Post Your Chemtrail Photos And Observations Here!

Here's some more reading material. I suggest anyone reading this thread to look these 2 documents up.

You can try to lead a horse to water, you can try to make the horse drink, but inevitably, the horse may just be lame.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I don't need an echo chamber, I'm posting in the correct forum/thread, are you? I asked for photos and observations that pertain to the topic, but you came in here a denier, trying to convince people to think like you. Yikes. You do you though, and by the look of it, you collect a variety of forum points. Nice flex, I mean try, but that doesn't make you an expert, so what does?

Listening to contrail science doesn't, and trusting the government's word doesn't. Got any degrees, credentials, certificates? Or just another armchair keyboard warrior?

a reply to: IgorMartinez

Clouds happen at all altitudes. Most clouds are higher than 20,000 feet. I watch planes fly over below that altitude that are below the cloud deck all the time. Contrails aren’t traditional clouds though, so their altitude doesn’t happen at traditional cloud level altitude.

a reply to: NeighborhoodWatch

You mean like your armchair experience? I have over thirty years hands on aviation experience, actually dealing with planes. What do you have? Years of reading the internet? Planes can’t carry enough material to spray thousands of miles that they fly. And they don’t fly high enough for planned geoengineering to take place.

a reply to: Zaphod58

My turn? Cool. A major in History and a minor in English, 4-year degree, valedictorian. A major in Fire Science and a minor in Hydraulics, 2-year degree, valedictorian. 13-years experience, structural firefighter, engineer/pump operator, firefighter I & II certs, rank, lieutenant. Seasonal wildland firefighter, lookout/spotter, red card cert. First responder, EMT cert, ICS cert, HazMat Ops/Awareness cert, Nuclear/Bioweapon Response cert. Yearly CDC, DHS, and FD training, retraining, and recertification. Certified for employment within the fire industry in 38 states. I think that covers my education and work experience. I'm semi retired pushing paper, but life's good. Let's agree to disagree. My time as a lookout/spotter required above average knowledge, understanding, and interpretation of weather patterns and atmospheric conditions, and your time in aviation required the same skills in terms of aircraft.

Me joining this website:


Mods/members claiming facts about theories:

a reply to: NeighborhoodWatch

I realize this can get heated, but I have been involved in this debate for many years now. I also have aviation experience, though only about 5 years worth. So all I really bring to the debate is questions. But they are questions who's answers will solve this puzzle.

1. How do you determine the difference between a persistent contrail and a chemtrail?

2. How could commercial passenger planes carry all that chemical, along with passengers, and luggage?

3. Where do the chemtrail planes get loaded up with chemical?

4. Who works on these planes? I have never seen a job opportunity for Ariel chemical disbursement technician.

5. Why do the trails seem to slow down or stop in the summer time?

I have theories on most of the answers, but I do not have any concrete way to answer them. I suspect someone in the know could, and you seem to have the credentials to be that guy. Thanks in advance for the answers!

a reply to: network dude

1. Air temperature, relative humidity, and whether there's a high or low pressure system in the area. Also, if an aircraft's shape, color, and engines are well-defined, which is subjective, I know, and it's leaving a trail, I potentially consider it too low to be doing so in the first place based on the weather conditions at the time.

2. Commercial airliners can't carry fuel, passengers, luggage, and chemicals. I subscribe to the theory that the planes are military, private, or unmarked.

3. I live 20 minutes from an air base, and there are multiple air bases that are only a few hundred miles apart from each other. Their locations cover 3 nearby states and the planes don't need to fly thousands of miles back and forth to refuel from base to base.

4. I don't know and neither have I. The government is compartmentalized with security clearances and information can be on a need-to-basis. I have a friend from fire academy who works at the nearby air base loading cargo planes. I've never asked him about chemicals, what's he loading/unloading, or what's he seen, but I suppose I will now.

5. I would agree that the trails are less frequent during the summer months, and I don't know why, but they still occur on unseasonably hot days. I've seen low-flying aircraft with trails fly in to and out of fire and dust induced cumulonimbus cloud formations, which is strange.

Thank you.

a reply to: NeighborhoodWatch

2. There are supposedly hundreds, if not thousands of planes supposedly involved. There would be some kind of evidence of them.

3. Pilots have to fly into unfamiliar airfields multiple times a month as part of their currency training. It covers both cross country navigation, flying hours, and practice flying into airfields they aren’t familiar with.

a reply to: NeighborhoodWatch

Think of the logistics involved never mind the coverup that would be necessary.

Chemtrails are pseudoscience and amount to nothing more than contrails.

I've been interested in aviation since late sixties in one form or another.

Was in upstate NY sixties and seventies with lots of commercial and military flights.

In eighties and nineties I was DFW area with huge amounts of air traffic.

The two thousands have been spent in deep south east also with relatively heavy military and commercial aviation.

My chosen careers had me outside most of the time.


In the time prior to late nineties and two thousands I do not remember any persistent contrails, yes there were contrails but they dissipated at varying lengths depending on weather conditions at the time.

Now we'll start work with clear blue sunny conditions and then around lunch hour contrails will form and eventually (1-2 hours) they will spread into an even haze that produces a noticeable temperature drop at ground level - I have come to hate this as we wear black to soak up some warmth on colder days.

My question is what changed around turn of century - prior no persistent contrails, after turn century noticably persistent contrails.

Please don't patronize me with piston era photos as comparison between propulsion is apples and oranges.

Something changed

a reply to: Phoenix

It did. The high bypass turbofan was introduced. High bypass turbofans produce contrails where older engines don’t. And in conditions where it’s close enough to persistent contrail formation, they’ll persist.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Phoenix

It did. The high bypass turbofan was introduced. High bypass turbofans produce contrails where older engines don’t. And in conditions where it’s close enough to persistent contrail formation, they’ll persist.

So basically in a simplified manner high bypass engines that compress large amounts of very cold air form persistent contrails of ice crystals around particulate matter ejected from combustion in the hot section or inner core, is that about right?

a reply to: Phoenix

In a high bypass turbofan, like the GE90-115B on the 777, the air is taken in and compressed, but up to 90% goes around the core of the engine instead of through the engine. It mixes with the hot air coming from the exhaust, and rapidly cools it, making it more likely to leave a contrail.

a reply to: NeighborhoodWatch

Thanks for the honest answer. I can't tell you how rare it is to have an actual dialog on this.

If you really want the truth and not just confirmation bias, I can tell you a way to find it, and based on your answers, you will have no trouble believing the truth as you have most of the facts needed.

Flight Aware is a way to track planes you see in real time. Zaphod58 can likely help you understand what you are looking at better than I, but if you are sure you can identify what you consider to be a chemtrail by sight alone, then spend a few minutes identifying the plane. You won't always be able to, as some flights are secret spray ops or something (JOKE) but if you find that you can see a commercial plane leaving a "chemtrail", then you will have to re-evaluate at least some of what you thought you knew.

And if you have friends in the USAF, ask them. If this is real, someone knows something.

And just to be clear, I believe the white lines we see are contrails. That isn't to say they aren't/won't do things like Geo-engineering, just that what we see, isn't that.

If you dive into what SRM is, and the proposed plans, some that may even be ongoing, you find that the flight levels they would pump out particulates is well above normal flight levels, and it wouldn't be noticeable from the ground most likely. David Keith was one of the pioneers of the SRM technology, so looking into him would give you some great knowledge.

I think it's smart to pay close attention to all this, I believe that Geo-Engineering has a chance to really screw our planet up, and it shouldn't be done by anyone, but I don't get to make that call. I do wish that all the people that put so much effort into fearing contrails, would put half as much into keeping an eye on what IS actually happening, so we could all have a say in what we don't want. But I could be wrong, and Dane Wiggington might not be a huge scammer, I just doubt that's the case at this point.

a reply to: network dude

ADS-B Exchange is the better site to use for identifying planes. FlightRadar24 has a decent AR system that, if they're broadcasting, gives you a decent idea of where they are if you can't see them yet. But they block a lot of the LADD planes, where ADS-B Exchange doesn't.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Seems to me you are skirting the point.

At commercial flight cruising altitude of ~ 40000 feet, such as your plane pictured, the trails don’t spread out.

At a lower altitude of ~ 15000 feet, the trails spread out.

That is why I stick to my point that “chemtrails” are being formed by planes cruising at lower altitudes than commercial flights.

Another observation is I never see “chemtrails” in the summer.

Do the planes stop spraying? I now doubt it. It just doesn’t get cold enough at an altitude of ~ 15000 feet for trails to form in the summer.

a reply to: IgorMartinez

And you're wrong. I see plenty of contrails forming above 35,000 feet that spread out. I work outside and watch them all day when I'm at work, and track the planes a lot. They're all above 32,000 feet, and the contrails spread out and form a cloud deck some days, and don't spread others, and dissipate quickly on other days.

There's less humidity in summer months. There are no contrails that form at 15,000 feet, except in extreme cold areas like Siberia.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Phoenix

In a high bypass turbofan, like the GE90-115B on the 777, the air is taken in and compressed, but up to 90% goes around the core of the engine instead of through the engine. It mixes with the hot air coming from the exhaust, and rapidly cools it, making it more likely to leave a contrail.

Ok, I observed a change from non-persistent to persistent contrails around turn of century using 50+ year almost daily personal observation.

The idea that is due engine changes exclusively from low bypass turbines to high bypass turbines is one I'm having some difficulty with due to fact that airframes such as 747, 757, 767, L1011, DC-10 just to name a few were in service from early seventies through late nineties and beyond using engines such as P&W JT9D which are high bypass.

I bring that question not to be argumentive but to debate and hopefully add information to the subject.

I am pro aviation but do wonder that maybe another element is involved such as fuel.

It also would seem the industry has a future liability hanging out there especially if the politics around climate warming were to change which is a possibility down the road when folks figure out it's the other way around.

So if persistent contrails are just happenstance by product of engine design then someone at sometime will be able to prove an economic loss or a health effect due to reduction of solar energy and it would seem to me a problem looking for solutions before it gets litigated.

If on other hand the persistent contrails are by purpose then eventually truth will be found and there'll be hell to pay.

a reply to: Phoenix

The JT9D was the first high bypass turbofan, but around the 90s newer high bypass turbofans were introduced that were massively more efficient. To give an example, the JT9D-7R4 had an overall pressure ratio of 26.7, and a bypass ratio of 4.8:1. The JT3D was an early turbofan, used on the 707 family and a few others. It had an overall pressure ratio of 16:1, and a bypass ratio of 1.42:1

The GE90 family, introduced in the 1990s had a pressure ratio of 40:1, and a bypass ratio of 8.4-9 for the -76B/77B/85B/90B/94B, and a pressure ratio of 42:1, and a bypass ratio of 9 for the -110B1/113B/115B. That means they were far more efficient than the JT9D, which means they were going to leave more contrails. The GEnx, used on the 747-8 and 787 has a take-off bypass ratio of 8.0-9.3 depending on variant, and a take-off overall pressure ratio of 43.8/46.3/47.4/44.7 depending on variant. The GE9x, used on the new 777 has an OPR of 60:1 and 27:1 at the high pressure compressor and a bypass ratio of 9.9:1.

The other big difference is that the JT9D was used on large, long haul aircraft, that were in relative small numbers, compared to the total number of aircraft flying. Now, just about everything uses a high bypass turbofan, including fairly short haul aircraft.

That means that as engines are getting more efficient, we're going to see more contrails unless mitigation techniques are developed that don't hurt fuel consumption so badly that it costs billions annually.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Got any pics of rapidly spreading contrails at ~ 40,000 feet which you can confirm? The pic you shared earlier was not spreading much.

Also, can you answer my question about where the contrails go in summer? It is still cold enough at 40,000 feet to make a contrail even in summer months.