me to address?

This is offtopic but James and Paul can both be right.

Faith needs works to not die.

You guys likely seen something or experienced something and it was real, but you did not use it because of doubt, and it died in you.

Faith is not trust, faith is the evidence received in trust and that evidence was a spiritual gift that attached to your spirit and you felt it and it gave you joy, yet you stopped using it, if you ever did - you passed it off as coincidence.

And we all do it. We think, "wow, can't believe that happen", and then you one day do not feel it anymore.

Faith is a gift that you do not earn, it is more of something you ask for and by God's grace, receive. To say it is worked for would be like saying asking for something and receiving it is work, or like saying a penny saved is a penny earned, but you cannot just burry your penny away or it will gain you nothing.

a reply to: Bleeeeep

I have faith. But, today, my faith lies within myself. My higher self is all I need to have faith in, and miracles occur.

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

Sure He did. Take the story of the rich young ruler.

Young ruler says to Jesus that he has followed ALL of the commandments. Jesus basically says to him : Oh, you think your works can save you? You're perfect? Then sell EVERYTHING that you have, give it to the poor, and follow me.

We know from scripture that selling all of your goods isn't necessary for salvation. Lots of Biblical characters were VERY wealthy, and still saved.

Oh dear... You're so wrapped up in Pauls teaching you actually believe Jesus taught Faith alone??

You poor soul...

Lets have a look shall we?

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.


Jesus said sell your possessions and follow me... His possessions were not necessary...

Learning from Jesus was necessary... and what did Jesus teach?

WORKS OF THE SPIRIT... giving without expecting anything in return...

Forgiving... even those who do not deserve it...

Compassion... empathy... Peaceful resolutions... MERCY!! etc etc...

IF one has Faith in him, They do as he asked...

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.



Give up your Paulian thought and come to his words... HE is the way...

Paul is a fraud...

a reply to: graphuto

You claim to be what I've heard dubbed a "Bible Believing Christian". You have made that clear in this thread. In one post you say, "People thinking that others are doing according to the Word of God without actually comparing the Word to what they're doing." And you use the Catholic church as an example and say, "The Catholic Church is another good example of this. This is just one example, but the Bible says not to make graven images, or worship them. Catholics do this routinely. Heck, they went on "The Crusades" and killed tons of people who refused to believe in their heretical doctrine. Yet people still believe that Catholicism is a religion of God and Jesus..."

So I essentially asked if you are living according to the word of God. How many heathens have you killed? God commands you kill heathens in the same parts of the Bible he tells you not to have graven images. Since you seem to believe violating the graven images commandments is a sin, I believe it's safe to assume you also believe not following any of God's other commandments is also sin. So are you a real Christian or aren't you? How many heathens are pushing up daises in your backyard?

a reply to: graphuto

Sure. I have a question?

You inferred YHWH was judging via genocide in the Book of Judges, because of children sacrifice. Correct?

Then why does YHWH of Hosts order the slaughter of suckling babies, eg, newborn babies in 1 Samuel 15:3?

Now, go, and thou hast smitten Amalek, and devoted all that it hath, and thou hast no pity on it, and hast put to death from man unto woman, from infant unto suckling, from ox unto sheep, from camel unto ass

Illustrated version here.

Looks like YHWH didn't give a damn about the children. YHWH simply preferred they were sacrificed on his own Altar of War.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Where does God command us to kill heathens?

You asked if I'm a real Christian or am I not. I believe that I made it abundantly clear, even defining what it means to "be saved."

Show me the verse that commands us to kill heathens. Not a verse where God is explicitly telling Israel to conquer a nation, but a general command by Him : "Kill heathens"

a reply to: graphuto

Maybe read my OP?

a reply to: Not Authorized

God ordering the slaughter of a nation/people and people offering child sacrifice are two different things. God wanted these nations wiped out entirely because they were exceedingly wicked.