Post Your Chemtrail Photos And Observations Here!

a reply to: IgorMartinez

I answered it twice, but you apparently didn't read far enough. In summer, humidity levels decrease. You don't just need cold for contrail formation, you need humidity. Lower humidity levels, fewer contrails.

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I don't normally photograph contrails but all four of those had contrails spreading out, and all four were above 35,000 feet or so.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Phoenix

That means that as engines are getting more efficient, we're going to see more contrails unless mitigation techniques are developed that don't hurt fuel consumption so badly that it costs billions annually.

As long as climate issue is concentrated on warming I don't expect much opposition to current situation even as it has potential effects on crop production, energy usage/production and overall health of people and environment.

I also happen to believe that MSM/government don't have much longer before the masses cannot overlook the cooling as it becomes undeniable.

At some point a hard look will be taken at aviation's contribution to the upcoming changes climatological as well as political.

I would hope some very smart engineers are working the problem.

Sans that, no action taken whatsoever will add fuel to potential conspiracy that it's with purpose these persistent contrails cover the sky and modify weather.

Think coal fired power plants. Same type regulation could apply but convenience is holding that type of thing at bay for the moment.

a reply to: Phoenix

The problem is that no one knows what effect contrails have on the climate. The three days after 9/11, when there were only military flights over the US, a higher diurnal swing was noted, but three days was nowhere near long enough to get a good dataset. And there's nowhere you can really get good data without shutting down air travel, which isn't going to happen anywhere. For every paper you find saying that contrails cause warming, by trapping radiation and not letting it escape back out of the atmosphere, you can find one saying they cause cooling by preventing solar radiation from getting to the ground, and bouncing it back into space.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I can't disagree that further information would help.

I do know for a fact from experience that the multiple contrails merge into thick haze that does cool things at ground level noticably by several degrees.

I work outdoors all the time so it's personally aggravating on formerly sunny days made uncomfortably cold by the contrails which without a doubt came from recent air traffic near or overhead - I can see it happen and feel the results.

For me it's a discomfort for farmers and solar operators its likely having an economic impact.

Having cut my teeth during space race of the sixties I doubt the issue is unsolvable.

Mexico recently outlawed purposeful weather modification by release of airborne particles known as solar geoengineering so maybe it's a good candidate for measuring any effect.

www.geoengineeringwatch.org...

This is a decent documentary. The evidence presented suggests that chemtrailing and geoengineering operations have been occuring since WW2.

Climate change and global warming will be the excuse that world government's use to begin implementing these operations publicly, but they'll never admit that they've been doing it for decades, and there won't be an, I told you so moment, or an official disclosure, which would indicate a conspiracy took place.

I'm going to listen to multiple voices from multiple backgrounds on this topic, as well as documentation that goes back 100+ years.

Live long and prosper ATS, God knows the government doesn't want you to.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Humidity?

At 40,000ft the outside air has a relative humidity of less than 1%.

Assuming you are being honest, at least in your statement that you know those plane pics you shared were all close to 40,000 feet, and burning nothing but fuel, when their contrails formed with practically no humidity, almost exclusively because the exhaust is so much hotter than the air, can you try again to answer my question, why the contrails go away in the summer, when it is still cold enough for them to form 40000 feet high?

a reply to: IgorMartinez

Contrail formation relies on temperature, relative humidity, and water vapor. How do you think clouds form if there's no humidity in the upper atmosphere? Or are they forming at 10-15,000 feet too?

Contrail occurrence is predicted with confidence, if ambient pressure and relative humidity, water vapour and heat emissions, and propulsive characteristics of aircraft engines are known.

www.nature.com...

Contrails have been a normal effect of jet aviation since its earliest days.
Depending on the temperature and the amount of moisture in the air at the aircraft altitude, contrails evaporate quickly (if the humidity is low) or persist and grow (if the humidity is high). Jet
engine exhaust provides only a small portion of the water that forms ice in persistent contrails.
Persistent contrails are mainly composed of water naturally present along the aircraft flight path.

www.faa.gov...

Contrails are created when the hot water vapor emitted by a jet engine after combustion cools and condenses in Earth's atmosphere, according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The atmosphere's temperature and humidity must be in just the right place for condensation to occur — the air must be cold with some humidity.

Contrails most commonly form at an airplane's cruising altitude, between about 32,000 and 42,000 feet (10,000 to 13,000 meters) in the upper troposphere, per the Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI), because that's where those conditions are found. Because the atmosphere is ever-changing, conditions might not be right for contrail formation at this altitude, which is why not all airplanes create contrails during every flight.

www.space.com...

And once again, in summer, upper level humidity drops. When upper level humidity drops, fewer contrails. It's not a hard concept to understand.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Zaph, it's this right here,

Contrails are created when the hot water vapor emitted by a jet engine after combustion cools and condenses in Earth's atmosphere, according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). 

Any other industry that emissions into the air that changes the environment either gets severely fined, regulated or flat run out business.

Sooner or later the gnomes at EPA will come after aviation.

It's political expedience keeping things at bay and a fair case can be made that EPA doesn't give a wit about economic damages.

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Zaphod58

Zaph, it's this right here,

Contrails are created when the hot water vapor emitted by a jet engine after combustion cools and condenses in Earth's atmosphere, according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). 

Any other industry that emissions into the air that changes the environment either gets severely fined, regulated or flat run out business.

Sooner or later the gnomes at EPA will come after aviation.

It's political expedience keeping things at bay and a fair case can be made that EPA doesn't give a wit about economic damages.

As soon as an alternative exists, I'm sure the EPA and greenies (if they still exist) will go after aviation. But if you stop the planes, you best get really good at zoom meetings.

a reply to: Phoenix

That's the thing though, other industries can be monitored to see how they change the environment. With contrails, they cause cooling during the day, and warming at night, according to most studies. But that's the only affect that is known, according to the studies. They're not pumping large amounts of CO2, or other dangerous chemicals, like other industries have. The other thing is that those other industries have options to change their emissions. The aircraft industry doesn't, and it's too deeply intertwined with society to get rid of it or make radical billion dollar changes quickly. And they would be billion dollar changes.

They are taking steps to mitigate contrail formation however. Studies are being done to see what changes can be made using various fuel alternatives, and how using SAFs affects contrail formation at different altitudes, and how those contrails are different from regular fuel contrails.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I wonder what the conspiracy will look like when there aren't any contrails in the sky?

a reply to: network dude

They'll probably be dancing in the streets thinking they won.

Flying in the military for 28 years I never saw a plane with nozzles as some here suggest is common. You also would need to look at the logistics side of it all in where are the factories and 10,000 of people working in that field? We also have this issue with weight how would a plane carry the chemicals while they carry everything else? A plane just doesn't fly spraying for 1000s of miles...lol

You also need to look at the clouds too. If they are just floating and even growing it is water vapor that is naturally in the air and so that is where they come from and why they seem to keep growing some. Chemicals would be heavy and you would see streaks going down as the chemicals would be much heavier than water and so would sink with no expansion of growth as water vapor does.

All this is just water vapor as you can see it expands and just floats in the air as the winds push it around. If straight streaks were going down towards the earth then it is something else.



Lastly, why not just fly at night, and then no one would see a thing.....

a reply to: Zaphod58

There are little to no clouds that form at 40,000 feet high. Like I said relative humidity there is less than 1%. The few and far between clouds that do form that high are very thin.

I’m not saying that contrails can’t form at 40,000 feet. It’s always cold up there, and presumably any plane cruising at that altitude would always make a contrail.

So I’m asking you, again, where do the contrails over my city go in the summer time?

Could it be, commercial flights do not fly at cruising altitudes of 40,000 feet over my city? When commercial planes are near a city, they are usually taking off, or landing. I don’t think they are cruising over cities.

originally posted by: IgorMartinez

Could it be, commercial flights do not fly at cruising altitudes of 40,000 feet over my city? When commercial planes are near a city, they are usually taking off, or landing. I don’t think they are cruising over cities.

28,000 to 35,000 is typical. I think that is well in the range of the sweet spot where you have the cold air with humidity. It also depends on whether you are closer to the equator, or not.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think you might be pushing the range a bit lower than typical, for commercial jets cruising. Typical range I’m reading is more like 33000 to 42000: a level which is above the weather system: a level where there is almost no humidity.

Anyway, all this debate about altitude may be a bit less than obvious. But I still think “chemtrails” are formed closer to the weather system, not far above it like commercial jets.

An easier to see characteristic of these trails is they never seem last more than several miles.

Presumably a commercial jet, say it is flying from Hawaii to New York, and passes over LA, shouldn’t it be leaving a trail? If you are in LA, that trail would be getting smaller going into the horizon, going east and west, until it becomes to small to see. But that’s not what you see with “chemtrails” which appear to be formed by planes patrolling over cities.

Anyway, I’m not trying to paint a nefarious picture of “chemtrails.” I’m guessing they are doing a good job keeping a roof over my head, and I’d hate to think what would happen if they stopped spraying “chemtrails.”

a reply to: IgorMartinez

why don't you document some of these flights? This is about more than feelz. If you see a trail you are certain is a chemtrail, then identify the plane if possible, and you may be closer to finding the truth. If the "truth" is what you are actually searching for, that is.

a reply to: IgorMartinez

And you're wrong. Again. Cirrus/cirrostratus clouds form between 20-40,000 feet, and thunderstorms can build up much higher than that. Noctilucent clouds can form at up to 280,000 feet. Sometimes they are thin and wispy, and other times they're thicker. Thunderstorms top out above that height. A thunderstorm usually forms between 33-66,000 feet.

Thunderstorms typically reach altitudes above 10,000 metres (33,000 feet) and sometimes more than 20,000 metres (66,000 feet). When the instability is high, the atmosphere moist, and winds favourable, thunderstorms can extend to the tropopause, that is, the boundary between the troposphere and the stratosphere.

That means there's enough humidity in the air for a storm to form at that height. Which means it's much higher than "less than 1%".

You really think that planes get near a city and descend? Planes don't fly from one city to the next, and land. You really think a flight from New York to Los Angeles doesn't cruise over cities between those two? There are always planes over your city. In summer conditions for contrails are not right for them to form as often, whether you believe it or not.

a reply to: IgorMartinez

I have long haul flights come over my house at 29,000 feet. Their filed flight plan is 29,000 feet all the way to their destination. It depends on weather, winds, and other factors as to what their altitude request will be.

A flight from Hawaii to New York will only leave a contrail over LA if conditions are right. If they aren't, no contrail. If they are, contrail.

a reply to: network dude

I don’t know any tools for identifying planes from the ground other than my eyes, and cell phone camera.