The Louisiana Public School Cramming Christianity Down Students’ Throats

Until Jesus heals an amputee Christianity doesn't have a leg to stand on.

FriedBabelBroccoli


1) No these people wanted to rule themselves and publicly practice their religion (ie the state).
2) Yes that is exactly what was posted earlier in the thread about people being free to practice whatever religion they wanted but that science should be what is taught officially.
3) Exactly my point! There are people in here claiming religion is the source of all evil or that it should be oppressed. I am pointing out, as history shows, that the same horrors are going to happen regardless.

-FBB

First you do not need to bold your post to get your point across...


You have an interesting phrase in your post "the state"

One thing that people have lost sight of is we are a united states, a republic, and not a democracy.

"A Republic is representative government ruled by law (the Constitution). A democracy is direct government ruled by the majority (mob rule). A Republic recognizes the inalienable rights of individuals while democracies are only concerned with group wants or needs (the public good)."


What this means is you can move to a state that is more inline with your view/choices. What many of us on ATS are reading more and more is the ideal that all should be Govern the same, i.e federal Government, and this is totally against what America is all about. If you do not like a town with two churches for every 3 people then move to California or some like state and live your life as you see fit. When we dictate as a democracy then there is no place to move to when you are forced to live a certain way.

One thing that people need to ask themselves is how can 330 million people live together with 1000 different views, and in the WHOLE rest of the world they can't, only in America do we have this ability, and many of you want to destroy that.

Religion is only as evil as man makes it, it is not the other way around. I don't see the masses here complaining about extreme liberal views that would destroy America that most of our colleges preach harder than a southern Baptist minster on his best day can do.

So a person doesn't like how some part of our country views is the correct way to live....BIG DEAL!! Just maybe there are millions that most likely disagree with their views too on how they think they should live. Destroy choice and you destroy America plain and simple, so have tolerance on the views of others and hopefully they do the same to you. In saying "you" I'm not directing this at FBB but the whole.

FriedBabelBroccoli
1) I never said that they were any better than the young turks, they exiled almost one million muslims fighting in the area. The region would later be involved in another murderous campaign against muslims.

Not sure who they are but, I get the feeling that you mean the groups that came after. Why would the original idea be blamed for policies put into effect after the fact?

2) Basically the official stance of the turks was to keep your religion to yourself while the state publicly supported science.

Yes but they couldn't get people to agree which resulted in conflict.

Is your issue that the state of people keeping their religion private and out of public never occurred. This should be an extremely telling point as I highlighted earlier by comparing it to the plight of the homosexual community. Bot being allowed to publicly express your beliefs (or way of life) is extremely damaging to the psyche and every society that has attempted such was usually very dysfunctional.

I guess it would be a question of where one person's right ends and that of another begins.

3) Are you considering the US a secular government? Look towards unjustified wars in Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc and all the deaths there.

Does a secular government exist that fits your criteria, or is it yet to have manifested?

I do consider the US a secular government, although at times there seems to be a bit of pressure to step beyond that. There are also others.

Unjustified wars have nothing to do with a persons right to hold their own religious beliefs.

reply to post by Xtrozero


A republic recognizes the inalienable rights of individuals? Is that why, in a republic, that certain people have more say than others?

And again- freedom of religion and expression has nothing to do with religion in schools

aoxomoxoa

And again- freedom of religion and expression has nothing to do with religion in schools

So say you....why not?

Colleges can teach extreme liberal ideals just because the professors happen to be extreme liberals.... I guess that is ok...

I'm not religious in the least, but I find it funny that your post basically suggest religion is ok as long as it is locked away behind close doors...

CagliostroTheGreat

No, teaching morality is fine, great even but since when does one need a religious text to develop a strong moral compass?

The answer, of course, is never.

Besides if students need to rely on state employees to aid in the development of said morals then that should be immediately indicative that something is fundamentally broken in our society.

The morals of our schools are at such a high level I agree with you....Wait what morals?

You can actually put morals and school in the same sentence? Doesn't that break some kind of grammar rule?

reply to post by Xtrozero


Are you saying liberal ideals are a religion because you seem to be.

I am just trying to understand your thinking here because I see those things as being very different.



Remove the word liberal so I guess you could simplify it all to any set of ideals.


So do you feel any set of ideals are the same as a religion?

Grimpachi

Are you saying liberal ideals are a religion because you seem to be.

I am just trying to understand your thinking here because I see those things as being very different.

I'm saying views are views...religious or not. You can experience them all and make your own choice.

We have seen the 99%er leave college after 4 to 10 years and 70k in debt with the views of their professors that there is a 100k job waiting for them. How did that work for them? They don't blame the schools they blame the system, because that is what the professor "crammed" into their heads for years....

I think the kid that sees bible versus on the walls is the least of our troubles...

reply to post by Xtrozero


I am sorry but I think you just skirted my question.

If you feel religion is the least of our problems or not it still doesn't belong in public education that has been ruled on already.

You seem to be equating a set of ideals to religion and I am pretty sure they are not the same.

Every religion does have its own set of ideals true but it also involves worship and that is pretty universal.

Ideals change with society. IMO with religion society changes.

Anyway do you realy think a set of ideals be it left, right, up, or down is the same thing as religion A,B, or C?

Grimpachi

Anyway do you realy think a set of ideals be it left, right, up, or down is the same thing as religion A,B, or C?

Why would they be different? Is the kid forced to worship? Isn't worship an individual choice? Do they knock the kid down on their knees and say "PRAY TO YOUR GOD!"

Isn't religion a part of humanity for, I don't know...a few 100k years? It seems that knowledge of religion in your mind is some kind of cancer that some how takes control of the person. Knowledge is just knowledge, religion is a form of knowledge, it is a form of morality too, and has a lot of wisdom.

You can study religion or Kant, both would be something you would need to decide that you agree with or not.

I'm around all kinds of people who happen to pray and I don't see it seeping into my flesh like some kind of virus. I can take the lessons of morality from religion, Plato, Kant etc and decide for myself. Are you afraid that a child of yours just might, dare I say it, get religious?

If a person sees morality in the words of Plato does that mean that they will desire slave boys too?

You walk into a school and see on the wall

Categorical and Hypothetical Imperatives: More precisely, it commands us to exercise our wills in a particular way, not to perform some action or other.

Or you see

Thou shall not kill....

Please explain to me the difference other than a elementary student might have a harder time understanding the first one?

ketsuko
reply to post by benrl

 

It may be the parents' job to do it, but when does the parent get to choose what school the child gets to go to as part of their job?

Oh, no, they don't get to do that unless they have a lot of extra money on top of their taxes, and God help them if they think part of the schooling should include topics other than the typical atheist agenda. See, in America, you send your child to the school in the district you live in, and no matter what, it can't include any topics that are other than atheist and politically correct.

So, if you should want to try to find a school that teaches religion, you are SOL unless you happen to be relatively wealthy.

Now, explain to me how that is fair to anyone other than atheists?

Are you completely missing the point, or just trolling?

srsly.

reply to post by Xtrozero


So I guess you are saying that you do think any set of ideals is the same thing as any old religion or are you saying it isn't?

I am honestly trying to figure out your answer but you havn,t been clear instead you asked me what I thought which see my previous post. I said no they aren't btw. Anyway then you seem to trying to justify religion in public school but as we know that is against the law probably because of the down sides of it.


Anyway can you just clarify here? Do you think that any old religion is the same thing as a set of ideals?

Let me ask you this as well.

Would I be correct in thinking you would be fine if colleges were teaching more conservative ideals?

How about this instead of posters in school saying Jesus is lord what if they said god is great they could also be in another language as well giving the kids some bilingual education and in parenthesis it could say Allah Akbar would you be good with that?

If you answer those questions honestly I will understand your position much better.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


I've not once said "state atheism" is the only other option. The state should have nothing to do with religion due to the fact that there are so many different belief systems.

Allowing the state to sanction one religion over another is discrimination and thus religion should be a private thing for each individual.

You are very good at giving examples of the state atheism to prove your argument but you and I know that there has been more conflicts in the world due to religion. Why don't you look for these examples. You state I'm being "dishonest" by my opinion and yet I merely given an opinion.

Are you then suggesting that society will only be a functioning society with religion at its core and anything else is doomed to fail?

I think you just play Devils Advocate, from what I have read from your own previous threads leads me to believe you are the type of guy to argue black was white just for the sake of it.

FriedBabelBroccoli

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

I don't think anyone has claimed they want state atheism as the core of our government, that is just as bad if not worse as having a theocrocy.

The governemnt should be neutral on the subject of religion or God, they should not be forcing an opinion or belief on its people. Secularism is the way to go because it allows freedom of religion. Look at history to see what theocrocies have done to its people. Rome ordered the genocide of thousands of pagans for not converting to their newly established state religion of Christianity, it would be no different with state atheism I believe.

edit on 1/31/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

The young turks were not state atheists.
They began with the practice of exactly what you are describing.
Things then progressed very quickly after it proved to not work so well.

But w/e just pretend your utopian fantasy of a secular society where all people get along is going to become a reality once all the hate filled genocidal religious people start keeping their religion private.

-FBB

So from reading this comment, what your actually saying is a secular society would not work as if religion was kept private, it would cause people to commit genocide. Surely then this example you tried to give against my opinion actually ended up proving as antidotal evidence for my opinion in the first place?

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


This will be my last response to you on this thread as I believe you are just playing Devils Advocate. You have already proven with your own evidence you supplied on this thread my argument even though you did so by mistake.

Here’s some EVIDENCE you requested to prove that Religion has caused massive conflict in the World and we will start with Tony Blair who I suppose in your view is wrong but I'm probably going to pay a bit more attention to a previous statesman than what you have to say.

Extremist religion is at root of 21st-century wars, says Tony Blair
www.theguardian.com...

Below are SOME of the wars between religions since 1095;

THIRTY YEAR WAR
Between – Protestants and Catholics between 1618 & 1648, Location the Roman Empire – Number of Dead highest estimate 11,500,000

FRENCH WARS OF RELIGION
Between – Protestants and Catholics between 1562 & 1598, Location France
Number of Dead, highest estimate 4,000,000

NIGERIAN WAR
Between Islam and Christianity between 1967 & 1970, Location Nigeria
Number of Dead, highest estimate 3,000,000

SECOND SUDANESE CIVIL WAR
Between Islam and Christianity between 1983 & 2005, Location Sudan
Number of Dead, highest estimate 2,000,000

CRUSADES
Between Islam & Christianity between 1095 & 1291, Location, Holy Land & Europe
Number of Dead, highest estimate 3,000,000

LEBANESE CIVIL WAR
Between Sunni, Shiite and Christian, between 1975 and 1990, Location Lebanon
Number of Dead, highest estimate 250,000

These are just a few examples with the total number of deaths from just these examples totalling 23,750,000 deaths caused by religions.

We could also use your TURKS evidence, but that would prove that religion reared its ugly head here as well and this another example of religious conflict.

Very interesting to see how many of these conflicts involved Christianity, such a peaceful loving religion and the same DOGMA being used at the School in the OP.

Finally, as you took umbrage with me during this thread and decided to use comments I have made on previous threads to use in your arguments against me, I took the same privilege and noted that you started a thread against woman in your work place always blaming you for everything and how woman never take the blame. Whilst I found this sexist as you tarnished all woman with the same brush, it does go some way to prove that you are argumentative for the sake of it. Not everyone around you can be wrong, perhaps one has to take a closer look at ones self.

aoxomoxoa
reply to post by fractal2

 

Free speech has nothing to do with it.

And "philosophy" is not appropriate subject matter for kids. They need to be taught logic (mathematics and science) first in order to process the information.

and no, jesus is not science

Logic is a branch of philosophy. And sure, teach that first. But again, how the taxpayers want to waste their money needs to be up to them, and they should be allowed to use their education dollars how they wish so long as its not causing harm.

Free speech may not have everything to do with it, but its certainly most of the issue. People can express them self however they wish. If they want to use a government to express their thoughts, then fine. They should have the freedom of speech to do that when done using fair and square methods.

Not helping people is a lot different than hurting people. Wasting money doesn't help anyone but it also doesn't hurt anyone directly, though indirectly through lost opportunity cost, in the same way a hungry person is "hurting their self" by eating sugar when they could be eating complex carbs. You simply tell them they should be spending their money on complex carbs instead of sugar and hope they have common sense.

Alrighty then. First I will say this, NO this country was not founded on "religious freedom". This country was founded by Christians who were escaping the hold of the Roman Catholic Church. They wanted to worship God without the tyranny of the Catholic Church. Freedom of religion was a concept that came about much later in the constitution.
That aside Let's talk indoctrination for a minute. It appears that the vast majority on this thread disagree with this school district. This is aimed at you all. You think it is indoctrination by Christians to have Christian references in the public schools ? What about all of the many many public schools that teach that evolution is FACT (which it has never been proven anymore than creationism has) ? What about the many schools teaching homosexuality is a normal perfectly acceptable lifestyle ? Yes, that is indoctrination. You whine about the separation of church and state yet those other schools break it everyday. Evolution and homosexuality are two "religious" topics. Think for a moment that homosexuality was discussed in the Bible long before our public schools were thought of. Creationism was in the Bible long before our public schools were thought of. They are religious topics and should be left out of schools as well.
What about the mounting evidence in the scientific community about the existence of God ? about the existence of the soul ? about creationism ?
The message I'm getting here is you can indoctrinate children with anything at all as long as it does not come from the Bible.
I am proud of the school for taking a stand. When I was in school God was still allowed in schools and guess what ? The crime rate was much much lower. The divorce rate was much much lower. The number of perverted homosexuals was very small. Remove God from schools and everything goes awry like little kids whose parents are not at home.
It's odd, criminals in prison are encouraged to read the Bible yet if they were encouraged to read it as a child they probably will not end up in prison to begin with.
I will add this. My son's (public)elementary school still prays, does coloring pages of Jesus and the Bible, discuss God in the classroom, and guess what ? His school is in the top 5 elementary schools in the state. The parents are mostly all Christians and active in local churches. The school never mentions evolution or homosexuality or transgenderism or bisexuality or sex period. Our town is very much a Christian town with a Christian University and guess what ? We have probably the lowest crime rate in the entire state. Our county is a dry county, no liquor is sold within county lines. Beer is sold in a few gas stations but not in any restaurant. We have no bars, no clubs, no strip joints, no "adult" stores. Just one county over they have all of those things and the crime is so bad that they have added 4 more handgun permit classes in the last year because of the flood of frightened people wanting permits.

reply to post by Christian Voice


I started reading your post and then i saw the word "Homosexuality" and again all ATS members are more than aware of your views on this and that you use your beliefs as a reason to bash the LGBT community AGAIN. We don't need to hear that you think homosexuality is not normal as it has no relevance to this thread or the original OP.

What the OP is in fact stating that is abhorrent, was the fact that a CHRISTIAN teacher ridiculed a Buddhist student in class in front of other students and called his religious beliefs stupid. Do you agree that this was acceptable, getting back to the topic in hand.

Xtrozero
You walk into a school and see on the wall

Categorical and Hypothetical Imperatives: More precisely, it commands us to exercise our wills in a particular way, not to perform some action or other.

Or you see

Thou shall not kill....

Please explain to me the difference other than a elementary student might have a harder time understanding the first one?

edit on 1-2-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

The difference is that the second one is from a religious text