The Louisiana Public School Cramming Christianity Down Students’ Throats

reply to post by Bone75


You know I already replied to you once with links showing that it is a PUBLIC school we are talking about.

In case you missed that post here it is again.

Maybe you were confused by the word parish however Sabine Parish, Louisiana is just a place like there are roads named Church ST it doesn't mean the place is owned by a church or a parish.

As an example churchstreetbars

Bone75

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Bone75

 

If I were a parent I would expect a public school to be better than to demean students based on their beliefs, but maybe I expect too much from our schools? That's the point of state funded schools isn't it? To treat all children equally?

edit on 1/30/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

The arguments people present here never cease to amaze me. I am the father of 5 amazing little Christians. If I were to enroll one of them in a Buddhist school, not only would I be considered a bad parent, but not a single freaking one of you would jump to our defense if my kid claimed his teacher called his religion stupid... not one of you.

Well to me it seems clear the purpose of the thread was not to demonize Christians. The purpose of it was to point out that this kid was being treated unfairly.

This kid was being looked down on and being called stupid for his beliefs, and would be forced to accept Christian dogmas in order to advance himself in his class. I won't favor one religion over the next. Forcing people to acknowledge anything is a recipe for disaster.

Fear not though, I would defend you if you or your family would be treated unfairly. But come on, don't try and make it into some kind of guilt trip.

reply to post by Bone75


The school doesn't exactly advertise itself as Christian now does it? If say it did, then I would say the parents were at fault, but it doesn't.

And yes, if another PUBLIC (key word) school was pushing Buddhism on their kids then I would be just as outraged because it would be just as equally against the law and Constitution.

I think the fact that you yourself are Christian is the reason you see this as no big deal and keep making excuses for the school. When you look at the situation objectively then you would see it as wrong. You'd be outraged if this were an Islam school doing the same thing, but since it's your faith you defend it and make excuses.

It's not a fair debate if you keep setting double standards.

reply to post by flammadraco


That was a wonderful blob of pointless rhetorical anecdotes there Flammadraco. It in no way constitutes evidence for what your statement. The scientific method and statistical analysis in the department of sociology would better argue your point.

Example of what might lend any sort of credibility to your claims;

Religion and Life Satisfaction Worldwide: The Role of Government Regulation*
socrel.oxfordjournals.org...

(1) personal religious identity is positively associated with life satisfaction throughout the world, but the association increases in size under conditions of greater governmental regulation; and, (2) the association between participation in organized religion and life satisfaction is positive under conditions of low government regulation, is attenuated as government regulation increases, and becomes negative when government regulation is high.

This study indicates that your claim is false as greater government restriction reduces perceptions of life satisfaction.
In 1981 the United Nations began efforts counter to what you are proposing.

Advancing the Freedom of Religion or Belief Through the Un Declaration on the Elimination of Religious Intolerance and Discrimination; Sullivan, Donna J.
heinonline.org.../ajil82&div=38&id=&page=


The Role of Subjective Well-Being in Positive Youth Development
Nansook Park, University of Rhode Island
ann.sagepub.com...

...
Life satisfaction is the cognitive component of subjective well-being and plays an important role in positive development as an indicator, a predictor, a mediator/moderator, and an out-come. Whereas low life satisfaction is associated with psychological, social, and behavior problems, high life satisfaction is related to good adaptation and optimal mental health among youth.

There are plenty of ways to get access to the article if you do not have a sage account. There are also many more links below the journal to actual studies which you could use to actually support your claim.

Religious Effects on Health Status and Life Satisfaction among Black Americans
psychsocgerontology.oxfordjournals.org...

This study tests a theoretical model linking religiosity, health status, and life satisfaction using data from the National Survey of Black Americans, a nationally representative sample of Blacks at least 18 years old. Findings reveal statistically significant effects for organizational religiosity on both health and life satisfaction, for nonorganizational religiosity on health, and for subjective religiosity on life satisfaction.

Do you see the difference between citing actual studies and just stating your opinion as if it were fact?

-FBB


EDIT
I don't expect much rationality or honesty from someone making claims like these;

Flammadraco
Religion is the cause of all evil on this planet and now "Christian Radicalism" has come to the US, such a shame.

Only if you want illiterate Children who cannot put art & literature into context.

I firmly believe all religious mythology should be taught in mythology class-- the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, etc... kids should learn about these things to put them in their historical context.

No religion should be taught as a religion in schools though.

FriedBabelBroccoli
This study indicates that your claim is false as greater government restriction reduces perceptions of life satisfaction.

Maybe it's just me but I didn't see his statement as meaning government restriction of religion but instead more like common courtesy on the part of the individual to keep their religion out of other peoples faces.

rupertg
Only if you want illiterate Children who cannot put art & literature into context.

I firmly believe all religious mythology should be taught in mythology class-- the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, etc... kids should learn about these things to put them in their historical context.

No religion should be taught as a religion in schools though.

When I was in high school, we did have a mythology class. It was optional though. I never took it personally, but I would walk past the class room going to and from my algebra class. I also knew a few people that took the course.

However, it was only focused at Roman/Greek mythology. But back when these stories and "myths" were popular, these people didn't consider them to be myths. They literally believed them. So I find it a little funny how some people have deemed some beliefs to be "myths" and others not. How did they come to that conclusion so boldly?

daskakik
Maybe it's just me but I didn't see his statement as meaning government restriction of religion but instead more like common courtesy on the part of the individual to keep their religion out of other peoples faces.

That sounds a lot like the fundamentalist rhetoric about homosexuals keeping their homosexuality out of the public and people's faces.

What justification is there?
Someone might be offended?

Also note that they did not deny it, just reviewing their post history shows they are not presenting their case with civility or evidence. It is very similar to the religious rhetoric constantly being used as reason to antagonize "sinners."

Flammadraco
Religion is the cause of all evil on this planet and now "Christian Radicalism" has come to the US, such a shame.

Just replace 'religion' with 'homosexual' and 'Christian' with 'gay' and you have almost word for word any speech given by the Westboro Baptists.

This type of divisive and hateful rhetoric should not go unchallenged or supported by evidence.

Period.

-FBB

Double post.

We had mythology it was part of social studies classes. I always found it boring because it was also mixed in with memorizing the different types of columns in Greece. I only took an interest in any of it after I finished highschool.

FriedBabelBroccoli
That sounds a lot like the fundamentalist rhetoric about homosexuals keeping their homosexuality out of the public and people's faces.

What justification is there?
Someone might be offended?

Also note that they did not deny it, just reviewing their post history shows they are not presenting their case with civility or evidence. It is very similar to the religious rhetoric constantly being used as reason to antagonize "sinners."

Sure does. That seems to be the natural order of things.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Seems to me that your just detailing the topic of this thread with nonsense.

My post was my opinion and never once stated it was fact. Fact is though "Christian Radicalism" is taking over America and your points on freedom of religion contradicts what the original OP stated about a teacher discriminating against a student for their religious believes.

I stand by what I have as said that religion has caused more issues on this planet than anything else. If you cannot see that for yourself, then I'm not going to point out the obvious. It is people on here claiming to be Christian that give the religion such a bad name. I personally believe in Deism and as such believe in god, but not a man made religion which gives its followers the believe that they think they are better than everyone else.

If you have something to add, let's keep it on topic, or does the truth hurt your religious opinion.

Perhaps you could answer the simple question I have now asked twice before;

"If the religion in the OP was swapped for Islam, would you and other Christians in this thread have the same opinion"

Such a simple question but it's obviously to hard to answer as it would probably show the double standards Christians on this thread have.

Finally, you state "That was a wonderful blob of pointless rhetorical anecdotes there Flammadraco" does the term pot kettle, black mean anything to you? And taking my responses from other threads is the best you can do?

daskakik

FriedBabelBroccoli
This study indicates that your claim is false as greater government restriction reduces perceptions of life satisfaction.

Maybe it's just me but I didn't see his statement as meaning government restriction of religion but instead more like common courtesy on the part of the individual to keep their religion out of other peoples faces.

I never mentioned government involvement as you quite rightly pointed out, but when folk have nothing else to attack they see things that are not there.

FriedBabeBroccoli seems to be able to copy and paste loads of text that is totally irrelevant to the thread and yet has not once answered a question put to them, instead they ask for prove and evidence of an opinion. Using this same line of thinking then surely we should all be asking for prove and evidence that Christianity was from the "Word of God" and not as I believe a tool to install law and order into an ancient civilizations. Perhaps they can show me prove that their messiah fed thousands of people from one loaf of bread and walked on water and arose from the dead and the list goes on. The only evidence Christians have of this is a book written 1690 years ago which was 324 years after Christ died by a bunch of men who could not agree on what to put into the bible and what to omit including the fact that most of these men did not even agree that Christ was in fact the messiah or the son of god.

Text "Pot, Kettle, Black" springs to mind. Your previous post accused 3NLIG and others who don't want Christian Dogma shoved down their throats of supporting the 911 attacks. I would not be surprised if you were a supporter of the Westboro Church with your "Radical" assumptions. Just like other Christians on this thread you have failed to answer one simple question; "Lets pretend for argument sake that the school in the OP was a School teaching Islam to your children paid for by your tax dollars, would you still have the same opinion?

reply to post by flammadraco


@ 3NLIG
You have absolutely no comprehension in understanding what you read. I did not accuse you or any other Arabs who are innocent of murder, in the connection of the Arab's murdering over 3,000 people in 9/11. Either you have difficulty in understanding the English language or you love to fan the fires of hate.

You seem to ignore that I stated and I quote "If this accusation is true in that these officials of the Sabine Parish schools are guilty of the accusations against them then they should be not only punished but should also be replaced."

If you read in context you will understand that I hate no one but I dislike dishonesty and you reek of dishonesty to say the least. To answer your latest question which is stated above. Yes I would dislike Islam being taught in public schools unless it is taught in a proper venue. An example would be a study of all major religions or as many as could be taught in a proper way and time. I see nothing wrong in presentation of religion in the proper manner with the consent of the school boards and the children. There are some children who are interested in religions and some are not. Perhaps an age factor should be considered. I do not believe a sixth grade child would comprehend a religious course but that is only my opinion.

All of this said does not excuse hatred. Apparently you have a hatred for Christians because you have shown this in your presentation. That is your prerogative but when you publicize this hatred on an open forum with thousands of viewers reading your belief then you should realize that there are some, such myself, who will disagree. To be fair with yourself and others you may want to realize that you can become tolerant and considerate even in disagreement. Wishing you well -----------------

reply to post by Seede


You said

"Are you as upset with Muslim murderers as you seem to be with loving people such as Christians? Sorry, it just doesn't add up in my way of thinking. Did you shout as loud in protest to the Arabs who slaughtered over 3,000 souls in 9/11? I believe you have another agenda other than what you are trying to portray."

These were your words and something that had no relevance to the OP. With that in mind why say it?

And whilst I do not hate religion per sa as it has its place in giving people of faith comfort, I do HATE the Radical extremist of all religions as they seem to think that their religion gives them the right to think they are better than anyone else and they have the right to OPPRESS non believers. As said before in this thread i believe in Deism but not man made religion and as such I don't want Christian Dogma or any other religious Dogma shoved down my throat at every given opportunity. Live and let live

You see this all the time on these threads where someone uses their religion as the reasoning behind being a BIGOT. Perhaps if we lived in a World where someone's personal religious believes were kept private, then we would all get along much better, and this is proven by the fact that the most heated debates here on ATS always seems to be because of religion and I am sure you will agree with that.

DP

DP

Text "Pot, Kettle, Black" springs to mind. Your previous post accused 3NLIG and others who don't want Christian Dogma shoved down their throats of supporting the 911 attacks. I would not be surprised if you were a supporter of the Westboro Church with your "Radical" assumptions. Just like other Christians on this thread you have failed to answer one simple question; "Lets pretend for argument sake that the school in the OP was a School teaching Islam to your children paid for by your tax dollars, would you still have the same opinion?

reply to post by flammadraco


@ flammadraco

As you can see the above post to @ 3NLIG was meant to have been posted to 3NLIG as well as to flammadraco. My admitted mistake. No, I am not a member of any religious organization much less your Westboro Church and I have never said that I was a Christian. There is that kangaroo mentality surfacing once again. One day you may break a leg jumping to conclusions. Wishing you the best.

flammadraco
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

My post was my opinion and never once stated it was fact. Fact is though "Christian Radicalism" is taking over America and your points on freedom of religion contradicts what the original OP stated about a teacher discriminating against a student for their religious believes.

Yeah . . . your opinion is not fact, but you are going to state another opinion as fact without any supporting evidence.

I stand by what I have as said that religion has caused more issues on this planet than anything else. If you cannot see that for yourself, then I'm not going to point out the obvious. It is people on here claiming to be Christian that give the religion such a bad name. I personally believe in Deism and as such believe in god, but not a man made religion which gives its followers the believe that they think they are better than everyone else.

I would challenge you to actually count the number of religion threads based on attacking gays against the number of threads where the explicit goal is to rally against religious people on ATS. I have noticed that it is usually crowds like yours who spew your rhetoric about religious people that are the source of most the controversy.

Or make an attempt at this. If you ever picked up a history book and honestly engaged it you would realize how full of it you are.

If you have something to add, let's keep it on topic, or does the truth hurt your religious opinion.

See, now you are accusing me of being religious when all I did was ask you to provide any supporting evidence for your opinion. Then people like you and the OP start attacking me for asking for evidence.

If you can't support claims like you have made then your opinion is BUll-S$%#.

Perhaps you could answer the simple question I have now asked twice before;
"If the religion in the OP was swapped for Islam, would you and other Christians in this thread have the same opinion"
Such a simple question but it's obviously to hard to answer as it would probably show the double standards Christians on this thread have.

I already provided my answer to the topic in my first reply;

"For the record it really is not the place of a public school to be going to such extremes to promote the area's religious culture."

Finally, you state "That was a wonderful blob of pointless rhetorical anecdotes there Flammadraco" does the term pot kettle, black mean anything to you? And taking my responses from other threads is the best you can do?

You have repeated this phrase several times in this thread.

All I did was ask for evidence to support your opinion and the closest things I got was that "its obvious." Which in the real world means you don't have any evidence are engaging in delusional thought.

I suppose we should all just embrace ignorance and believe whatever hateful rhetoric is spewed, because it is obvious . . . you know?

-FBB

You said "Are you as upset with Muslim murderers as you seem to be with loving people such as Christians? Sorry, it just doesn't add up in my way of thinking. Did you shout as loud in protest to the Arabs who slaughtered over 3,000 souls in 9/11? I believe you have another agenda other than what you are trying to portray." These were your words and something that had no relevance to the OP. With that in mind why say it?

reply to post by flammadraco


@ flammadraco

Yes those were my words directed to the Op in comparative language. I did not use the word Islam but used the words Arabs and Muslims in comparison to the OP usage of Christians. The meaning should be clear to any one of knowledge of basic English. The Op (in my opinion) presented his or her thread in insinuating that this ACLU directive was true without presentation of both sides of the accusation. That is wrong and was a deliberate insinuation that the school and school board was wrong. That is not honest in any way that you look at it.

If this trial had found that the accusations were true then the OP would have been justified in a fair presentation of this matter. But not to group all Christianity in one target. That is unfair and not true at all. A fair presentation would be to name the Christian organization or organizations for what they are. There are many Christian organizations that take offense in Christian Bashing and which do not resemble one another except to say that they are Christ Jesus followers. That should be realized by you and the OP as well as others. Just as all atheists are not on the same page, all Christians are not on the same page. How are we going to build a 1st class civilization with this nation fanning the flames of discord at ever turn of the corner?
Don't you think that tolerance is required to build? Regardless of what you or I believe we both should be tolerant of the other.
Wishing you well.