Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I think what he meant has been misconstrued somewhat! lol

When he states "sectioned" he maybe referring to certain "sections" that the FOIA has that means certain information is exempt from FOIA requests or that he has been blocked from making anymore requests on certain topics, but I am not aware of people being blocked at making FOIAs.

Here is an example of some parts that are exempt from public FOIA requests in regards to other FOIA requests and examples;

Section 43 – trade secrets and commercial interests,
Section 41 – information provided in confidence, and
Section 40 – personal information

More than likely, than being dragged away kicking and screaming...

originally posted by: pigsy2400
More than likely, than being dragged away kicking and screaming...

Context sure does help. Cheers.

My own fault, should've just listened before replying.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I think what he meant has been misconstrued somewhat! lol

When he states "sectioned" he maybe referring to certain "sections" that the FOIA has that means certain information is exempt from FOIA requests or that he has been blocked from making anymore requests on certain topics, but I am not aware of people being blocked at making FOIAs.

Here is an example of some parts that are exempt from public FOIA requests in regards to other FOIA requests and examples;

Section 43 – trade secrets and commercial interests,
Section 41 – information provided in confidence, and
Section 40 – personal information

More than likely, than being dragged away kicking and screaming...

I'm just looking at the exemption policy for FOIA disclosures and if such an exemption is enacted then there would have to be a formal response explaining that exemption, even if it was simply to issue a "neither confirm nor deny" (NCND) notice and this can then be subsequently appealed...which leads a further paper trail. All this, therefore, should be easily verifiable...I'd've thought.

For the purposes of the Act, ‘prejudice’ means causing harm in some way. Many of the exemptions listed below apply if disclosing the information you hold would harm the interests covered by the exemption. In the same way, confirming or denying whether you have the information can also cause prejudice. Deciding whether disclosure would cause prejudice is called the prejudice test.

To decide whether disclosure (or confirmation/denial) would cause prejudice:

You must be able to identify a negative consequence of the disclosure (or confirmation/denial), and this negative consequence must be significant (more than trivial);

You must be able to show a link between the disclosure (or confirmation/denial) and the negative consequences, showing how one would cause the other; and

There must be at least a real possibility of the negative consequences happening, even if you can’t say it is more likely than not.

ico.org.uk...

On reflection, I don't suppose it would be a prejudicial exemption, much more likely to be a class based one. Or it could be that the request was person or group specific, in which case they are not allowed to publically share it.

Disclosures under the Act are ‘to the world’. However, you can restrict the release of information to a specific individual or group at your discretion, outside the provisions of the Act.

If you make a restricted disclosure, you should make it very clear to the requester that the information is for them alone; many requesters are satisfied with this.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

That's a fair point. As yet we have no case studies quoted that I am aware of beyond Burroughs case. Of course patient confidentiality does have to be taken into account. The secrecy surrounding SAPs involved too. But should we dismiss this information because of that and suspicion about the author?

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Mediation seems to be more along the lines of what is required, instead it appears as if efforts have and are being taken to ensure that conflict between the participants persists...

Same as it ever was. Halt has said he has no intention of getting together with other witnesses. The spats between the others in the public eye continue to this day. Maybe that's by design?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

That's a fair point. As yet we have no case studies quoted that I am aware of beyond Burroughs case. Of course patient confidentiality does have to be taken into account. The secrecy surrounding SAPs involved too. But should we dismiss this information because of that and suspicion about the author?

I'm afraid that doesn't really wash. Case studies can be easily compiled maintaining confidentiality. Statistics by their very nature are without identities. Just look at the studies compiled as a direct result of the health hazards created by the 9/11 disaster. Statistically rich, devoid of individuals. A nice round 100 patients and Dr Green can't pull together a statistical analysis? Uh huh?

originally posted by: mirageman
Same as it ever was. Halt has said he has no intention of getting together with other witnesses. The spats between the others in the public eye continue to this day. Maybe that's by design?

I think much of that is due to human nature and I see no evidence of a grand design being involved in that.

The thing I keep wondering, or rather the question that hangs in my head is "What did you do?" I mean, what do they know that is so terrible that they need to cling to this archaic and decaying narrative...and I mean know-know, as in, because they did it.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Supposedly there is a paper due, according to Nolan.

Assuming you are right, then we have to consider when the idea of terahertz radiation as a UAP emission emerged.

My point being, that it is present in Condign long before we see the birth of AATIP / AAWSAP. Long before the creation of the experiencer group.

What the transatlantic link for terahertz radiation being emitted and injuring humans?

Where did it come from?

I'd STRONGLY suggest you look at the work of Graham Ennis, and his magazine writings. Back in the early 2000s he wrote about the frequency range of UAP emissions. He got it wrong by writing out what was actually gigahertz , but the range he's defined makes perfect sense if you consider it a typo in terms of zero when writing it out in numerals.

How, in early 2000s did Graham know enough to tell Birdsall's readers that terahertz was involved?

Options:
- He got access to the common source of the findings
- He got early access to Condign
- He was connected to Hal Puthoff who may have discovered this emission range from the sample Elizondo is talking now.

I have some further insights but they won't be much use without this.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I'm afraid that doesn't really wash. Case studies can be easily compiled maintaining confidentiality. Statistics by their very nature are without identities.... A nice round 100 patients and Dr Green can't pull together a statistical analysis? Uh huh?

I don't really understand the road you are going down here.

The book "Phenomena" wasn't about military and aerospace personnel injured by anomalous encounters. So why would such a study be provided ? It mentions the 'experiencer' group in one chapter as it brings things up to date. That links in with the NYT story

Researchers also studied people who said they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects

www.nytimes.com...

Which also links back to things Burroughs has confirmed and other information from TTSA and on here.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

If Penniston suffered from memory blocks that were implanted by AFOSI personnel, then it stands to reason he would gain those memories back over time. Not saying that is the case, but it is a viable possibility.

Do people regain their memories after they have been blocked by whatever means may have been used though? Or does it leave them susceptible to further 'manipulation' and perhaps losing touch with reality even more?

Is there anything out there to back either case?

There are plenty of cases I have read about that confirm all of the possibilities you mentioned. Some people do and some don't regain memories. Some remembered things fairly soon after an abduction event, and some much later, usually much later if hypnotic manipulation was implemented by so called government types and some never, or at least not up to the time much later that they were interviewed.

Some took their own life after they couldn't live with the aftermath of an event, abduction. And some I have read about lost marriages and family ties and their sanity over these things.

I can't cite any examples and am going purely from memory of what I have read in the past, so "grain of salt" applies here for those not well read into the literature.

originally posted by: ctj83
Assuming you are right, then we have to consider when the idea of terahertz radiation as a UAP emission emerged.

I wouldn't make that assumption. And good point. The Hessdalen project began publishing around 1998...I can't recall if they made those measurements...and what about Rutledge's 1981 book "Project Identification"? That I haven't read, just read about, so I can't say...Ennis has an engineering background, I expect he put two and two together rather than him having any particular "insider" information. Interesting chap, he clearly has a strong interest in electromagnetism...not finding much beyond Graham Hancock's website though, and I find Hancock hard to stomach...there's a good Guardian interview though (I am assuming it is the same chap).

originally posted by: mirageman
I don't really understand the road you are going down here.

Sshhh...don't tell anyone, but I don't either.

originally posted by: mirageman
The book "Phenomena" wasn't about military and aerospace personnel injured by anomalous encounters. So why would such a study be provided ? It mentions the 'experiencer' group in one chapter as it brings things up to date.

Why wouldn't such a study be provided (and I don't just mean in the book, my previous point about the book being that it is not providing any "new" information merely packaging existing information for delivery to the main stream audience)?

Remember the psychiatrist Dr John Mack who was pulled up by Harvard Medical School because it was deemed by them unethical for him to validate abductee's experiences without first subjecting them to a full battery of psychological tests to determine whether they were suffering some form of psychosis?

If Dr Green has gone even further than this and has actually established a pattern of physiological symptoms that have determined that those 100 or so individuals have indeed experienced what they claim to have experienced then there should be anonymous data that can be extracted from that which would aid further study...geographical locations of experiences, gender, age at time of (first) experience, ethnicity...alongside the comparative results of those brain scans, endocrine, DNA etc etc tests that Dr Green has compiled and what, if any, patterns have emerged. This part at least, it's not rocket science. Why wouldn't you do that? It's the obvious thing to do. Or perhaps there is another source for that that I am missing??

ETA: Unless he knows what caused the injuries, and again I mean knows-knows, and by revealing that data he would give far too much away.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Rutledge's book is profound and is hard to reconcile with anything I've read. It doesn't cover millimetre or terahertz though. Hessdalen never identified terahertz - at least not before 2000.

You are right about assumptions though - they are easy to make. You can see what I'm getting at here. When did this 'fact' emerge. Who was the source? Were there independent sources for identifying it?

Re Ennis, there is some interesting anecdotal evidence here. However,I don't think anyone could happen to land on that range precisely because that range doesn't seem to perform ANY obvious function that we observe in UAPs.

If you do have thoughts why Ennis could have deduced this range, I'd really like to hear them because otherwise we have just two primary sources for terahertz emissions from UFOS.

- Hal Puthoff, according to Linda Moulten Howe, on his analysis of the sample she was given
- Graham Ennis

My guess is that there are two options, but again if you see an alternative please let me know.

1) Graham Ennis had access to research we didn't back then (Condign, through his work?)
2) He or a close associate was told by Hal Puthoff

Which leaves us with, who came up with it first?
1) Ennis' employers
2) Hal PutHoff
3) Condign

If Condign was the first source, we know that this was a hatchet job to shut down the UFO desk that the 'Author' put a lot of effort into. In which case the discovery of Terahertz began in the UK.

If Ennis' had evidence of it first, it likely came from the UK Private sector

If Ennis was told of it then it likely came from Hal Puthoffs analysis of the Arts Parts / LMH samples in 1996.

If you can understand the breakthrough that identified this frequency range and it's source, you can attempt to understand the veracity of the UAP / Experiencer group, in my opinion.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I'll just add because it might help that from what I've read, there is a paper in the offing.

Heritage matters. One might say a single ethnic group is more predisposed.
It's possible from something else I've read that the children of a certain group are more likely to have the antenna
The group may have begun by identifying those who were more likely than chance to survive military engagement in places like Vietnam. Otherwise there was another group.
The antenna runs in families.
It relates to the ability to survive under stress

Do I believe in the 'antenna'? The jury is out.

Do I believe that Dr Green et all have discovered a repeating pattern of UBOs, perhaps in the left occipital lobe, epigenetic changes, chronic inflammation?

Yes.

a reply to: ctj83

Have you read the findings of the Omega 3 Study that was conducted in 2009?

Omega 3 Study

In summary, they found that people that experienced childhood trauma, were of native american descent or had associated bloodlines and had dabbled in Kundalini / Meditation / Yoga Practices were more likely to have "experiences" of the paranormal / Near Death Experiences.

In relation to Juicy Temporal lobes and EMF in relation to RFI in regards to what some of the witnesses stated in relation to "static" in the and air the previous Cobra Mist stuff, this is quite an interesting excerpt;

"abductees/experiencers appear to have more highly labile temporal lobe activity than do community comparison controls. This holds for both Temproal Lobe Signs and Complex Partial Epilepsy Signs. This in no way indicates that the abduction phenomena are the reductionist result of brain activity. What it does seem to point to is that the temporal lobes are more sensitive to electromagnetic changes in the environment and possibly to contact or other anomalous experiences. These brain areas may mediate the experiences in some manner."

Its worth a read in full....

a reply to: pigsy2400

I mentioned it a while back to Kevin Pretty Bear.

I think it's an avenue of important research.

I just don't see the men on the base having epilepsy in the case of the RFI.

There are instances like this, where nature / health issues seem to cross over into this field. The connection's seem unfathomable.

Colm Kelleher's book 'The Brainstrust" describes the patterns of cattle mutilations and how it indicates some form of Prion disease testing. It follows the jet stream to a degree. Then we have Kelleher in relation to Skinwalker being mystified over the cattle mysteries and mutilations there.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

The Hessdalen project began publishing around 1998.

I did not realize it was nearly a year after RFI that this started to occur in Norway.

In December 1981, unknown lights suddenly started to show up. The lights could stand still for more than an hour, they could move around slowly, and sometimes they could stop. They could also show a large speed: at one time a speed of about 8500 m/s was tracked by radar.

www.hessdalen.org...

a reply to: ctj83

If you can understand the breakthrough that identified this frequency range and it's source, you can attempt to understand the veracity of the UAP / Experiencer group, in my opinion.

This was messaged to me earlier.

Apparatus and method for remotely monitoring and altering brain waves. Detecting, measuring or recording for diagnosis by means of electric currents or magnetic fields; Measuring using microwaves or radiowaves using microwaves or terahertz waves

patents.google.com...

I need to dig into this further.

a reply to: mirageman

a twin peaks fan i see.

its funny the 'note' looks like the headers at the tops of TS documents.

and that is not even going into the strange trickster elements of the short guy and the helpful side of the giant and old man or benevolent creatures. the short man talks backwards and his lodge has A LOT of occult symbolism. im glad people made twin peaks a phenomenon



ETA: im only on season 2 E:17. the clip here made me want to watch the rest of the season and now its 5am

a reply to: penroc3

Oh contraire mon amie.

I've never been a fan of Twin Peaks. I think you are commenting in the wrong thread. I never mentioned Twin Peaks in that post you've replied to.

Of course there could be some strange synchronicity there with outer space signals and a strange realm located in the woods around Twin Peaks and parts of the Rendlesham story. But that might just be art imitating life.

a reply to: AdamE

Hessdalen has reports of lights going back to the 1930s. However its sparsely populated (only about 150 people live there now). So its entirely possible things were going on long before the 20th century. But the lights did seem to peak in the early 1980s.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: AdamE

Hessdalen has reports of lights going back to the 1930s. However its sparsely populated (only about 150 people live there now). So its entirely possible things were going on long before the 20th century. But the lights did seem to peak in the early 1980s.

Thanks mirageman. I have little knowledge in regards to the Hessdalen, but your description could match that of the Rendlesham area, as this too as we know, has a deep history with similar light phenomena.