Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

a reply to: Tulpa

Two things. Halt felt his meeting with Alexander was a really a de briefing and debunk.

In terms of 'the nine', you'll find that Roddenberry - certainly pre Motion Picture and TNG was drawn in.

I'll have to be careful or I'll become the David Clarke of science fiction in ufology!

a reply to: ctj83

The sci-fi stuff you've been finding is an excellent angle.
I do like a bit of sci-fi myself but I never really liked Star Trek. No special reason for it, just watched and read other stuff.
My Dads shelves are full of Asimov, Clarke, Heinlein, Hoyle, Olafson etc etc.
That's the stuff I read as a child.

Didn't really take to Dune and L.Ron was not to be found anywhere in our house.
The Stargate book i mentioned above should be compulsory reading And I think I should probably do so again soon.
Its a huge concept and a very long playing game.
I'm kind of already biased in this direction when "our intrepid heroes" say they're gonna be revealing more.
I'm going to be looking for clues to connect. Its possible its the next chapter.
Andreja Puharich has some influence maybe?
Anyway I'd have been oblivious to the Star Trek connection if you hadn't brought it in.
Its not just Gene who got drawn in. That "thing" has put down roots almost everywhere!

Wild speculation again on my behalf but you know how these things go....

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Arby, the thing about the holes in the ground is that people always look at it a number of ways. From there being nothing to see at all to it being a significant piece of evidence.

Now i personally would agree that the photographic evidence we have is weak. However we have to remember that the 'encounters', for want of a better word, happened on 3 nights and the photographs were taken sometime in the mid-morning. So the temperature would have changed and the marking may well have been scuffed by weather and wildlife.

According to this site en.tutiempo.net... the Christmas Day temperature was as high as 10°C and fell to 4°C overnight at Woodbridge. On the morning of Boxing Day When Ray Gulays took the photos, the temperature was a crisp but not frozen 2 to 5°C. By the 29th December the temperature did not drop below 7°C.

So all we have is something less than definitive and probably does not strengthen the case for a UFO or other object sitting on the forest floor. It also makes it difficult to explain the Penniston plaster casts


[
They're as big as Halt's head in the photograph above!

So how, where and when did he make these casts?

a reply to: Tulpa

There's also the question of time. If Halt says they were out for four hours, there's a good chance it was getting to be daylight? Maybe someone was posted to stand by the marks until they could be examined properly. I don't know really.

The Halt Tape ends at 4:00am on what is considered to be the morning of 28th December. You probably know it doesn't get light until after 8am in late December here in Blighty (and that's when there's no cloud cover). But even that doesn't really matter because Halt went out to what he thought was the landing site on his night because the pictures were taken on the morning of the 26th.

Robert Hastings has released a new documentary. In an interview with Open Minds, RFI is discussed. Around the 01:12:31 mark, he mentions this new interesting tidbit in relation to the WSA:

This same colonel who again was very high level in NATO's nuclear weapons security apparatus told me in approximately 1994 that after the UFO hovered over that facility and sent down laser-like beams of light … that two bombs were selected from one of the bunkers and flown aboard a C-58 aircraft to Kirtland AFB and the Nuclear Weapons Analysis Laboratory they have there.

He claims to have seen the files relating to the transfer of the weapons. He couldn't tell me why these two particular bombs were selected. Maybe they had visible damage to them from the beam? He didn't know one way or the other. When I asked him what the results were of the analysis of the lab, he said he was not privy to that information.

On the testimony of the two air traffic controllers in the air traffic control tower on the night Halt was in the woods (Ike Barker and Jim Carey, who feature in the documentary):

They tracked a bona fide UFO on the night that Col. Halt was in the woods. It crossed their radar scope, which had a 120 mile diameter. It crossed it in less than two sweeps which would have been approximately 8 seconds. It then hovered outside their window of the air traffic control tower, they could see it hovering some distance away above a water tower on the base.

Ike Barker said it was like a basketball, it was an orange sphere, it had windows around its equator, its centre that seemed to be portholes which a yellowish orange light emanating from the portholes. And after this object hovered for a few seconds it then reversed its course and on the way out of the area, made a sharp angle 90 degree turn.

And Jim Carey talks on camera about ... "That can't be one of ours."

a reply to: mirageman

You're right again, of course, but my point was that they didn't just find them there.
Something pointed them to that spot.
Also, its unlikely that the temperature would drop below freezing in the depths of the forest but around the edges its pretty expected.
I'm sure I've read somewhere along the way that parts of the countryside are described as boggy and there's areas where the ground is described as mud.
I'm cautious there because it may be an American way of describing soil.
Point being that when Halt says frozen solid, knowing the British countryside in wintertime, I've always assumed that he just meant that they could walk easily over areas which may have needed to be avoided at other times of year.
That said, they all say that they had dirty, muddy clothes so the ground wasn't frozen "solid" everywhere was it?
I think the way certain expressions, figures of speech and other bits of linguistic vagueness get analysed too much. Not everything should be taken literally.
Once again. Those involved can't seem to agree on a lot of the important details.

Even if the plaster casts are legitimate its not going to convince me of anything other than that they found some dents.

a reply to: Tulpa

Something pointed them to that spot...

Yes it did. Perhaps there was more than one spot? The UFO(s) did not stay still and supposedly returned to the forest area on subsequent night(s). So if I am being highly speculative then why would it 'land' in just the one spot over those three nights?

Part of the whole mystery about this case is what the hell spooked trained military personnel for at least 3 nights in 1980. Something did.

I think the way certain expressions, figures of speech and other bits of linguistic vagueness get analysed too much. Not everything should be taken literally.

An excellent observation.

I really don't know where this story is headed at the moment. It seems that one or two witnesses are in danger of seeing their stories imploding.But then that's been the narrative for 30 odd years and suddenly someone pulls another rabbit out of a hole in the forest and things take another direction again.

a reply to: mirageman

Would you care to estimate in order of likelihood your favorite theories? For example:

1) Andrew Pike's adjacent plasma testing caused anomalous effects at RFI.

2) The military was testing microwave/plasma tech and anomalous effects occurred at RFI.

3) Same as #2, but it was a purposeful psyop performed on the troops.

4) A pure smoke and mirrors of psyop test on the troops.

5) "Earth lights" / hypothetical natural plasmas were the major factor.

6) Little green men flew across the universe to confuse stupid humans for some unknown reason.

Just curious.

Kev

a reply to: Defragmentor

I've seen commentary else where, from Hastings thatBoeing investigated the minute man "interferences" and did come to a conclusion. Massive Eddie currents were used to destroy the circuitry using square waves. It's a little like an EMP weapon.

"Peter Paget" has a different explaination for what happened at the RFI. Apparently the molecular structure of the radioactive components is changed, rendering some of it to a melted iron slag.

This gives an explaination for the dripping molten metal seen by Halt. This was the processing of the nuclear material. I'll add that I don't believe any of this explaination, for what's it's worth but wanted to share in case it helps others.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'd add another option.

The phenomena was a smoke and lights show to disguise a basic probe:
- less worry of violating airspace (it's alien!)
- no room for weapons - uses "reverse stealth"
- powered by a nuclear reactor
- employs plasma
- meant to inspect nuclear installations
- possible Terehertz scanner
- possible EMP weapon

Created by which power?
- rival US military power (navy)
- secret service
- the British

Crazy theory:
- RFI was a probe employing plasma - last seen at Manzano weapons depot and photographed by Bennwitz
- UK reprocessed failed US nuclear weapons
- Burroughs was exposed to a clandestine "hot cell"

a reply to: ctj83

Changing Plutonium 238 or whatever weapons grade isotope they used then to "Iron" in bulk, quickly would take "star trek technology+" Or "Faerie Magic".

(over 1000 years of stories about "Faeries" doing quick mass transmutations).

Even if such a thing was possible...can you explain where the "dripping metal" was seen compared to the presumed nuclear weapon bunkers? I'm sketchy on those details.

Kev

a reply to: ctj83

Pretty exotic theory.

But testing a nuke disarming technology operationally against a "safe target" (an allied country) is not a bad speculation...

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'd probably have to consider this long and hard now Kev. Even then my point of view is probably ??????

But I'll give you a thumbnail of the various points of view on this I've swayed towards

Oct of 1983 - Mirage'paper' boy on seeing the "News of the World" thought WOW Alienz!

1990 or so - Watching 'Unsolved Mysteries' Mirageyouth thought 'I remember reading about this years ago in the paper. It really must have been something weird and alien going on.

1994 - Mirage 'young' man sees ITVs "Strange But True", and totally fooled by the 'falsely inserted' Mal Scurrah interview believes something was tracked on radar and it had to have been a UFO. Halt, Burroughs and Penniston all appear and seem sincere.

2001 - There is no real 'Space Odyssey'. That was a disappointment.

After then I started poking around the internet and slowly came to the realization that although UFOs might be real that there isn't one iota of proof they are extra-terrestrial in origin. There are plenty of people who will tell you they are in exchange for the contents of your wallet. There are also plenty of people who like to tell you they know there are aliens because they are 'special' and have seen them or 'experienced' them in some way. But they can't prove it to the ignorant ones as you have to 'know' to really know..

So Rendlesham. Hmmm? I suspect some kind of military/weird experiment at the moment. But the jury is still out at the moment and the soap opera element keeps providing extra, but ultimately frustrating, entertainment.

a reply to: mirageman

Its probably best to keep an eye on what's being said publicly in the run up to the new book releases.
I'd like to read them and see how much more of an explanation they may provide.
While everyone's giving us their theories I'd like to repeat what I said before.
I can't say what started it but at some point I think that a separate project was started in which we (as in the general public but specifically UFO type folk) became the subjects of an information gathering experiment.
How do we react to the information we have been given?
What effect does this all have on the public consciousness?
How has it changed our beliefs in relation to mysterious subjects?

Someone is definitely watching us watching them.

a reply to: Tulpa

We are in 100% agreement on your last statement.

Only we don't know exactly who is watching us back.

Of course the major component is our deceiving ourselves due to the inertia of the initial deceptions.

"Everything" has become hysterically conflated by our own irrational tendencies.

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

I love that honest self-assessment.

I wish everyone was easily capable of that.

I've calmed down a lot from my early impressionable era too.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I thought that was pretty normal for most folk.
I've always just wondered what the hell UFOs are.
No real idea or hypothesis has got me completely on-side.
There could be a number of different explanations for a number of associated phenomena.
It seems to be an ever changing landscape and no one can even agree on specific criteria which which to categorise these phenomena.
Its the mystery itself that attracts me personally.
One day we may find out and I'd be the first to admit I'd followed a few dead ends but you know what?
It was fun.
I know nothing about football but I wouldn't swap what I know for someone else's obsession.
I wouldn't knock it either.
We are a fairly unique bunch intellectually speaking.

a reply to: Tulpa

I can't say what started it but at some point I think that a separate project was started in which we (as in the general public but specifically UFO type folk) became the subjects of an information gathering experiment. How do we react to the information we have been given? What effect does this all have on the public consciousness? How has it changed our beliefs in relation to mysterious subjects? Someone is definitely watching us watching them.

Very much so and people on internet radio shows and even some of the witnesses do pay attention to forums like this as well. Why is it that the three letter agencies do not pay anywhere near as much attention to ghost researchers or bigfoot hunters? But UFOs are something completely different.

I've always just wondered what the hell UFOs are. No real idea or hypothesis has got me completely on-side. There could be a number of different explanations for a number of associated phenomena.

Even when I was younger I never believed UFOs were alien spacecraft. One or two of them maybe? But there just seemed too many reports as if Planet Earth was some galactic tourist centre. So I agree there are probably multiple answers with hoaxes and mistaken natural or man made objects making up a large percentage of UFO stories. But I don't rule anything out either.

I've said this before. What if the human race got their hands on a proven alien artefact just once in known history? With no real knowledge of what it is, who it belongs to and why it's here. Would that explain the secrecy surrounding the subject but also the reason why the proof is so elusive?

I know nothing about football............

It's never too late to learn


Finally just to keep the thread rolling (and mainly because I am too lazy to put together any new UFO thread at the moment). Here's a rare ITV news feature on Rendlesham from 1994 featuring Larry Warren, civilian witness Gerry Harris and Lord Hill Norton. You do get to see the field where the alleged 3rd night UFO landed. Gerry Harris provides an interesting perspective as a civilian and Lord Hill Norton suggests that the MoD and DoD are covering something up.

a reply to: mirageman

Please...no football.
Too many books to read. I'm an indoors type.
This thread very much needs to keep going. With new information imminent, not to mention the publicity element, there should be more to discuss.
You never know, someone in this thread might've already put some clues together and found something.
I do fear for any newcomers who are going to get drawn in at this stage!

Here's a novel idea...
In the future, time travel has been perfected and so many people wanted to know what happened at Rendlesham that they all keep going back to those nights.
All those people wore a thin patch in space/time which eventually burst resulting in a light show, some injuries and a misunderstood message.
The message should have said "Woops, sorry about the hole. Someone will be back tomorrow night to patch it up."

Anyway. Off to watch the new doc above after my chores.
Cheers.


Watched it already. Must've seen it first time round! They still only have that one sound effect for all birds!!!

originally posted by: mirageman
According to this site en.tutiempo.net... the Christmas Day temperature was as high as 10°C and fell to 4°C overnight at Woodbridge. On the morning of Boxing Day When Ray Gulays took the photos, the temperature was a crisp but not frozen 2 to 5°C. By the 29th December the temperature did not drop below 7°C.

Yes, thanks for that. There's no way the ground was frozen enough to prevent a heavy craft from making bigger impressions than what's shown in the photos. I think the frozen ground claim is made up to try to preserve the idea there was a landing site when the photographic evidence and audio evidence on Halt's tape doesn't suggest any landing site of any heavy object.

So all we have is something less than definitive and probably does not strengthen the case for a UFO or other object sitting on the forest floor.

Agreed.

It also makes it difficult to explain the Penniston plaster casts

If someone finds Penniston to be a credible source, perhaps. But even the very open-minded Paratopia guys are now very disillusioned with the credibility of Penniston after his answers imploded on the Angela Joiner show, and they're usually willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. With so much coming from Penniston being of an obviously dubious nature, it's hard to attach any special significance to his casts. Also it's not like we don't have other evidence from the photographs and Halts tape. Given Penniston's credibility record, I'd have to go with the photographs and Halts tape as being more credible to the extent there's any conflict between them and Penniston's casts.

originally posted by: mirageman
Gerry Harris provides an interesting perspective as a civilian and Lord Hill Norton suggests that the MoD and DoD are covering something up.

Yes Lord Hill Norton says he has no doubt something landed. He might have been a fine admiral so I can't judge his skills as a commander, but I must say his skills as an investigator are woefully lacking if he makes such a statement based on the dismal evidence for a so-called "landing" that's been made public. What's really ironic is that video focuses on a so-called landing site in the middle of the field and that's nowhere near the supposed landing site that's documented in the forest with trees nearby, so right in the video the evidence is contradictory, but even if one ignores Warren and sticks to the documented "landing site" in the photos, none of that evidence suggests any landing to me. The police apparently looked at the site when they were called, and they didn't see any evidence of a landing, nor did Thurkettle when he looked at the site a while later, and even Halt's tape suggests he didn't see anything significant at the so called "landing site". All of this adds up to Lord Hill Norton's statement he has no doubt something landed as having absolutely no known credible evidence to back that up.

If there's really evidence he's seen that eliminates doubt there was a landing, then he's the one covering it up because he certainly hasn't made it public.