Interstellar travel impossible, therefore...

pikestaff
I really like the solution to interstellar travel in the novel 'the mote in gods eye' where starcraft travel between stars using what the author
called an equotential interstellar flux connecting stars, where entering at it a particular speed means you leave the flux at the same speed next to the other star, although the flux started and ended quite a bit away from each star.
One other thing, Ezekiel's visitors, if they were interstellar visitors why did they use chemical rockets to leave the earth? (ascended to heaven on a pillar of fire)

you should check out the Mach principle. i believe you would like it.

Mach's principle is that every bit of mass and energy is interconnected via something much like wormholes and thus gravity and inertia are the sum total of tiny interactions through these connections. it is the background to Dr Woodward's work on Wormhole travel and energy production. it changes the way inertia arises and allows for it's total control.

Odd, the OP hasn't been back to this thread since they posted it. No replies...nothing.

eezveeneetee is actually incorrect, interstellar travel IS possible with current, publicly known, technology, it's just that it would take a really long time. So what I think eezveeneetee meant to say is that "rapid" interstellar travel , meaning traveling between stars within a human (possibily alien) lifetime and in a reasonable amount of time, is "impossible".

The only real barrier to rapid interstellar travel is the light barrier. There are indications that it may be possible to circumvent this barrier though, a full, accurate theory of quantum gravity is needed before we can answer this question with any degree of certainty.

stormbringer1701

almost but not quite. a number of systems need to be developed first. i think that the mere act of starting a project could bring all the necessary parts to fruition but really right now we could not take any off the shelf technologies to do the following:

a closed cycle life support system with redundancies.

a propulsion system to get us there in a reasonable amount of time.

Again I submit; this is real science, and describes an artificial gravity drive that can be constructed with "off-the-self" materials, and technologies. This is science (technology) ready for the Engineering phase. Building test/engineering platforms would be rather easy with current technology.

impact mitigation or avoidance or active countermeasures for impactors larger than sand grain or fine gravel size.

The drive system above requires a significant magnetic field...>>60Tesla. This would provide; this would provide for a variety of shielding technologies to be employed.

Most of the issues are moderate engineering issues. And, the Plus is that all areas of technology can benefit from such a project.

welI i hope heim theory, Woodward's theory or some other non-mainstream science scheme does work but when it comes to any of the ones i have seen; even ones i am rooting for: it will take extraordinary proof to convince establishment science types. you know the guys that actually have the money to build a spaceship using one of these outlier principles.

Understand this, when it comes to what is called fringe science i have a soft spot for a lot of it myself. But it ain't real until the experimenter floats down in the NASA parking lot crushing the administrators car in the process and holding a press conference and lines up the skeptics for a public azz paddling and makes them kneel and puts his or her foot on their neck.

preliminary technology needed for protection from larger impactors is being fielded now.

www.technovelgy.com...



what this means is this technology can be developed into an active defense for relativistic impactors in the future.

But $20m from the Australian government and $40m in private investment will help the team set up as the Cooperative Research Centre (CRC) to develop better lasers to track tiny pieces of debris, importing techniques from astronomy used to remove the blurring of the atmosphere.

The ultimate aim is to increase the power of the lasers to illuminate and zap pieces of junk so they burn up harmlessly as they fall through the upper atmosphere.

“There’s no risk of missing and hitting a working satellite,” Colless said. “We can target them precisely. We really don’t miss.”

Great Job; Aussies!

Once upon a time we used to burn "witches" and believe the world is flat too.

“Our senses enable us to perceive only a minute portion of the outside world.” Nikola Tesla

The way I look at it is this "phenomena" obviously has a way to get here from there wherever "there" happens to be. I also believe that we as a species are one day capable of discovering how this is exactly done. To take our current understanding of physics, which is in no way even near complete and then to declare something impossible within the framework of our current knowledge is only valid if we have already achieved perfect knowledge of all that there is.

The fact that we continue to make new discoveries in physics only proves that we do not know everything. I'd wager that even "they" do not everything either. They just operate at a much higher level of ignorance than we do.

Traveling at the speeds necessary to visit other galaxies or planets within a human life & using conventional methods, is not feasible. However, there is no law in the physical world that inhibits "jumping" distances across space/time by bending or warping space around an object or craft. essentially enabling it to travel at or faster than the speed of light. The only limit at the moment, is our ability to figure out a way to get it done. Physics says that it is not impossible, son. Class dismissed.

LogicalRazor
However, there is no law in the physical world that inhibits "jumping" distances across space/time by bending or warping space around an object or craft. [...] Class dismissed.

The only thing preventing that is being able to come up with the energy to do it (and the ability to control that energy), which some people have calculated in the range of all the energy generated by an entire galaxy, and then some. So while it might be "theoretically" possible on paper, get out of physics class and go down to shop class and ask a technician how possible it is in reality. Ask them what they think would happen to all the physical space -- filled with stars and planets and spaceships and people -- between the two points when you bend it.

reply to post by Blue Shift


There's a possible loophole/solution there. M-Theory and other multiverse theories may explain why gravity is relatively weak in our universe or our "membrane". I believe the answer to the energy question will be as a direct result of understanding gravity at the quantum level and using something like the mysterious "dark matter" or anti-matter. Gravity is much more than its observable effects on objects with mass. It doesn't even make sense in quantum mechanics. At least not in the sense that it does in the large scale universe.

LogicalRazor
There's a possible loophole/solution there.

Again, we're arguing between the possible and the improbable or impractical. And no matter what, we're still talking about huge amounts of power. No matter how clever we get, it's still pretty unlikely that we'll be able to come up with a device we can use to travel between stars that we can run on a car battery (or nuclear reactor the size of Jupiter).

reply to post by eezveeneetee


O K.
I'll show my "rebellous side" and agree with the OP that interstellar flight "IS" impossible. The operative word being "IS".

This very same statement could have been, and likely was, made about "heavier than air, powered flying machine" in 1899.
It was likely also made about anyone flying solo across the Atlantic Ocean before WW1.
You see nothing is possible until it has been done.

teamcommander
This very same statement could have been, and likely was, made about "heavier than air, powered craft" in 1899.
It was likely also made about anyone flying solo across the Atlantic Ocean before WW1.
You see nothing is possible until it has been done.

That's a poor argument and always has been. Just because some people were wrong about these things in the past doesn't mean they'll be wrong about entirely different things in the future. People also used to laugh about the notion of everybody having flying cars in the 21st Century.

Blue Shift

Again, we're arguing between the possible and the improbable or impractical. And no matter what, we're still talking about huge amounts of power. No matter how clever we get, it's still pretty unlikely that we'll be able to come up with a device we can use to travel between stars that we can run on a car battery (or nuclear reactor the size of Jupiter).

Again your under the delusional premise that the tec we have TODAY will be the tec avalible in 1000 years time.


Go to 1014 AD Im sure if you tried explaining a Nuclear Power station to a Saxon they would laugh the thatched roof over there heads down.

LogicalRazor
Traveling at the speeds necessary to visit other galaxies or planets within a human life & using conventional methods, is not feasible. However, there is no law in the physical world that inhibits "jumping" distances across space/time by bending or warping space around an object or craft. essentially enabling it to travel at or faster than the speed of light. The only limit at the moment, is our ability to figure out a way to get it done. Physics says that it is not impossible, son. Class dismissed.

at relativisitic speed in the frame of reference of occupants of the space ship a trip across the galaxy takes just a few weeks. so one way travel even across the galaxy certainly is feasible.

generational ships make even non relativistic interstellar travel travel feasible.

the earth is essentially a generational space ship travelling in interstellar space right now. as we (the solar system) travel in the galactic orbit other stars are also travelling. most are moving away (red shift) but some are coming towards us. this has been going on since the beginning of the universe. it will continue until time ends.

at one point or another some of the nearby stars were within 1 light year of earth. some more distant ones were too.

it is completely irrational to insist interstellar travel is impossible when we have been on an interstellar trip since the universe congealed and the galaxy and our star formed.

teamcommander
reply to post by eezveeneetee

 

O K.
I'll show my "rebellous side" and agree with the OP that interstellar flight "IS" impossible. The operative word being "IS".

This very same statement could have been, and likely was, made about "heavier than air, powered flying machine" in 1899.
It was likely also made about anyone flying solo across the Atlantic Ocean before WW1.
You see nothing is possible until it has been done.

edit on 14-3-2014 by teamcommander because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-3-2014 by teamcommander because: (no reason given)

I can't prove it...but in my mind --- interstellar travel has been accomplished --- buy my own eyewitness sighting of an alien starship in 1976. Too bad the U.S. government does not want to admit to such truths.

crazyewok
Again your under the delusional premise that the tec we have TODAY will be the tec avalible in 1000 years time.

You're under the delusional premise that people will even be around in 1000 years time. The way things are going, I have a feeling that they won't.

reply to post by Erno86


I am speaking from the stand point of "human understanding".
There have been occasions when I have witnessed things moving through the sky which I would discribe as "unworldly". I have no means of knowing where they came from or when, nor could I tell where they went after I saw them.
I would not presume to state they came from another star system or from just around the corner from my house.
I stated the operative word as being 'is' because I am also speaking of the current times within the current sphere of technological apparatus at hand.

Man, life just get hard when you have to explain things; don't it?

reply to post by eezveeneetee


If I threw a bag of dog crap out of the ISS, unless it hit something, it would travel interstellarly.

If my bag of dog crap can do it, I'm sure aliens might be able to pull it off considering how old the universe is and that we are the new kids on this block.

Cuervo
reply to post by eezveeneetee

 

If I threw a bag of dog crap out of the ISS, unless it hit something, it would travel interstellarly.

No as it would likely end up captured in earth gravity and end up in a stable orbit or more likely a decaying orbit.

You have to get to a escape velocity to escape earths orbit and even then you will end up stuck in solar orbit and after that galactic orbit.