Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

When world-class scientists are working on intelligence-rated projects seeking ways to determine, influence, and manipulate "the behaviors of individuals and groups," how do you suppose they go about that? From the TIGER study:

in developing the methodology, the committee considered the end user (analysts and predictors of the behaviors of individuals and groups), the data available to them, the desired output, and the unique aspects (if relevant) of neuroscience research. Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.

linkwww.nap.edu...

Do they get some volunteers and set them down at tables and try various ways to get folk to believe the red pill is blue, and the blue pill is red?


No, it requires a complex project that requires an unwitting community. Thusly, and noting all we have about MJ-12, SERPO, Kit's interests in memes and such, as well as the intelligence connections of it's main figures, and the fact that there is indeed a ready-made ufological community…well, I think it's a thesis that can't be easily dismissed.



We might also look again at this sentence from the TIGER study quoted above:

Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.

Dr. Green is a current member of the National Research Council’s Standing Committee on Technology Insight—Gauge, Evaluate, and Review (TIGER).

Eidolon23
Promising input that departed from the master narratives being fed to the userbase was quashed or overrun with calculated irrelevance and dead ends.

Maybe me tinfoil's a bit too tight, but that quote couldn't possibly be related to anything like this could it?

Some of these concepts that are being tossed around by the failed
sorcerer spies are over 5,000 years old; hailing back to the indus
valley civilization.

I don't get the fascination.

Nah. Hrmmmm. I'm hrmmm'ing a lot lately. Btw, I checked my notes, it was E23 that dug up that DARPA research. She be super bad. She be my hero.

The GUT

Were those questions sidestepped on the permanent and public AMA thread or is it just me?

edit on 30-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

A unique experience, perhaps life lesson, or finally best suited: realizations gleamed from those AMA threads were two fold.

1st being that there appeared to be a clear attempt of obfuscating questions or completely sidestepping them. So I keep coming back to these thoughts: Why were they here? Que bono? Out of the kindness of their heart? Because they think Springer is a cool guy and they want to support the conspiracy movement?

Right, because they were acting as citizens and were trying to sell books....perhaps.

How much research was prepared before they came to AMA? I'm sure Aquino was far more prepared than Alexander, or at least appeared as such. To take it a step further, Aquino's thread ( at least to me ) was akin to the notorious "hidden hand" thread, in the sense that Aquino was pretty quick to respond, expressed himself well (when he wanted to) and highly articulate. All that being said, although he acknowledged my question he never answered it. Which I figure is similar to your question to Alexander, meaning there's no way on gods green earth they would incriminate themselves or the government.

Sites like this exist because they've learned to assimilate. You can't shut everyone down so its better to "acquire" it. If a business entity doesn't want to play ball you can always invoke "national security" concerns right? but what most curious is the seemingly low interference in this thread. Almost gives me the creeps, you almost want them here so at least you can try to gauge there demeanor hahahaha

*gulp*

Friend may be too strong a word. Acquaintances with no reason not to be friendly, and things in common. Perhaps. Vallee has a brain and I respect him enough not to expect him to trust anyone in that world...

I always find the "abductions aren't real" angle interesting, simply for evaluating whomever says it. Of course I have a monumental bias in favor of taking that focus seriously due to my own life and those I've met, much like people who've studied UFOlogy and say, all the bluebook cases possible, have a bias in favor of believing there's something to some of those.

I ask myself: are they ignorant (most the public, and I say this with the best of intent -- they simply have no reason to know whether people are just either honestly mistaken, or unwitting 'subjects', or lunatics); are they in denial from personal fears; are they simply lying about it; or are they so privately convinced that there's so many clandestine projects F--ing with people's heads that it makes them completely override all evidence of other intelligent life (including all hard UFO cases, since while those aren't abduction, they *are* intelligent life we cannot predict, or know the actions of) as "unnecessary for explanation" because there's so darn much explanation here locally?

I am forced to dismiss ignorance (too much info) and both denial and fear (only because enough info eventually would override that and have to be dealt with); leaving either a) they are lying about it, or b) they know of so much mindF- going on they find it hard to believe there's enough people left over for aliens to have anyone to muck about with.

JBA was part of Laibow's TREAT group for awhile as I fuzzily recall and she founded that allegedly after discovering abductions appeared to be real and not just psychological issues.

Oh look it's Bob. I tripped and fell face first into this ancient ref when searching for something else. paul.rutgers.edu...

reply to post by RedCairo


RedCairo; you're a pretty awesome person. I love reading your posts and I was checking out your site the other day too. Lots to read over there.

Rosinitiate
1st being that there appeared to be a clear attempt of obfuscating questions or completely sidestepping them. So I keep coming back to these thoughts: Why were they here? Que bono? Out of the kindness of their heart? Because they think Springer is a cool guy and they want to support the conspiracy movement?

Right, because they were acting as citizens and were trying to sell books....perhaps.

Yes those were my thoughts also. It did seem somewhat pointless. We probably in some of these cases could have gathered previous official or commercial responses (suave brush offs, if not completely ignoring things) on a variety of topics and posted them as an FAQ and saved them the trouble of having to not answer, or having to respond yet still manage to not answer.

I suppose it's possible that whatever answer they would be willing and/or allowed to give the public, would be pointless since anybody with a brain probably wouldn't believe them anyway. Perhaps this puts them in a lose-lose situation.

What it really does is take me back to what I've said and implied a few times now. It is the nearly childlike wide eyed OMG Official Ooh Aaah what did they say what do they know what tidbits can they give us following that gives these organizations and the minions that so fluently front them via public interaction their power.

If nobody much cared what they thought or said, if people considered anything they said to be likely in most cases to be more layers of harm than help, or merely another hook to suck you in for distortion later, their celebrity-popularity would reduce. Hence their ability to actually BE that "control system lever" and interject what they choose into the public loop would be far more limited.

It is like the quip about people getting the government they deserve. Perhaps we get the control systems we deserve.

mysterious duplicate post removed.

PS:
You guys have to quit being so nice to me. Really.
I'm embarrassed, and besides, now my enemies want to vomit.

Wait, the last part might be ok.

reply to post by The GUT


That pic of the alien with the pills -- those totally need to be shaped like probes. ROFL

RedCairo

If nobody much cared what they thought or said, if people considered anything they said to be likely in most cases to be more layers of harm than help, or merely another hook to suck you in for distortion later, their celebrity-popularity would reduce. Hence their ability to actually BE that "control system lever" and interject what they choose into the public loop would be far more limited.

You make a good point and when I go back just a couple years to my thinking at the time I was like: "Man those damn aliens are everywhere!" (Side note: I did see me a genuine experience [My UFO Experience ]).

Now, I find myself perplexed at just how sophisticated and all encompassing our military industrial complex is. It gives new meaning to Eisenhower's comments looking back in hindsight. It's because of this understanding and my decades long research that makes me feel a little bit counter to your final thought:

It is like the quip about people getting the government they deserve. Perhaps we get the control systems we deserve.

If John Q Public knew a fraction of what some of us understand things would be different. There's a certain level of disillusionment that can't be rubbed off and they know that. There goal is to stop that from happening and they have all the toys and endless budgets to accomplish it. Discredit would be truth informants and dazzle us with highly technical light shows. I chose truth informants because its time to shed the chains of conspiracy theorists, especially now when there's no mistaken a genuine conspiracy even if we can't pin-point all the players.

Would you let your narcissistic, kleptomaniac compulsive liar house sit for you? Well that's who has the keys to our kingdom.

RedCairo
What it really does is take me back to what I've said and implied a few times now. It is the nearly childlike wide eyed OMG Official Ooh Aaah what did they say what do they know what tidbits can they give us following that gives these organizations and the minions that so fluently front them via public interaction their power.

If nobody much cared what they thought or said, if people considered anything they said to be likely in most cases to be more layers of harm than help, or merely another hook to suck you in for distortion later, their celebrity-popularity would reduce. Hence their ability to actually BE that "control system lever" and interject what they choose into the public loop would be far more limited.

In my own small way, that is exactly what I'm trying to encourage. They already have a stage--and an eager audience that believes/hopes they have answers about UFOs--so the ONLY way I can see to do that is to streak onto the platform and try to pull their underwear down. Ewwwww.

The GUT
They already have a stage--and an eager audience that believes/hopes they have answers about UFOs--so the ONLY way I can see to do that is to streak onto the platform and try to pull their underwear down. Ewwwww.

That's just wrong! I just had an image of Aquino's ass with a tattoo:



Now I'm never getting back to sleep.

I've been meaning to get back to this one from one of the first pages. It kept both of my measly brain cells busy counting each other for a day or two. I'm still not sure I get it, but I want to, I think there are some references with assumption of knowing the context and I just don't have the context.

Kantzveldt
however he is caught up in a certain aspect of the greater web and will be unable to extricate himself, largely down to Geographic disadvantage and associate spiritual phenomena.

As he is on the same planet we are, does this relate to literally where he lives (where is that)? and if so why? I get the feeling maybe this is some humorously silly question but I'm lost to context here. Short of local sidereal time parameters I've never heard anybody refer to someone having a geographic disadvantage when it came to anything... like this.

What spiritual phenomena would prevent him... extricating himself, as you put it? Do you mean that involvement with certain... archetypal structures, makes moving outside those unlikely?

The key to understanding the greater system is, somewhat amusingly, the location of Nibiru, which is not as popularized by Sitchin an eccentric wandering Celestial body with deep frozen Annunaki upon it waiting to hop onto Earth at nearest crossing dpoint like so many desperate penguins, but rather simply indicates a point of centre.

I swear I slept through The 12th Planet (if that was the title) yet still liked it, back in... 1993-4. I remember approximately none of it, except for his interesting re-translation of the biblical ref to Babel being built to go up and see the gods. And one weird idea I had in the middle that perhaps mankind had once built such a thing using a sort of 'dimensional geometry' and that it wasn't nearly as nuts&bolts as it sounded. I could be wrong but I think I was reading that book when the Northridge earthquake nearly killed me via bookshelves, which would have been an irony on several levels. I'm not sure I ever finished it actually. Anyway: a point of centre. So, centre like... like torus-axis for planet earth you mean? Or something else?

This could be in Celestial terms the highest point in the sky of the Suns trajectory at the intersection of the East-West and North-South axis,

Reminds me of LST findings in psi research; it was when the center of the galaxy was basically overhead that accurate data was higher. But that moves with the person. Well, longitudinally. They were doing latitude studies at CSL I heard but those were for a private client so nothing published.

or a correspondent world belly button as it were, as applied in Mesopotamia this was variously seen as a cultic shrine of centre at Eridu and then later Babylon, their world view was built upon this concept of pattern extending outward from centre, in terms of both terrestrial and Celestial interests.

I don't know why but this sparked a memory of something I was reading recently about the Sanderson / Becker-Hagens grid concepts. Since I'm with the whole 8 people crazy enough to believe the sphere may be growing, I think the pattern expansion concept is very interesting. Do you have any reading links on this?

empowering the actual principle in the sense of raising archetypes within the unconscious mind

Do you think that this is representing an archetype of 'catalyst' in a way?

To bring it back to topic, do you suppose archetypes such as that could be a primal element in control systems, in a way?

Rosinitiate
It gives new meaning to Eisenhower's comments looking back in hindsight.

Yes -- very true.

If John Q Public knew a fraction of what some of us understand things would be different.

Yeah I guess that's true. Fortunately for some interests, JQP is less and less able -- nutritionally, intellectually, etc. -- to even comprehend half the topic never mind understand the situation.

Of course the one unchanging rule liars use to their advantage is that the more torqued everything is, the more it's likely to succeed, because the people trying to explain even a fraction of the problem to others, sound like the crazy ones themselves. It's just too much.

Would you let your narcissistic, kleptomaniac compulsive liar house sit for you?

Unnecessary. I already have a teenager. (...) Kidding. Mostly.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by BlueMule

 

The trickster has probably existed for 2 million years (archaic humanity) if not since the beginning of the universe.

It must have shot itself In the foot once already.

Can you list a time it has done that and explain what positive thing resulted?

KPB

Well, the Monkey King shot himself in the foot, through his arrogance.

He was very disruptive. The forces of Heaven couldn't tame him or restrain him. He was too powerful. He became arrogant. So Heaven turned to the Buddha.

Through his own arrogance, he was tricked and imprisoned by the Buddha for centuries. He was eventually released (with restraints) as a bodyguard for a pilgrim. After the pilgrimage was successfully completed, Monkey King was granted Buddha-hood for his vital service.

Only the awakened consciousness of the Buddha could bring the trickster inside. The forces of Heaven and Earth couldn't do it.

I just want to recommend a couple of books real quick that are imo required reading for a ufologist. I've read them all and guarantee they are worth reading.

Trickster Makes This World: Mischief, Myth, and Art

Four Archetypes: Mother / Rebirth / Spirit / Trickster

The Trickster and the Paranormal

Mutants and Mystics: Science Fiction, Superhero Comics, and the Paranormal

reply to post by BlueMule


Hm.

That story may have been more wishful thinking than a good example..
but it's intersting that the story exists wtihin the archetypcial mind.

The monkey king is indeed a famous trickster; and a more anthropomorphic
one than most.

Normally I'd say that the trickster morping into another form means little;
that the new form would also be a trickster form.

but in this case, the 'buddha' is definitely not a trickster; in fact the only
archetypal form which is not.. not even a Tao Immortal is in the same
league.

However it can't be said that the monkey king transformed any other
tricksters, or was documented to 'rescue humans'. he alone was
transformed?

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Because of your response the thought occurred to me that it may be incorrect to equate the field and the trickster as synonymous. Now a lot of folks say that God is the only trickster.. creating something from nothing.

but as we both know there are 'Buddha currents' which don't seem to follow the usual rules.

I think I'll make a post about this.

Trickster in mythologies can many ways. Pro/con, or even life/death in more tribal cultures.

Nordic cultures, Odin was the wise trickster, while Loki was the more deceitful and a kid with a magnifying glass trickster, and the vikings were the Ants at the time.

In Japanese, Chinese, Korea, there is the Nine-Tailed Fox, and it was said to be very deceptive, almost to the point of destroying Emperors who were deemed unfit.

Greece main head deity was also a trickster, as he would sleep with many different women by taking their husbands appearance. Such mythology also start a more fictional one, like Clash of the Titans(The more recent one anyways, don't know about the old skool one). Ether that, or women were terrible liars in those days, or men were that dumb.

The trickster can go both ways, good or bad, usually bad for various reasons. Especially in tribal cultures, where this could be a valuable aspect of that cultures development, psychologically and socially that is.

In mono religions, God is the trickster...Cause you never wanna piss of God! Even though Satan/Lucifer/Sameal are the usual targets or deemed the tricksters.

Am I correct?

The only way to protected by the trickster was ether pure of heart, spirit or just humble. Usually, it would use ones greed.

reply to post by Specimen


You are!

The thing that fascinates me about the Buddha archetype is that is a current that promotes a path to freedom from the most painful fallout of being in the grip of the trickster.

those other mythologies have wise trickster archetypes...but at least personally I find the early but not the later Buddhist archetype to be particularly pure in a positive aspect.

thanks for the great response.

Question..

At 1:40 is that multiple tailed fox...Fairies, or Buddha.



Now Whos the Joker? It forever wild. Lol. I couldn't resist. It was futile.