Interstellar travel impossible, therefore...

a reply to: dragonridr

Hi, afaik the bit here is not correct:

... and the gravity that the Earth feels right now pulling it towards the Sun is actually pulling it towards where the Sun was 8+ minutes ago.

There would be no way to get stable orbits in such a system.

Static fields always point directly to the actual position of the source, assuming no or weak acceleration (like in the sun vs planet case).

a reply to: eezveeneetee

I would probably prefer to call the people that doesn't believe there's anything to the UFO phenomenon lemmings.

As for being a distraction, people that believe in UFO's and or the ET hypothesis is probably many times more likely than the average Joe to believe in advanced black projects, seeing as many of the stories are based around the idea of humans reverse engineering ET technology.

This would invalidate your whole argument. Though, I will say that I do think it is very possible that the military has used UFO's as an excuse to cover up secret projects, this doesn't in any way invalidate the UFO phenomenon or the ET hypothesis. If anyone is doing disinformation for the government for free, that would be the diehard skeptics:

"One of our greatest covers was the policy that says UFOs didnt exist, if UFOs didnt exist then there was no crash , if there was no crash then there was no material, no one could investigate us because there was no such thing, the more the debunkers screamed the better we liked it, they were doing disinformation for us."

Not that I can claim to know much about interstellar travel but I think it's a bit strong to say it's impossible.

As with much of science and things we've taken as 'facts', they are only that because this is the conclusion we've arrived at with the information available at the time. In 100 years we may be looking back at our backward, neanderthal selves and asking how we ever got by without interstellar travel.

But, as I said, I know little about it so as you're so certain it's impossible I'll take your word for it....

Sorry static fields have nothing to do with it strange idea there. And yes you can have stable orbits with thw sun in motion in fact that delay i was mentioning is actually calculated when we send out probes. We actually have to calculate the position changes of the sun and the planets to make orbit at say mars. Not sure who told you otherwise but the universe seems to agree with Einstine at least for now.

For super luminal speeds that should make short inter stellar trips possible,
we need to figure out how to disengage from the Higg's field.
thus removing the speed limitations imposed upon by mass.
Although it may be an impossible for us now, Imagine favourably the human race in say 1000 years.

originally posted by: rom12345
For super luminal speeds that should make short inter stellar trips possible,
we need to figure out how to disengage from the Higg's field.
thus removing the speed limitations imposed upon by mass.
Although it may be an impossible for us now, Imagine favourably the human race in say 1000 years.

super luminal speeds are not necessary for trips to the near by stars only necessary for stars where relativistic subluminal speed will not do. ideally speeds of ten percent of light speed would make trips to nearby stars practical enough that they happen every once in a while. if we had an iron clad perfectly habitable destination much lesser speeds than ten percent c would do for one way settlers. astronomy is progressing to the point that finding an iron clad destination and thus motivation for such trips is on the horizon.

fusion will provide sufficient speed for interstellar trips as well as open the entire solar system to exploration and colonization. at first fusion drives will be lucky to quadruple the speed of our current fastest probes like voyager. however; the theoretical top end speed for advanced fusion engines is now about 35 to 40 percent of light speed. at those speeds a trip to the nearest stars will take about ten years. the voyager probe has been enroute for 37 years. a fusion driven mission would take 1/3 of that time. voyager proves a single mission or flight can easily exist for the amount of time it would take a fusion enabled mission to get to a near by star.

a reply to: eezveeneetee

OP is NOT PAID to be disinfo agent because if he were, he'd already be fired for doing it terribly wrong. Is this what 25 posts were for? To make this 'incredible' excuse of a thread?

What do you know about inter-stellar travel to say it's IMPOSSIBLE? That's right - nothing. /Note: Topic too old, I am posting to myself/

P.S NOT a believer here, you can save the 'oh look tinfoil hats only defend the topic' posts. If there is ET presence it is more likely to have happened in the past, considering there may be matter we don't know exist as some claim, you can forget about the interstellar travel as the only way of travel.

I do not mind doubting the ET phenomenon as I myself have become rather skeptical; it is such clueless threads that make me go burn the thread. But it's just a troll post, right?

And Stanton Friedman is definitely not a gov agent, there are such for sure but Friedman is the one who tries to expose them and he is the researcher, not the claimer of Aliens on Earth. Richard Doty, Billy Moore, Lazar, Lear on the other hand and anyone who claims of being in touch with beings or technology has the burden of proof. Stanton is just your shiny armorer against those evil government trolls.

a reply to: eezveeneetee

Nothing is impossible, only mathematically improbable.

a reply to: dragonridr

Then you shouldn't have any problems to provide calculations of orbits where this multiple minutes delay is taken into account, and show that they are stable.

Probably one of the most idiotic things I have heard in awhile.

Stop and think about what you are saying. You are saying it's impossible based on HUMAN ingenuity. How the hell would you know if an alien has developed a technology capable of traveling the starts with minimal effort? You don't. Therefore, what your thread is really saying is you are close minded and cannot look at things objectively. You are subjective. Try opening your mind and stop acting like you have all the answers.

You don't.

a reply to: roncoallstar

Fully agree on that one. If you told anybody about a mars rover, the moon landing, iphones or even microwaves a hundred years ago, you had been burned on the stake. Just because humans don't understand it (yet) doesn't mean it is impossible.

Also, even humans are coming up with creative solutions to interstellar travel, all we need is a better way to gain energy. Alcubierre-Drive for instance.

And when the steam train first came out, it used to be thought that going over 30 mph on it would be impossible as we would suffocate from the sheer speed (lol), apparently... nothing is really impossible if you can imagine it, improbable certainly, but never impossible, in a different dimension or universe, if you subscribe to the multi-dimension/multiverse theory, the laws of physics are more than likely different from ours, which makes anything you can imagine, infinitely possible! just my 2 pence worth...
PEACE!!

a reply to: eezveeneetee


No, interstellar travel is perfectly possible with our current level of, stone-age, science and technology. And whilst I only advocate Apparent Faster Than Light (AFTL) drives for the discerning interstellar traveller; just for fun, let's have a look at what brute force ballistics can achieve using Newtonian physics with Einstein's constraints.

We shall be using vanilla nuclear fission for propulsion (or anti-matter if anyone cares to throw enough dough at it).

A ship accelerating at 1g (a somewhat pleasant environment for Earth based humans) will:

• Reach the Moon within 3 hours.
  
• Reach Mars in just over a day.
  
• Reach Neptune within 11 days.
  
• Exit the Solar System in just over 15 days.
  
• Reach 0.9c within 313 days, at which point we will shut off the drive, and cruise, with our mass increased by a comfortable factor of 2.3.
  
• We reach Alpha Centauri in just under 5 years and 89 days.
  

All times above are ship time; 11 years and 59 days will have passed on Earth when we reach Alpha Centauri.




And in simple terms: Einstein's constraint that the speed of light is the limit of ballistic speed is because at the speed of light the energy from propulsion will only add to your mass not velocity. But to get anywhere approaching an understanding of physics you need to be fluid in mathematics, there's no way around that!

originally posted by: HotblackDesiato
a reply to: eezveeneetee


No, interstellar travel is perfectly possible with our current level of, stone-age, science and technology. And whilst I only advocate Apparent Faster Than Light (AFTL) drives for the discerning interstellar traveller; just for fun, let's have a look at what brute force ballistics can achieve using Newtonian physics with Einstein's constraints.

We shall be using vanilla nuclear fission for propulsion (or anti-matter if anyone cares to throw enough dough at it).

A ship accelerating at 1g (a somewhat pleasant environment for Earth based humans) will:

• Reach the Moon within 3 hours.
  
• Reach Mars in just over a day.
  
• Reach Neptune within 11 days.
  
• Exit the Solar System in just over 15 days.
  
• Reach 0.9c within 313 days, at which point we will shut off the drive, and cruise, with our mass increased by a comfortable factor of 2.3.
  
• We reach Alpha Centauri in just under 5 years and 89 days.
  

All times above are ship time; 11 years and 59 days will have passed on Earth when we reach Alpha Centauri.




And in simple terms: Einstein's constraint that the speed of light is the limit of ballistic speed is because at the speed of light the energy from propulsion will only add to your mass not velocity. But to get anywhere approaching an understanding of physics you need to be fluid in mathematics, there's no way around that!

very nice!!! well said....
2nd

a reply to: HotblackDesiato

Some time ago I've read about a more detailed version of this calculation. There is the small issue of interstellar gas, which might make traveling at 0.9c impractical, as you would need some heavy shielding in the front section, several metes of titanium or tens meters of water. 0.3-0.5c would be a more realistic goal. Those are engineering issues though.

originally posted by: eezveeneetee
The subject line states my premise. SINCE interstellar travel is impossible, the so-called ET theory is invalid. And your promotion of the ET theory has been central to the UFO "phenomenon" for decades now. You have been foundational in promulgating an entire culture of UFO hysterics. Therefore, you are either sincerely misled, delusional, or an operative in the largest, and most successful PSY-OP in history. You don't strike me as deluding yourself, or mentally imbalanced. So I'll ask, or rather suggest a possible explanation of who Stanton Friedman is, in part. Are you, or have you been, an employee or a contractor of a U.S. government intelligence agency?
It makes a whole lot of sense that you are very possibly a big player in perpetuating a very useful hoax that the government can benefit from: a sensational idea that the wishful would follow like lemmings, and serve to distract the public from various programs they prefer to be hidden. Assuming my theory is correct, the UFO disinformation program has been enormously successful. ET's arriving to our solar locale is an impossible feat. So, Dr. Friedman...are your checks from the government direct-deposited?

Given the age and size of the universe it is inconceivable that we are the only intelligent technological race to exist. There is every chance that such life has had a chance to develop beyond us by millions, possibly even billions of years.

Just because it would take us a generation to get to our nearest star by current technological standards, does not mean that some civilization out there has developed exotic forms of travel.

My personal favorite of these advanced technologies would be to not actually physically go at all.... but to take advantage of the quantum field to instantaneously travel to any part of the known universe... without moving!

But who knows what an alien civilization with enough time could develop?

Korg.

I've decided to do some math, just for fun and giggles.

Assuming our galaxy, as a 2D (ignore thickness) disk of 100000 light years size, contains about 1000 somewhat evenly distributed (curved hexagonal packing) planets with advanced intelligent life.

The distance to our closest neighbours would be about 1400 light years. So yeah, we really need that warp drive.

PS:
Yes, it is a constructed example, but still usefull just to get an idea about the distances involved.

Who the hell are you to say its impossible?!? You probably work at Best Buy on the geek sqaud. Good troll post tho

originally posted by: eezveeneetee
The subject line states my premise. SINCE interstellar travel is impossible, the so-called ET theory is invalid. And your promotion of the ET theory has been central to the UFO "phenomenon" for decades now. You have been foundational in promulgating an entire culture of UFO hysterics. Therefore, you are either sincerely misled, delusional, or an operative in the largest, and most successful PSY-OP in history. You don't strike me as deluding yourself, or mentally imbalanced. So I'll ask, or rather suggest a possible explanation of who Stanton Friedman is, in part. Are you, or have you been, an employee or a contractor of a U.S. government intelligence agency?
It makes a whole lot of sense that you are very possibly a big player in perpetuating a very useful hoax that the government can benefit from: a sensational idea that the wishful would follow like lemmings, and serve to distract the public from various programs they prefer to be hidden. Assuming my theory is correct, the UFO disinformation program has been enormously successful. ET's arriving to our solar locale is an impossible feat. So, Dr. Friedman...are your checks from the government direct-deposited?

While the mathmatics of propulsion and power have been pretty well done, I have always been fascinated with those problems which I know will arise from the navigational aspects of travel between star systems.
It would wear out a good pencil trying to figure out and keep track of the movements of distant planets around distant stars as well as ploting a route back to earth. With all of these points moving within three dimentional space, at whatever speeds, it could get interesting to know where to be when your destination was at the same point.
I guess it would be like shooting birds; you don't aim where they are when you fire the gun, you aim where they will be when the bullet gets there. But I guess that's why hey make computers.

a reply to: teamcommander

I think a lot will depend on whether FTL is possible or not.

What if it is a real constraint of our universe, and nothing can go FTL?

Think of fully automated sleeper ships with cryogenic capsules or self-sustaining space habitats taking generations to reach their destination. Fascinating stuff.


PS:
I am a sucker for hard sci-fi I guess.