Interstellar travel impossible, therefore...

NullVoid
Interstellar travel is not impossible.
Human interstellar travel is almost impossible.

There is difference.

there is also a difference between colonizing nearby stars and "conquering" the galaxy. anyone who thinks we cannot in a fairly short time from now send a manned expedition to nearby stars is blind to reality.

brazenalderpadrescorpio
Well I guess that closes the book on that one. Close the forum!!

Very well said and to the point!
Where does such arrogance come from?
Why are some of these people on this forum?
Stanton Friedman only knows what HE knows and not what aliens know!
Just pure Arrogance!

stormbringer1701

NullVoid
Interstellar travel is not impossible.
Human interstellar travel is almost impossible.

There is difference.

there is also a difference between colonizing nearby stars and "conquering" the galaxy. anyone who thinks we cannot in a fairly short time from now send a manned expedition to nearby stars is blind to reality.

To colonize nearby stars is also in "almost impossible" with current technology. Space is not void, space journey have to solve various matters seen and unseen. As a simple test scenario, how far voyager have traveled ? At that speed, a child born during deployment, would already age considerably, he would not know even if earth exist, if we didnt tell him. Now let us provide him with new stasis technology developed on earth so he can sleep through the journey, he will have millions of trouble understanding it (no teacher), finding the materials, constructing it, powering etc etc. To make the point - he barely reach the edge of our solar system.
And I still did not go into the space hazards yet.The reality is this - space is vast and infinite, we are just like a bacteria in a mansion from its perspective,
never underestimate it, no, you shall not pass, not even reach other stars, not yet.

NullVoid

stormbringer1701

NullVoid
Interstellar travel is not impossible.
Human interstellar travel is almost impossible.

There is difference.

there is also a difference between colonizing nearby stars and "conquering" the galaxy. anyone who thinks we cannot in a fairly short time from now send a manned expedition to nearby stars is blind to reality.

To colonize nearby stars is also in "almost impossible" with current technology. Space is not void, space journey have to solve various matters seen and unseen.

As a simple test scenario, how far voyager have traveled ? At that speed, a child born during deployment, would already age considerably, he would not know even if earth exist, if we didnt tell him. Now let us provide him with new stasis technology developed on earth so he can sleep through the journey, he will have millions of trouble understanding it (no teacher), finding the materials, constructing it, powering etc etc. To make the point - he barely reach the edge of our solar system.
And I still did not go into the space hazards yet.

The reality is this - space is vast and infinite, we are just like a bacteria in a mansion from its perspective,
never underestimate it, no, you shall not pass, not even reach other stars, not yet.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by NullVoid


Did you know that gravity drives, even faster than light travel are rather easy to do? I bet not...

Novel space propulsion system

More from European Space Agency

Artificial gravity, gravity space drives, and FTL are a reality now! So are "stasis fields", accelerated, and decelerated time...time travel won't be happenin' for prolly another 50 - 75 years.

If you want more links; I can get them

ETA:

The reality is this - space is vast and infinite, we are just like a bacteria in a mansion from its perspective,
never underestimate it, no, you shall not pass, not even reach other stars, not yet.

Actually...in infinite space, and space is truly infinite. This Universe that we all call "home", on all of it's levels, on every plane of existence, in every way so ever; is infinitely small!

However; no entity, and I consider the Universe an entity, so ever has the right or authority to interfere in my path. So...I shall pass, I will go to other stars, and I will take the Terrestrial Humans with me...should I desire to do so!

tanka418
reply to post by NullVoid

 

Did you know that gravity drives, even faster than light travel are rather easy to do? I bet not...

Novel space propulsion system

More from European Space Agency

"Easy to do"? How many have you done?

conundrummer

tanka418
reply to post by NullVoid

 

Did you know that gravity drives, even faster than light travel are rather easy to do? I bet not...

Novel space propulsion system

More from European Space Agency

"Easy to do"? How many have you done?

I'm doing some early engineering on the drive system...is that close enough for ya? You know just to see how feasible it might be...

And that is how I know how difficult it might be...

tanka418
reply to post by NullVoid

 

Did you know that gravity drives, even faster than light travel are rather easy to do? I bet not...

Novel space propulsion system

More from European Space Agency

Artificial gravity, gravity space drives, and FTL are a reality now! So are "stasis fields", accelerated, and decelerated time...time travel won't be happenin' for prolly another 50 - 75 years.

If you want more links; I can get them

ETA:

The reality is this - space is vast and infinite, we are just like a bacteria in a mansion from its perspective,
never underestimate it, no, you shall not pass, not even reach other stars, not yet.

Actually...in infinite space, and space is truly infinite. This Universe that we all call "home", on all of it's levels, on every plane of existence, in every way so ever; is infinitely small!

However; no entity, and I consider the Universe an entity, so ever has the right or authority to interfere in my path. So...I shall pass, I will go to other stars, and I will take the Terrestrial Humans with me...should I desire to do so!

edit on 17-3-2014 by tanka418 because: (no reason given)

Actually gravity drives are far from reality He needs 3 basic particles : graviton, gravito-photon, quintessence to create model of matter. In other words none of this has been proved by science as even existing and whoever wrote your paper has little understanding of science they are incorrectly using Bekenstein-Hawking entropy. Its not used for propulsion nor can it be.

dragonridr
Actually gravity drives are far from reality He needs 3 basic particles : graviton, gravito-photon, quintessence to create model of matter. In other words none of this has been proved by science as even existing and whoever wrote your paper has little understanding of science they are incorrectly using Bekenstein-Hawking entropy. Its not used for propulsion nor can it be.

You really need to start reading the stuff you criticize...ALL of the lab work, including several experiments that prove the science have already been done. As has early engineering work that demonstrates that the system is viable using off-the-shelf components.

The scientists that did this work were Walter Droscher, and Jochem Hauser. The papers are published on the European Space Agency Website...or are they not good enough.

And of course you won't recognize much here if you are "old school" physics...Perhaps you should read a bit of Heim...

This system provides for propulsion by creating an artificial gravity and projecting it along an axis...the gravity generator follows that axis.

This provides a far superior drive than any existing system as it doesn't require vast amounts of energy to achieve super luminal velocities.

To the ancient Greeks, traveling by airplane was also "impossible". A few thousand years later, we can do it. In a universe 15 billion years old, I bet the chance of a civilization being a few thousand years more technologically advanced than ours is a pretty good bet.

amkia
reply to post by eezveeneetee

 

Yup…


Just 120 years ago all scientist was agreed that the human being cannot drive a vehicle speeding more than 70 km pr. hour since the air pressure will suffocate the driver.

What is impossible yesterday is possible now…Time and innovation will change everything.

edit on 12-3-2014 by amkia because: (no reason given)

That was said very well! Thanks!

The main problem as I can tell is that there are people on this forum that question the assertions of seeing aliens and flying saucers.
If the people making such claims are crazy to the people that question them it means the skeptics are to be deemed sane and smart for their assessment. The so-called skeptic is home safe as long as they are correct.
The skeptic can never accept the alternative of the alien witnesses because it would indicate the skeptic is stupid and/or crazy!
So to all the skeptics out there I do understand your passion to stand fast in you position.
The only problem I have with you is the fact of why are you on this forum?
That was a rhetorical question as I do know why!

tanka418

dragonridr
Actually gravity drives are far from reality He needs 3 basic particles : graviton, gravito-photon, quintessence to create model of matter. In other words none of this has been proved by science as even existing and whoever wrote your paper has little understanding of science they are incorrectly using Bekenstein-Hawking entropy. Its not used for propulsion nor can it be.

You really need to start reading the stuff you criticize...ALL of the lab work, including several experiments that prove the science have already been done. As has early engineering work that demonstrates that the system is viable using off-the-shelf components.

The scientists that did this work were Walter Droscher, and Jochem Hauser. The papers are published on the European Space Agency Website...or are they not good enough.

And of course you won't recognize much here if you are "old school" physics...Perhaps you should read a bit of Heim...

This system provides for propulsion by creating an artificial gravity and projecting it along an axis...the gravity generator follows that axis.

This provides a far superior drive than any existing system as it doesn't require vast amounts of energy to achieve super luminal velocities.

Im familiar with it and have read it ans it makes several assumption yet to be proved one being gravity waves work the same as electromagnetic waves with the exception they can travel instantly. This right now is fringe science which im afraid cant be disproved because we dont know what causes gravity. The other problem is the nature of a graviton itself low energy particle is very hard to find. In order for gravity to be used for acceleration there also has to be an ether connecting all matter in the universe as yet undiscovered. Meaning all this is speculation and the science hasnt caught up yet if ever.Warping spacewill be a likely route assuming we can produce exotic matter.

www.nasa.gov...

dragonridr

Im familiar with it and have read it ans it makes several assumption yet to be proved one being gravity waves work the same as electromagnetic waves with the exception they can travel instantly. This right now is fringe science which im afraid cant be disproved because we dont know what causes gravity. The other problem is the nature of a graviton itself low energy particle is very hard to find. In order for gravity to be used for acceleration there also has to be an ether connecting all matter in the universe as yet undiscovered. Meaning all this is speculation and the science hasnt caught up yet if ever.Warping spacewill be a likely route assuming we can produce exotic matter.

www.nasa.gov...

Yet they have laboratory results that demonstrate that the system works. They provide all the necessary math, all verified by empirical data...So, it's not so much "fringe" as it is "novel". The system is simple and elegant, and can be constructed right now out of off-the-shelf technologies. It doesn't require any exotic matter, nor great amounts of energy. And, while still not the best of solutions to interstellar travel, it makes a good starting point, as it will take Man to nearby stars.

Warping of space is a natural phenomena exhibited by all massive particles, the greater the mass the greater the warping of space, also, the greater the velocity the greater the warping of space. Simple math will verify this.

Perhaps it is near time for scientists to "step-off" and let Engineers do their job.

reply to post by tanka418


Ok i wasnt going to embarrass you but your links are fake.And they just make stuff up i know you think you can run to a local hardware store and build one but not by using this. This is a theoretical proposal discussed at a conference and whoever put it together has made some huge assumptions. and also seems to make a distinction between a graviton and photogravitton that seems arbitrary at best. There attempting to use hawkings radiation as proof of concept but thats not what it is. And the author of these papers shows no understanding of the science involved. Yes it may be possible to build a gravity drive if we learn to control gravity for now theres a lot of ifs.

dragonridr
reply to post by tanka418

 

Ok i wasnt going to embarrass you but your links are fake.And they just make stuff up i know you think you can run to a local hardware store and build one but not by using this. This is a theoretical proposal discussed at a conference and whoever put it together has made some huge assumptions. and also seems to make a distinction between a graviton and photogravitton that seems arbitrary at best. There attempting to use hawkings radiation as proof of concept but thats not what it is. And the author of these papers shows no understanding of the science involved. Yes it may be possible to build a gravity drive if we learn to control gravity for now theres a lot of ifs.

I was sort of waiting for this!!!

So, the people at the European Space Agency post "fake" science, they "make it up"? Is that what you are saying?

Now, do you think it might be possible for you to actually read the material, you know so that you can render an intelligent opinion... We have been down this road before, any you are still NOT showing any knowledge, nor understanding of even simple physics (despite the fact that you claim to be a Physicist). And now, you are completely missing everything about Burkhard Heim and his physics. You are going on about things that you have no understanding of; and you don't want to embarrass me? lol

Again the authors of these papers are highly educated and honored European scientists, one is now retired, the other a Professor...meanwhile, you have not even demonstrated the scientific/Physics knowledge of a High school freshman. Your attempts to discredit established, and well known science, as well as the novel science seem boundless, unfortunately without the scientific knowledge and experience to backup anything you say.

I mean, jeez man, you could at least read Heim and know a little about what you are trying to say.

from the first line of one of the papers I posted:

This paper describes in a non-mathematical way, by using a sequence of pictures, the physics of a novel space
propulsion technique and its experimental realization,

What's that?!!?? Experimental realization you say? But, but, this is just a proposal!!?! Isn't it?

You see...you don't read!...this system has been realized, and it seems to function well enough that they could take some measurements, collect a bit of data...enough to start the engineering process...which I have done.

tanka418

dragonridr
reply to post by tanka418

 

Ok i wasnt going to embarrass you but your links are fake.And they just make stuff up i know you think you can run to a local hardware store and build one but not by using this. This is a theoretical proposal discussed at a conference and whoever put it together has made some huge assumptions. and also seems to make a distinction between a graviton and photogravitton that seems arbitrary at best. There attempting to use hawkings radiation as proof of concept but thats not what it is. And the author of these papers shows no understanding of the science involved. Yes it may be possible to build a gravity drive if we learn to control gravity for now theres a lot of ifs.

I was sort of waiting for this!!!

So, the people at the European Space Agency post "fake" science, they "make it up"? Is that what you are saying?

Now, do you think it might be possible for you to actually read the material, you know so that you can render an intelligent opinion... We have been down this road before, any you are still NOT showing any knowledge, nor understanding of even simple physics (despite the fact that you claim to be a Physicist). And now, you are completely missing everything about Burkhard Heim and his physics. You are going on about things that you have no understanding of; and you don't want to embarrass me? lol

Again the authors of these papers are highly educated and honored European scientists, one is now retired, the other a Professor...meanwhile, you have not even demonstrated the scientific/Physics knowledge of a High school freshman. Your attempts to discredit established, and well known science, as well as the novel science seem boundless, unfortunately without the scientific knowledge and experience to backup anything you say.

I mean, jeez man, you could at least read Heim and know a little about what you are trying to say.

from the first line of one of the papers I posted:

This paper describes in a non-mathematical way, by using a sequence of pictures, the physics of a novel space
propulsion technique and its experimental realization,

What's that?!!?? Experimental realization you say? But, but, this is just a proposal!!?! Isn't it?

You see...you don't read!...this system has been realized, and it seems to function well enough that they could take some measurements, collect a bit of data...enough to start the engineering process...which I have done.

edit on 18-3-2014 by tanka418 because: (no reason given)

It isnt from the European space agency i suggest you look again. Its posted on a site that you pay to post scientific papers you could post one to doesnt matter what the topic is. When looking at peer reviews you have to pay attention to where its posted as well. As far as knowing about what im talking about id say i have a fundamental grasp of physics i use it in my job.However by all means prove me wrong tell you whet prove a graviton exists or a photograviton all we need is one experiment. See we dont know if gravitational fields are quantized.By the way this is an instant Nobel Prize proving QFT. So please realize your dealing with psuedo science and the reason the math isnt there is because it doesnt work unless they make assumptions on the fabric of space time.

dragonridr
However by all means prove me wrong tell you whet prove a graviton exists or a photograviton all we need is one experiment. See we dont know if gravitational fields are quantized.By the way this is an instant Nobel Prize proving QFT. So please realize your dealing with psuedo science and the reason the math isnt there is because it doesnt work unless they make assumptions on the fabric of space time.

For your "experiment" I, again, submit the set of papers on this subject, as they provide ALL the requisite data.

You keep trying to make this into "pseudo-science" and continue to fail. You fail to read, and discover the "math" you say isn't there. And as far as making "assumptions", are they really making assumptions greater than the ones you make? We all make assumptions on the universe, it is a method well suited to discovery and learning about out environment, the trick is to know when they are valid...

tanka418

dragonridr
However by all means prove me wrong tell you whet prove a graviton exists or a photograviton all we need is one experiment. See we dont know if gravitational fields are quantized.By the way this is an instant Nobel Prize proving QFT. So please realize your dealing with psuedo science and the reason the math isnt there is because it doesnt work unless they make assumptions on the fabric of space time.

For your "experiment" I, again, submit the set of papers on this subject, as they provide ALL the requisite data.

You keep trying to make this into "pseudo-science" and continue to fail. You fail to read, and discover the "math" you say isn't there. And as far as making "assumptions", are they really making assumptions greater than the ones you make? We all make assumptions on the universe, it is a method well suited to discovery and learning about out environment, the trick is to know when they are valid...

Prove it show me a scientific experiment that proves a graviton exists its simple. Ill tell you its not out there its all theoretical but by all means prove me wrong post a paper. Because i checked and there isnt a nobel prize mention anywhere so this unknown experiment must have been done in someones basement so lets please stick to reputable journals.

dragonridr
Prove it show me a scientific experiment that proves a graviton exists its simple. Ill tell you its not out there its all theoretical but by all means prove me wrong post a paper. Because i checked and there isnt a nobel prize mention anywhere so this unknown experiment must have been done in someones basement so lets please stick to reputable journals.

So here we are, again. You turning a blind eye to valid empirical data. It is so convenient, the ways of the mean debunker, when the data doesn't say what you want; ignore it...

Problem is...it won't go away...and you will have to deal with it sooner or later. But until then, you enjoy your little fantasy...

tanka418

dragonridr
Prove it show me a scientific experiment that proves a graviton exists its simple. Ill tell you its not out there its all theoretical but by all means prove me wrong post a paper. Because i checked and there isnt a nobel prize mention anywhere so this unknown experiment must have been done in someones basement so lets please stick to reputable journals.

So here we are, again. You turning a blind eye to valid empirical data. It is so convenient, the ways of the mean debunker, when the data doesn't say what you want; ignore it...

Problem is...it won't go away...and you will have to deal with it sooner or later. But until then, you enjoy your little fantasy...

All i said is post the data will look at it show me where they found gravtons to exist. Should be simple with all that empirical data you saids out there. Heck we take votes on whos going to get the noble prize in physics i can make a fortune. So wheres the paper and all put in mu predictions and make some cash. I look forward to to reaqding the paper as well since im intrigued about how they discovered it since as far as science is concerned the energy levels are two low to be detected with current tech.
iy