The Louisiana Public School Cramming Christianity Down Students’ Throats

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If I ever have children I'm going to teach them to only believe what they can know to be true and not to pledge allegiance to anything they don't truly understand, that includes the American flag and our government.

When my kids were preschoolers/early grades (early 90s), I had a bumper sticker that said:

STAY IN SCHOOL. LEARN THE SYSTEM.
THEN CHANGE THE SYSTEM.

(White letters on crayon blue background).

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


If my question is loaded then so is yours, it's the same exact question except flipped. You're asking for proof of something that cannot be proven. Who's asking loaded questions again?

reply to post by wildtimes


Haha! That's awesome. I'm gonna have to make my own, I know I have some crayons around here somewhere.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

If my question is loaded then so is yours, it's the same exact question except flipped. You're asking for proof of something that cannot be proven. Who's asking loaded questions again?

Are you really trying to say that this is a loaded question?;

FriedBabelBroccoli
Are you going to provide any evidence to back this claim up?

Which was in response to this;

flammadraco
We would all get along much better if religion was something kept in the privacy of your own home and places of worship.

So asking for any evidence or proof is a loaded question?

WTH are you on?

-FBB

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


So how is my question loaded if yours isn't? It's the exact same except flipped! You obviously believe the opposite of what he claimed, so prove that you're right and he's wrong. I think that's fair, don't you?

Opinions are allowed aren't they? Why ask him to prove his OPINION when it cannot be proven in any way? You obviously knew that it couldn't be proven so it was a loaded question.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Asking for proof or evidence of anything does not constitute a "loaded question," it is applying the scientific method.

You are now complaining that people are asking for evidence, calling it a loaded question, when you yourself stated previously in this thread in regards to you ever having children;

If I ever have children I'm going to teach them to only believe what they can know to be true and not to pledge allegiance to anything they don't truly understand, that includes the American flag and our government.

How can you know something to be true without evidence?

I take you would rather I have skipped asking the poster for evidence and kept my lips sealed?

-FBB

PS
I would love to see you try to use this argument in an academic setting.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


The only reason I called it a loaded question was because you believe it was. If you think mine was loaded then by default so was yours. It's really simple, maybe your pride is keeping you from seeing it?

ANYWAYS, I'm going to end this discussion because it's off-topic and you obviously aren't going to admit to anything. The fact is if you call my question loaded then so is yours because they're the exact same, end of discussion. Now can we please get back on topic?

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

The only reason I called it a loaded question was because you believe it was. If you think mine was loaded then by default so was yours. It's really simple, maybe your pride is keeping you from seeing it?

Wow, if this isn't the nuttiest damn thing I have read in a while.

Your "question" had nothing to do with asking me for evidence of a statement I had made. You literally made up your own statement, which you claim I made, and asked me for proof of it.

Wow . . . just wow . . .

-FBB

onequestion
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

You dont know what to teach your kids?

Id say start with algebra and reading.

Strange. I just did math homework with my fifth grader (algebra) and he is now reading Shakleton's Stowaway in his room. These are his school assignments (only a part - he also studied the circulatory system, geography and is writing a book report on a different book! - this is every night mind you. Are you saying classroom learning is not as effective as having me, who is not a teacher, teach him the same subjects? Kids today are much more advanced in learning at their age than I was, at least for my public schooled kids. Was yours a blanket statement that schools are bad?

Also for those who make the comment "take them out and teach them yourselves" - does this mean I should quit my job and get government assistance so I can do so? How else do I do it?

CJ

Personally, I think government funded education is somewhat of an oxymoron. Without regard to that, however, I am curious about the charter school aspect and how that applies to what is being taught. Also how the aspect of choosing what school you attend comes into play.

The New Orleans Public Schools system is currently engaged in reforms aimed at decentralizing power away from the pre-Katrina school board central bureaucracy to individual school principals and charter school boards, monitoring charter school performance by granting renewable, five-year operating contracts permitting the closure of those not succeeding, and vesting choice in parents of public school students, allowing them to enroll their children in almost any school in the district.

Source (emphasis mine)

Sad about the person who ridiculed Buddhism/singled out an individual. Calling something stupid is not exactly showing grace and truth. (provided this is an accurate account of what happened)

ColoradoJens

onequestion
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

You dont know what to teach your kids?

Id say start with algebra and reading.

Strange. I just did math homework with my fifth grader (algebra) and he is now reading Shakleton's Stowaway in his room. These are his school assignments (only a part - he also studied the circulatory system, geography and is writing a book report on a different book! - this is every night mind you. Are you saying classroom learning is not as effective as having me, who is not a teacher, teach him the same subjects? Kids today are much more advanced in learning at their age than I was, at least for my public schooled kids. Was yours a blanket statement that schools are bad?

Also for those who make the comment "take them out and teach them yourselves" - does this mean I should quit my job and get government assistance so I can do so? How else do I do it?

CJ

edit on 29-1-2014 by ColoradoJens because: (no reason given)

It sounds like you are engaging in a wonderful act of actual parenting by assisting with your child's education. Bravo, applause! It appeared as though Onequestion may have been making a sarcastic statement about parents still technically having the option of homeschooling their children so as to teach them what they think should be taught. Maybe it was a statement about how most parent expect the schools to parent the children for them.

Unfortunately it is unrealistic to expect a parent to quit their job and teach their children as socioeconomic status has a very strong effect on academic performance and the future economic achievement of the child.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't . . . or are you?

Either way, you are doing your child a great service. Parental involvement has an extremely strong correlation with increased academic performance and attainment.

Parent involvement and student academic performance: A multiple mediational analysis
David R. Topor, Susan P. Keane, [...], and Susan D. Calkins (2010)
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Abstract

Parent involvement in a child's education is consistently found to be positively associated with a child's academic performance. However, there has been little investigation of the mechanisms that explain this association. The present study examines two potential mechanisms of this association: the child's perception of cognitive competence and the quality of the student-teacher relationship. This study used a sample of 158 seven-year old participants, their mothers, and their teachers.

Parental Involvement Strongly Impacts Student Achievement
Date:May 28, 2008
Source:University of New Hampshire
www.sciencedaily.com...

Summary:
New research shows that students do much better in school when their parents are actively involved in their education. Parents seemed particularly interested in the academic achievements of their daughters. The researchers found parents spent more time talking to their daughters about their school work during dinnertime discussions.

-FBB

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

Either way, you are doing your child a great service. Parental involvement has an extremely strong correlation with increased academic performance and attainment.

No kidding....

BLAH

Text I guess since it's your certain faith that's doing it that means it's ok? Not surprising really. No surprise that you didn't bother reading any of the links posted either because otherwise you'd know the specifics. What's YOUR agenda here exactly? To dismiss this because it's Christianity that's the culprit? Seems that way to me.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No, it is not ok to me that any child, or any adult for that matter, should have to suffer ridicule or shame for what they believe unless that brings distress or physical harm to others. But we don't live in a perfect world and we have laws that should govern most of these inequalities and one of those laws should be to not try a case as a kangaroo court. That is what this thread portrays.

There was no mention that this was a pending lawsuit brought forth by the ACLU in the original draft of this thread. It was written as inferring that the written draft had actually happened without both sides of the accusations known. That is what is wrong and that is a kangaroo court procedure. There was not one mention by the OP that this was an accusation brought on by Scott and Sharon Lane without any defense of the Sabine Parish School Board being published.

What did this do to the ATS readers? It inflamed many of them into Christian Bashing which is just as ignorant as this accused Negreet High School is accused of doing. This kangaroo court mentality is just as wicked as those which they accuse. If this accusation is true in that these officials of the Sabine Parish schools are guilty of the accusations against them then they should be not only punished but should also be replaced.

I should not have to read links to try to understand the OP presentations. That is the job of the OP. Al;so I did not mention my belief in the matter of faith. That is your kangaroo mentality that drives you to assume that I am a Christian. I inferred nothing. What I state are facts which this OP did not even attempt to do. My agenda is to be fair in presenting information and not to inflame the hatreds of people. The ACLU has many problems in presenting their law suits and this is one reason that I reserve my conclusion of this matter. You would be more fair if you also reserved judgment till all facts are known but then I can see where that will never be the case.

FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by flammadraco

 

Okay, I can agree with that, now how about some evidence for the first half of the question?

flammadraco
We would all get along much better if religion was something kept in the privacy of your own home and places of worship.

Are you going to provide some evidence that restricting the expression of religious belief actually results in what you are claiming it does?

-FBB

Religion is used to justify things that are affronts to human rights, or simply as another factor on which we divide ourselves.

Religions teach negative things directly. You know that famous Bible verse where it says that homosexuality is an abomination. Some Christians take that literally and use that to discriminate against gay people. If you look across history, there are way more bad things than good things that come of religion."

Holding faith is a transcendent, personal experience that should not compel anyone to oppress others. When large religious institutions promote oppressive ideals, it is the fault of power-hungry, hateful individuals, not the fundamentals that are most central to the religion.

The Dalai Lama once asserted that morality can exist completely independently of religion, and that there are many secular people who are virtuous human beings, but that religion is an effective medium for promoting universally-positive, humanistic beliefs for those who are particularly receptive to faith.

FriedBabelBroccoli

flammadraco
We would all get along much better if religion was something kept in the privacy of your own home and places of worship.

Are you going to provide any evidence to back this claim up?

I am curious if you or OP would have any qualms if the school were teaching the hard line atheist line of no religion ever, no God, gods or after-life? That is opposed to not broaching the subjects at all.

-FBB

EDIT
It was NORMAN DODD, I don't know how I turned Frank into Hank . . .
/EDIT

edit on 29-1-2014 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101

That's what "Religious Education" is for, to teach students the various religions and believe systems around the world. Does not mean we should have children being ridiculed by a "Radical Christian Fanatic Teacher" for having a different belief system.

Funny how you and other "Radicals" only picked up on one paragraph on my post whilst ignoring the other comments made. Was that because it was the only comment you thought you could handle and answer for?

In my mind, "Radical Christianity" is just as dangerous to the World as "Radical Islam"

TKDRL
reply to post by IraColmillo

 

Do you really need help with that one?

respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Teaching a religion, any religion in a government funded school does both of those things. It promotes one religion, while belittling all the others.

You know damn well, every single person that is backing what this school did, would be up in arms if they were pushing any other religion, instead of their own. That right there should be enough for people to realize that it is wrong, but sadly, it doesn't seem to phase some people.

I'm not saying anything about whether or not any religion should be taught in public schools. I'm asking the people who say the first amendment forbids it to deny ignorance and actually read the amendment. Your quote:

respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

is intentionally flawed.

You know very well that (now that I've pasted it for you) the context has nothing to do with schools. It has to do with congress being forbidden to make a law regarding the Establishment of religion.

It clearly states: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

You're working really hard to maintain ignorance here, attempting to act like this has anything to do with:
#1. Prohibiting Religion in public places.
#2. Education
#3. Non-Federal government (ie NOT Congress)

In fact, it clearly says Congress cannot make laws prohibiting the FREE exercise of religion. Kind of the opposite of what you're claiming, no?

Seede

Text I guess since it's your certain faith that's doing it that means it's ok? Not surprising really. No surprise that you didn't bother reading any of the links posted either because otherwise you'd know the specifics. What's YOUR agenda here exactly? To dismiss this because it's Christianity that's the culprit? Seems that way to me.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

What did this do to the ATS readers? It inflamed many of them into Christian Bashing which is just as ignorant as this accused Negreet High School is accused of doing. This kangaroo court mentality is just as wicked as those which they accuse. If this accusation is true in that these officials of the Sabine Parish schools are guilty of the accusations against them then they should be not only punished but should also be replaced.

"Pot, Kettle, Black" springs to mind.

Your previous post accused 3NLIG and others who don't want Christian Dogma shoved down their throats of supporting the 911 attacks. I would not be surprised if you were a supporter of the Westboro Church with your "Radical" assumptions.

Just like other Christians on this thread you have failed to answer one simple question; "Lets pretend for argument sake that the school in the OP was a School teaching Islam to your children paid for by your tax dollars, would you still have the same opinion?

TKDRL
reply to post by IraColmillo

 

You know damn well, every single person that is backing what this school did, would be up in arms if they were pushing any other religion, instead of their own. That right there should be enough for people to realize that it is wrong, but sadly, it doesn't seem to phase some people.

Put it this way. If I was teaching your kid, if you have one, niece, nephew, brother, sister, whatever if you don't. I started teaching that kin of yours the way of the Vedas, and telling your kin that what your family believe is wrong, and the Vedas was the only true way, and even went as far to start pushing Vedas material in tests, you would be perfectly fine with that right? Yeah, I highly doubt it.

edit on Wed, 29 Jan 2014 18:52:05 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

By the way, public schools do teach religion every day, and most are anti-christian. My problem is not with what religion is being taught (Christian or otherwise.) The federal government should not have any say in the education of children, period. Constitutionally, education belongs to family, town, city, and state.

So what do you guys think about the Lane family adopting a Buddhist kid and sending him to a Christian school? Are they new to the area or lifelong residents? Seems everyone is so eager to huff and puff about the school that you're overlooking the actions of the parents.

Considering the fact that they've found him another school more to his liking, don't you think that's something they should have planned on from the get go?

reply to post by IraColmillo


Oh really.... What anti-christian religions are public schools teaching every day now?

Don't know what school you went to, but the only religion taught in all the ones I went to in the tristate, were in historical context, not preaching context. We learned about all the major religions, which is relevant for historical perspective. Teaching about the salem witch trials could not be done without going into why those ignorant fools were burning people alive and torturing them for example.