Deciphering the Pagan Stones

a reply to: Wifibrains

Ho ho! Look at that! Now there's synchronicity.
(I see what you mean about other rays now, I'm a bit slow with things like that, I assumed you meant the sun.)

I don't know about Picts, but those images do make me think about the Viking sunstones that they used for navigating.
Hmmm....

Apparently Polaris wasn't the pole star for the Picts.

[

In the Roman era, the celestial pole was about equally distant from α Ursae Minoris (Cynosura) and β Ursae Minoris (Kochab).
α Ursae Minoris was described as αει φανης "always visible" by Stobaeus in the 5th century, when it was still removed from the celestial pole by about 8°.

So equidistant between the great bear and the little bear.



Look closely at the great bear:



Now bear with me (sorry. Sorry)

If you look at it's tail (join of the handle of the big dipper) you'll notice it has a 'plume' or horn going upwards towards the right. It also has a snout, meeting the 'plume' (at the join of the handle) but going downwards for 4 stars. It's really cloudy tonight, but I'll need to have a look on a clear night and see how viable this idea is - the Beastie constellation.

It could be that the pole star was at the end of the plume???

Oooh, I think I've cracked the Beastie!!!!

I’m referring in this case to Celtic mythology and traditions, which bind the stories of the night sky to events, symbols, literature and cultural trappings which are very much a part of life in Britain today.

The whole article is worth a read, in my opinion, it's superb.

Under a Celtic Sky

The entire assembly starts with Bootes the herdsman, that role now taken by Hu Gadarn, moves in a line through Ursa Major and comes down through Auriga to Taurus the oxen. If Hu is handling the plough, then it is easy to see why the seven stars of Ursa Major are so named in British tradition, although why Auriga is seen as the link to the oxen is now lost. In Welsh folk tales, Hu Gadarn rescues the land from a fearful monster, the Afanc (associated with Scorpius). He drew the Afanc out of Llyn Llion by use of his oxen and dragged it to Llyn y Ffynnon Las, where it is magically imprisoned. As the scorpion is unknown in western Europe, the Greek constellation of Scorpius became the Afanc or Beaver to the Celts.

As the Afanc is dragged through the sky, spring and summer return. But what is an Afanc?

The Afanc (Welsh pronunciation: [ˈavank], sometimes also called Addanc, [ˈaðank]) is a lake monster from Welsh mythology. Its exact description varies; it is described variously as resembling a crocodile, beaver or dwarf-like creature, and is sometimes said to be a demon.

The afanc was a monstrous creature that, like most lake monsters, was said to prey upon any foolish enough to fall into or swim in its lake.

Wiki Afanc

Afancs galore

But we have an Afanc, it's called a Kelpie. Notice now the constellation of Scorpio:





It's an Afanc!!!!!

How now! That's as good an explanation as any I've heard to be honest. Good find.

a reply to: beansidhe

I see ya! Nice find bean.

Sounds very plausible, I can see the head shape in the constellation.

a reply to: Wifibrains
a reply to: Ramcheck

It does make sense, doesn't it? I'm sure it's where the tales of Afancs and Kelpie's come from. The learned would know the stories were metaphors for the movements of the stars, the masses would believe the stories, but nonetheless keep the stories alive and moving through generations.

I'm so excited, lol!

Iolo Morganwg

According to a version of an afanc legend as put forth by the famous writer of myths and folklore Edward Williams known as Iolo Morganwg, its thrashings caused massive flooding which ultimately drowned all inhabitants of Britain save for two people, Dwyfan and Dwyfach, from whom the later inhabitants of Prydain descended.

According to one version of the myth, also put forth by Iolo Morgannwg, Hu Gadarn's oxen dragged the afanc out of the lake; once it was out of the water, it was powerless and could be killed. This version locates the creature in Llyn Llion.

Afanc wiki

More evidence (for me, at least) that Iolo Morganwg was simply repeating old legends and was not a forger.

The afanc/kelpie then did not originally kill individual people who walked too near the water's edge - it wrought destruction on nations in the form of a flood. More hints at a comet/natural disaster in the early dark ages.

There was a sign from the sun, the like of which had never been seen and reported before. The sun became dark and its darkness lasted for 18 months. Each day, it shone for about four hours, and still this light was only a feeble shadow. Everyone declared that the sun would never recover its full light again.
Historiae Ecclesiasticae
Between the years 535 and 536, a series of major global climatic events that took place that could easily be described as a global cataclysm with catastrophic consequences. The above abstract is from the sixth century historian and church leader, John of Ephesus, in his historical work, Church Histories (‘Historiae Ecclesiasticae’).

Ancient origins

a reply to: beansidhe


I hope you have cracked it as it has been a keen interest of yours from just about day one of this thing. Fits in with some of the other things we have looked at.

By the way this thread has been running 4 months and a week plus a few. wow. I believe with only one day with no posts. More wow. ATS live coverage of this thread was shall we say....less than could reasonably be expected....or as we saw round here, lame. LOL

a reply to: Logarock

Yeah well more kudos for us for sticking with it! We can go the distance unlike those fly-by-nights, lol!

I'm almost certain the beastie is an afanc/scorpio - I would need a pretty good explanation to convince me otherwise. It does fit in, I think we're on the right track here.

It's exciting!!

a reply to: beansidhe

It does sort of look like an human embryo. Well sorta.

Yea I have been meaning to hunker down again. I got my old "Nazareth" cds out the other day and have been listening to "Back to the Trenches". I saw those guy back in the 70's and the place when wild when they broke out the pipes. Oh wait that was AC/DC but those boys were born in Scotland to. Yes wait Nazareth does a bit on the rock pipes.





Scotland.....Graveyard of Roman Legions. Expect no Mercy!

a reply to: Logarock

Ha ha ha! Graveyard of Roman legions, lol!
You've seen AC/DC? Bet they were amazing live.
I need to go back to some folklore, because it turns out the stories are still around - I'm pretty sure the rest of the symbols can be explained this way too.

a reply to: beansidhe

Beans,
putting on my best "Butlins entertainer" accent here...

"afanc you, afanc you, afanc you very much!"

Definitely the best beastie origin possibility yet!

YAY!
G

a reply to: beansidhe

It just occurred to me that the basic energy of the myth of the afanc are very similar to the lady in the lake, mermaids, fairies, and even some goddesses, ect.

I was wondering are there any stories of people taming and riding them, like in the unicorn myths. And the movie avatar/dragon trainer...



Well I guess I allready answered my own question.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Lol

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

I have resisted that joke for almost 24 hours now, but it is funny, I will admit that!
Everyone seems happy with Scorpio/Afanc so let's go with it unless something better crops up. It feels right, it 'fits' with the Picts. I'm convinced, lol!

a reply to: Wifibrains

There's loads for Kelpies - if you held it by it's bridle you could control it, rather than just climbing onto it's back straight away - then it would take you under the water in a loch and drown you.

It's definitely credited with being part of the Sidh - the fairy folk - the otherworld people. It might be though, that otherworld and skyworld have more links than we thought. The 'Under a Celtic Sky' article, written by a lecturer of Astronomy at Glamorgan University seems to think so.

There was one way in which a Kelpie could be defeated and tamed; the Kelpies power of shape shifting was said to reside in its bridle, and anybody who could claim possession of it could force the Kelpie to submit to their will. A Kelpie in subjugation was highly prized, it had the strength of at least 10 horses and the endurance of many more, but the fairy races were always dangerous captives especially those as malignant as the Kelpie. It was said that the MacGregor clan were in possession of a Kelpies bridle, passed down through the generations from when one of their clan managed to save himself from a Kelpie near Loch Slochd.

Mysterious Britain

a reply to: beansidhe

Oh bean that is two much confirmation in one go. Please...

Lol.

Thank you.

Leviathan in the bible must be a fire breathing kelpie. It says to take him by his bridle or bore a thorn through his jaw. One makes him a slave, the other a sort of friend/ partner.

Makes sense.

White or black magic.

a reply to: Wifibrains

Really? That is interesting. That's where they must have got the idea of the bridle from. Scorpio/Afanc was the constellation dragged through the sky by Bootes/Hu Gadarn; the leviathon story got mashed up in there too and Kelpies were born.

There is more in these stones than I thought possible at first. Another old testament tale, I notice.

Probably completely unrelated... but I thought the gang might like to see it anyway?
At our recent "Gathering" on Isle of Cumbrae there were some awesome natural shapes in the rocks at the seafront!
So, I took a few snaps...
Here's my favourite one!! (I've slightly brightened part of the image to highlight what I "see" there!! Wooooooohh!! LOL)

CLICK to ENLARGE!

cheers!
G

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Even on holiday you can't help but decipher stones? That's funny!

This might explain two things in one go. From the same article, 'Under a Celtic Sky'.

...historical associations still remain today and none can be so powerfully epitomised as the legend of Bran the Giant. Bran is the brother of Branwen, daughter of the sea god Llyr. Branwen is married off to the king of Ireland, but is mistreated, leading to war between the Britons and Irish. The Irish king Maddolwch is defeated but Bran is mortally wounded by a poisoned arrow. He asks his followers to cut off his head and bury it in London, with his face to the south to stop the land being invaded.

If one recalls the Celtic belief that souls become birds, then Bran’s soul becomes a raven and his burial place, Bran’s tumulus, is now the site of the Tower of London. Tradition tells us that if the ravens desert the Tower, then the land will fall to foreign invaders, giving us an entertaining story and direct link back to Celtic mythology and the starry sky as the constellation of Corvus, the Crow, or “Bran’s raven” as the ancient Britons knew it.

Bran's soul became a raven - a birdman? Are the birdmen on the stones souls?



Anyway, Bran like others in folktales (Cerridwen, the tuatha de Danaan etc) had a cauldron.

The cauldron can resurrect the corpse of dead warriors placed inside it (this scene is believed to be depicted on the Gundestrup Cauldron). Bran gives his sister Branwen and her new husband Math — the King of Ireland — the cauldron as a wedding gift, but when war breaks out Bran sets out to take the valuable gift back. He is accompanied by a band of a loyal knights with him, but only seven return home.

celticmythpodshow.com...

That is also shown on our stones, although I have read that it shows the Picts boiling their victims (as they did - boiled Romans aplenty???????). Regeneration is certainly a druid teaching - we think -and sounds much more likely than 'boiling':



Is this then a cauldron?



Carved in stone as a magic wish for regeneration?