Breaking the Strong Delusion: Our Morality vs. God's Morality

a reply to: graphuto

Well that burn in hell good riddance attitude reflects your God nicely, doesn't it?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

It absolutely does.
One can only be begged, and plead with, and shown, so many times.

God Himself says that he hardens men's hearts after they reject him enough times.

a reply to: graphuto

Whatever man. Burn in hell for all I care.

Ah.....honesty is like a breath of fresh air, isn't it?

a reply to: windword

Honestly, yes. I don't know why I even bother with you people, you aren't worth the time wasted.

a reply to: graphuto
more like men harden then hearts to people who reject their theology... and show it to be twisted and wrong...

I love when the true colours come to the surface...

well done

Whatever. I wouldn't even be here talking to you people if I wasn't coming from a place of love, and didn't want you to burn in hell.

However, if you keep rejecting, and rejecting, and rejecting, and mocking, and blashpeming, and making fun of God...


It's not like I get anything out of it. Why should I care what anyone believes? I care because hell sounds like a horrible place, and I don't want anyone to go there!

Do you think it's comfortable for me to sit here while people blaspheme the only thing in the world that matters to me?

That good old... Join us or die kinda love...

Gotcha..

a reply to: Akragon

It's not that I actively want anyone to go to hell. But when someone demonstrates repeatedly that that's where they want to go, then so be it. It's everyone's own choice, after all.

Like I said, I've not been following the Bible very well, sitting around here after the 2nd admonition. I always just hope, and plead that people repent, and believe the Gospel.

a reply to: graphuto

Well that's good at least...

The issue is, theres no proof anyone ever lands In Hell... Hell itself isn't even the word that is used... And the word that is used is an actual place outside of Jerusalem... or at least it was at one point...

So convinced Christians are of what they've been taught most, if not all of their lives that they fear that others may land themselves in this place... even though it likely does not exist in the sense they believe it does...

Whats even worse is that the tens of thousands of sects of Christianity don't even agree with one another, which means you have approx. 1 in 30k chance of landing yourself in said make believe place of firey death yourself because you don't even know if your theology is correct when theres other versions of Christianity that disagree with what you preach...

SO you're just as screwed as the rest of us...

Good thing its all just a fairy tale though... In reality a loving merciful God would not create a place such as Dante's "hell" which most of Christianity bases their beliefs on...

What it comes down to in 90% of Christian's cases is that you, like the rest of them... are trying to convince people that your theology is correct so you can strengthen your own beliefs...

Sound about right?

a reply to: Akragon

Not at all. I don't need to validate what I believe by convincing others to believe the same thing. That's like... narcissism or something.

a reply to: graphuto

I appreciate that you came here out of love and a desire to help guide us heathens away from damnation, I really do. You're of the opinion we've rejected God as if we believe in him, and think we are demonstrating a desire to go to hell. Try to understand where us non believers are coming from though. You haven't once asked why we don't believe. You have only made assumptions about us. Did it ever occur to you that maybe we have some pretty good reasons why we don't believe? I'm an atheist for good reasons. There is ample enough evidence to show the Bible is not the word of God, the only problem is the stubborn stance a lot of Christians take when they are presented with that evidence. I'm not just talking about God's morality, but a plethora of evidences in various fields of study. We are all about trying to deny ignorance.

a reply to: graphuto

Logic and science has killed the God of the Old Testament.

"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose.

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto."
Friedrich Nietzsche

This is the dawning of the "New Age", one in which we must reinvent divinity, because mankind has shattered the former model.

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

Not at all. I don't need to validate what I believe by convincing others to believe the same thing. That's like... narcissism or something.

IF that was the case you wouldn't say things like "burn in hell for all I care" when you know factually people don't believe it exists, and you have no proof either... so its based on words in a book not evidence

that's an empty threat... so clearly you have a need to show yourself as being correct

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

To be honest, I haven't asked any of you what you believe because I don't care. My "job" is to try and stand up for and preach the Bible. This wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.

18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

a reply to: Akragon

Who are you to determine the motives behind why I say the things I do? Are you in my mind? Do you know what I think / feel and believe? Crazy, I hadn't heard....

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

To be honest, I haven't asked any of you what you believe because I don't care.

That right there is your problem man.

I think I have a verse for you:

He that answers a matter before he hears it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Proverbs 18:13

a reply to: graphuto

Who are you to determine the motives behind why I say the things I do? Are you in my mind? Do you know what I think / feel and believe? Crazy, I hadn't heard....

I am who I am...

I suppose I could ask you the same thing when you claimed I wasn't a Christian, and didn't believe the bible was all true and the "word of God" in my past...

Pretty sure that's why Jesus told us not to judge others... You don't know me... I don't know you...

but now you know how you acted towards me... and how it feels to be judged

Nifty eh...

a reply to: Akragon

I guess. It isn't really the same thing. I'm judging you according to the Bible, whereas you're judging me according to...................

a reply to: graphuto

Nice! Well done! What a cheery "Christian", or should I say, "Paulian" like attitude you got there. Can't win a logical argument? Demand a person go straight to hell, do not pass go!

Typical and expected. Jesus would be proud. Er wait.. no he wouldn't either!

James 2:8
Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called? 8If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.…

As for your proposed scenario of pretend it's true time? Rejected. I've played that game before. I used to be the one that would play that same game against those evil unbelievers. Lets play a different game. Let's flip it, and state as fact the Bible itself is not true (fact).

That means we need a new theory of the origin of the universe without YHWH involved. Like this one, in which the Universe, is actually a 4D Singularity, with 3D space wrapped around it.

Of course, our intuition tends to recoil at the idea that everything and everyone we know emerged from the event horizon of a single four-dimensional black hole. We have no concept of what a four-dimensional universe might look like. We don't know how a four-dimensional "parent" universe itself came to be.

If that is the case and this is true, you should be asking yourself a series of terrifying questions. What does whomever is inside said Singularity, "observing" the event horizon, think about you and your words/actions these past few days? Did he "observe" any of it? After all, taking a clear stand with such anti-humanitarian, anti-creation, pro-genocidal, pro-war, pro-crimes against humanity morality, pro-religious intolerance, pro send your neighbor to hell attitude after given basic facts of the text, might cause whomever he is, to not think very highly of you.

Visualization to assist. You may notice familiar terminology in this image:



*Wink*

Cogito Ergo Sum.

originally posted by: graphuto
a reply to: Akragon

I guess. It isn't really the same thing. I'm judging you according to the Bible, whereas you're judging me according to...................

Which bible are you reading?

See... mine says "condemn not and you will not be condemned"

Simply because you have no idea what is happening in a persons life... You have no idea whos destined for hell OR if it even exists... but according to you, IF we don't believe what you do... We're ALL headed there

I only judge because I know the Christian mentality... I've been around it my whole life, and it is the reason why I gave it up...

It rarely if ever follows the teaching of Jesus... But lines right up with Paul

Which is why I argue so hard against it...

Stick with your saviour "Paulus Christ" if you wish... I only hope one day you will see the light

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: graphuto

Just to clarify: if one fails to meet any of those four points you listed, they are going to hell? I guess I'm asking if its possible (or probable) for, say, a kind compassionate loving soft spoken philanthropic atheist/Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/pagan to be sent to hell on account of not caring what Jesus thinks. Not because they were cruel or arrogant. Just because they bowed to no master or a different master.

Still waiting for an answer.