Being christian while rejecting important OT figures?

reply to post by babloyi


I know for myself I reject any labels simply because they do not have a clear definition exactly with my train of thought regarding the whole picture of things and there are many just like me. No need for a label. I am a fan of Jesus. If he had a label that he called himself all the time, I may have a different view. He didn't. He spoke of no one religion per say, just cultural groups.

I think he is the coolest ( his-story anyway) dude to ever walk this earth that I have read about. lol I look up to him for the way he treated other people. His story is like all of us though, not so different. It holds true that if reincarnation is a fact then his soul overcame the first sin that was his to carry if he was the first man made in the flesh. Thats a pretty cool story right there.

If he was the first and will be the last and traveled the world within the flesh and spirit then it's no wonder the myths are similar.

Our being/soul made in the flesh is perhaps as cyclic as nature.

reply to post by babloyi

I know what Marcionism is. And no, that's not me. There are no 'lower deities' etc etc, and The Gospel of John is my favorite so obviously I don't reject the gospels and only accept Luke. .... It's just very simple ... Adam and Eve aren't necessary for Christianity. Neither is Noahs Ark. Jesus message is capable of standing on it's own. Jesus rewrote the old laws and established His church as the new 'law makers' (Matthew 16:18)

Very simple. Jesus came to save souls ... Love God and Neighbor.

Believing or disbelieving in a flood and a boat floating around with a pair of all the animals
on the planet has NOTHING to do with the message of Jesus. Not a darn thing. Believing
in Adam and Eve has nothing to do with Jesus message of love God and neighbor. Not a
darn thing. The leader of 1 billion Christians confirmed it.

Catholic Church and Evolution

In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.[1] Today, the Church supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation,[2] although Catholics are free not to believe in any part of evolutionary theory

And that's exactly what I believe .... God created humans ... He created our souls, and he created our bodies either through evolution or some other means .... but the story of Adam and Eve and a talking snake from 6,000 years ago is proven bunk. So there you have it. My beliefs on Adam and Eve are in line with the majority of Christianity.


I find it exceptionally funny that there are muslims coming on here trying to tell Christians what they have to believe in order to have the 'christian label' ... but they really haven't got a clue, and Muslims themselves can't even figure out what a 'real muslim' is.

reply to post by wildtimes


Hi wildtimes hope you are well


yes you are right, it is just normal Buddhism – I was over thinking it

it would be an interesting project to examine these two ideas (Buddhism/Gnosticism) side by side



Hi MamaJ
Thanks

And you end up with a religious story whose narrative actually works – or at least doesn’t look like it was put together by a committee or a psychotic war lord who was just making it up as he went along


Hi babloyi


Any idea why Marcion rejected the Gnostic label?

From the bits I have read about him I would have thought the Marcion/Gnostic thing was a "no brainer"

reply to post by FlyersFan

It's just very simple ... Adam and Eve aren't necessary for Christianity

Maybe not, but it creates the perfect story when you also believe that Jesus was the first and last Adam and why he said, "it's finished" is even more importance to the story.

It can be also easily be understood when we keep in mind what Jesus stands for. He is the Word. The Word expresses himself. Man too express himself in "his-story and this is why it is accurate to say with our WORDS that History ( His Story) repeats itself and it does so through us. Us meaning all the expressions of God.

God is expressing himself through ALL of creation. "Its" cyclic in nature.

Adam/Jesus/Other names split in the flesh to make human beings. "Let US create MAN in our OWN IMAGE" ring a bell? The WORD/JESUS/ ADAM/US expressed our self outwardly in this world and we are to express our self in ward now.. like a breath of awareness.

reply to post by FlyersFan

FlyersFan
I know what Marcionism is. And no, that's not me. There are no 'lower deities' etc etc, and The Gospel of John is my favorite so obviously I don't reject the gospels and only accept Luke. .... It's just very simple ... Adam and Eve aren't necessary for Christianity. Neither is Noahs Ark. Jesus message is capable of standing on it's own. Jesus rewrote the old laws and established His church as the new 'law makers'

Did he rewrite them? Seems to me he said they'd remain the same- and your example is perfect proof of the fact. "Love your neighbour as yourself" is from Leviticus. Did Moses steal that from the Egyptians so that Jesus could steal that from him? Since you seem to shy away from explaining what exactly of the NT you accept and what you reject, I have to take it as I see it.
If one were to say that the Golden (and Platinum) Rule was the sum totality of Christianity, I could get behind that. Jesus did say it, after all (at least according to the New Testament), But then people try sticking in stuff about Jesus dying for our sins...which definitely DOES require a (somewhat distorted) take on the OT. Who is to say that part wasn't added or (as you've called other parts of the NT before) "the ravings of an old man"?

FlyersFan
Believing in Adam and Eve has nothing to do with Jesus message of love God and neighbor. Not a
darn thing. The leader of 1 billion Christians confirmed it.

We've had this conversation before. I don't know how many ways I can explain it. I think even nenothtu tried. Proof of evolution isn't proof of the non-existence of Adam and Eve. The unlikelihood of OT (and NT) stories isn't proof of the nonexistence of the OT and NT figures. So no, your beliefs on Adam and Eve are NOT in line with the majority of Christianity. When you have the pope saying that Adam and Eve did not exist, then you can get back to me.

FlyersFan
I find it exceptionally funny that there are muslims coming on here trying to tell Christians what they have to believe in order to have the 'christian label' ... but they really haven't got a clue, and Muslims themselves can't even figure out what a 'real muslim' is.

Do you really find it all that funny? I've got pages and pages and pages and pages of you attempting to lecture Muslims on their own religion.

babloyi
Do you really find it all that funny? I've got pages and pages and pages and pages of you attempting to lecture Muslims on their own religion.

None of them are me telling sunni that they are real muslims and shia that they aren't.
Or that shia are real muslims and that sunni aren't.
Or that Muslims don't understand this Qu'ran verse but should instead think of it in this way ...
Or that Muslims don't understand that Qu'ran verse but should instead read it like Christians do.
Or that the Muslim poster doesn't understand Islam and so we should wait around and ask a
Muslim faction that disagrees with that poster to come on and say that he disagrees.

THAT is what Skorpion is doing in thread after thread after thread.

What I say about Islam is true ..... it was started by a murdering liar and is total fabrication.

I don't talk theology. I don't tell muslims which are 'real muslims' and which aren't.
I don't tell them to interpret their books like Christians do. I just say it's fake. (which it is)

NIGHT AND DAY difference between what Skorpion is always trying to do, and what I say.

babloyi
Did he rewrite them? Seems to me he said they'd remain the same-

An example of Jesus 'rewriting' Old Testament dietary laws declaring all foods clean -

Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him." And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Mark 7:14-19)

An example of Jesus 'rewriting' Old Testament Sabbath laws -

Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, "Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath." He said to them, "Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is lord of the Sabbath." (Matt. 12:1-8)

Jesus giving all authority to His Church - Matthew 16:18 & 19
He took it away from the Pharisees.

babloyi
your beliefs on Adam and Eve are NOT in line with the majority of Christianity.

AGAIN ... It is.

Catholic Church and Evolution

In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.[1] Today, the Church supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation,[2] although Catholics are free not to believe in any part of evolutionary theory

There is NOTHING there that says a person has to believe in Adam and
Eve to be Christian. Only that God made the soul and that God used some means to cause people
to 'be'. I can believe or not believe in Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden, and still be Christian.

Why you muslims are hung up on if I'm a Christian or not is really, really strange.
Seriously obsessive.

reply to post by racasan

There is more to Gnosticism than rejection of the OT. They have the idea that the world is an illusion, that God is physically in each of us, etc.
Doesn't all line up with Marcionism.


reply to post by FlyersFan

Nice examples, Flyers. Now please explain them in light of where Jesus said that not one iota of the Law of the Prophets was to be abolished until heaven and earth pass. Seems he kinda accepted them. Skorp even made a thread about how Jesus said to follow the words of the Pharisees, because they were in the seat of Moses (the Law of the OT).
See, it isn't enough to simply post counter-examples. You'd have to explain HOW your counter-examples reconcile with these statements by Jesus. Were these false? Did he not say them? Did someone make up these books?

FlyersFan
AGAIN ... It is.

Catholic Church and Evolution

This is getting a little disturbing with the repetition. Perhaps if you acknowledge that you can read what I am saying, you can understand what I am trying to say. You know the word "Evolution"? You know the word "Adam"? They are not opposites. Proof of one is not disproof of the other. The Catholic Church do not deny the existence of Adam. Quite the opposite. Their Catechism affirms it:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.

417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin".

So yeah. The "Vast Majority of Christians worldwide" accept the existence of Adam and Eve and other OT figures. I don't care whether you're christian or not, but you certainly do not share most of the religious beliefs of the "vast majority of Christians worldwide", specifically in regard to belief in the OT figures, which is what the OP's question seemed to be about.

reply to post by babloyi


Ah well I wasn’t thinking about just the OT thing but yes you are quite right


Thanks

en.wikipedia.org...

Marcion affirmed Jesus to be the saviour sent by the Heavenly Father, and Paul as his chief apostle. In contrast to the nascent Christian church, Marcion declared that Christianity was in complete discontinuity with Judaism and entirely opposed to the Old Testament message.

According to Marcion, the god of the Old Testament, whom he called the Demiurge, the creator of the material universe, is a jealous tribal deity of the Jews, whose law represents legalistic reciprocal justice and who punishes mankind for its sins through suffering and death. Contrastingly, the god that Jesus professed is an altogether different being, a universal god of compassion and love who looks upon humanity with benevolence and mercy. Marcion also produced his Antitheses contrasting the Demiurge of the Old Testament with the Heavenly Father of the New Testament.

So there is a precedent in Christianity for removing the old testament from the new

babloyi
explain them in light of where Jesus said that not one iota of the Law of the Prophets was to be abolished until heaven and earth pass. Seems he kinda accepted them.

You muslims really get hung up on that and refuse to see the rest. Strange, considering it isn't even your book. Obviously Jesus didn't accept them all. He changed some of them. I gave you some examples. And he put HIS CHURCH in charge of the law. His Church ... and the church disregards the laws of stoning people to death and it says you don't have to believe in Adam and Eve to be a Christian. Matthew 16:18-19. It's the right of the church to do so. Jesus gave it His full authority on earth.

If you don't believe that ... then don't be Christian. Go be a happy Muslim and stop being obsessed with what a 'real christian' is or isn't.

This is getting a little disturbing with the repetition.

No kidding.

The Catholic Church do not deny the existence of Adam. Quite the opposite. Their Catechism affirms it

The Pope said YOU DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE IT. I gave the encyclical. He said it doesn't matter if you believe that God used evolution or any other means, as long as you believe that Gods hand somehow created people and their souls. God may have made a first man and woman instantly or he may have used evolution ... but the Genesis story as it is, is not a required belief to be a 'christian'.

babloyi
So yeah. The "Vast Majority of Christians worldwide" accept the existence of Adam and Eve and other OT figures.

That was proven wrong waaaay back on pages 2 & 3 of this thread. The statistics show it's about 'half' ... and both those who do and dont' believe in Adam and Eve are still Christians. Your obsession with trying to prove me not a christian is really interesting.

And as the popes encyclical said ... it doesn't matter what someone believes in, as long as they believe that GOD is the one who generated the people and the souls.

Man you muslims sure are legalistic. Gotta' label people according to your own belief system.
What a miserable way to look at humanity.

reply to post by FlyersFan

FlyersFan
Obviously Jesus didn't accept them all. He changed some of them. I gave you some examples. And he put HIS CHURCH in charge of the law.

So you're saying Jesus was lying when he said not one iota of the law would be changed until heaven and earth pass? And that he was lying when he said to follow what the Pharisees say?

FlyersFan
He said it doesn't matter if you believe that God used evolution or any other means, as long as you believe that Gods hand somehow created people and their souls. God may have made a first man and woman instantly or he may have used evolution ... but the Genesis story as it is, is not a required belief to be a 'christian'.

I'm sorry, nobody is talking about evolution here at all. Nobody but you. Nobody even mentioned evolution. The OP doesn't say anything about evolution at all. Why are you trying to shift the argument to evolution? You might want to try the "Origins and Creationism" forum if you're really interested in that. Because nobody else here is.

babloyi
So you're saying Jesus was lying when he said not one iota of the law would be changed until heaven and earth pass? And that he was lying when he said to follow what the Pharisees say?

Already addressed this.

Christians Not Bound By Old Testament Law

Old Testament law, as such, is not binding on Christians. It never has been. In fact, it was only ever binding on those to whom it was delivered—the Jews (Israelites). That said, some of that law contains elements of a law that is binding on all people of every place and time. Jesus and Paul provide evidence of this in the New Testament.

Matthew’s Gospel enlightens us to Jesus’ teaching concerning Old Testament law:

[A Pharisee lawyer] asked him a question, to test him. "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." (Matt. 22:34-40)

In saying this, Jesus declared the breadth of the new law of his new covenant which brings to perfection the old law.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment" (CCC 2053).

REDISCOVER IT IN JESUS WHO IS IT'S PERFECT FULFILLMENT. JESUS ... He established the new law of his new covenant which brings to perfection the old law. JESUS perfected it. No need to look at the old, when the new is perfect.

nobody is talking about evolution here at all.

It's part of the statement from the Church. Did you even read it? If people believe in evolution, that's fine. If people don't believe in the Adam and Eve story, that's fine. Theistic Evolution is acceptable.
Catholic Church and Evolution

In the 1950 encyclical Humani generis, Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.[1] Today, the Church supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation,[2] although Catholics are free not to believe in any part of evolutionary theory

Why do you muslims care what Christians believe decides a real 'Christian' or not anyways?
It's silly. How many christians on this site go onto a Muslim thread and say 'you sunnis aren't
real Muslims because blah blah blah' or say 'you shia aren't real muslims because blah blah blah'
or how many CHristians go and start thread after thread telling muslim women that unless they
wear a hijab they aren't a 'real muslim' ... etc ... ??? None. It's really odd that you people are so
hyped up on 'what a real christian must believe in order to be a real christian'.

reply to post by FlyersFan

FlyersFan
Already addressed this.

No, you didn't. You just provided evidence that conflicted with the verses I provided. So that either means that Jesus was lying one of those times, or that the Bible is false one of those times. I don't deny that this conflicting evidence exists. I am just pointing out that it is conflicting.

FlyersFan
It's part of the statement from the Church. Did you even read it? If people believe in evolution, that's fine. If people don't believe in the Adam and Eve story, that's fine. Theistic Evolution is acceptable.

Yes, I did read it. It is the entire POINT of the statement from the Church. I don't care about the Church's opinion on evolution. That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. It'd be as if I brought forth evidence that Pope Francis likes spanish omelettes, and claim that is evidence of the Church's acceptance of extra-terrestrials.

You know what a "strawman" is? You constructed an imagined strawman of what I (and the OP) said with "You can't believe in evolution and be christian!" and tore it down, as if you proved my point wrong- except nobody here was arguing that you can't believe in evolution and be a christian. Nobody except you here is talking about evolution. It is absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Whether or not the Church believes in evolution has NOTHING to do with anything being talked about here, yet you keep bringing it up.

babloyi
So that either means that Jesus was lying, or that the Bible is false.

*sigh The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, "The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment" (CCC 2053).

Rediscover the law in Jesus ... who is the fulfillment of the law ... he changed some of the laws. He brought them to fulfillment and improved them. It's Christian theology ... i'm sure it's foreign to you. which is why non-Christians shouldn't armchair christian teaching. Ya'll won't be able to get it without studying it for a while.

Nobody except you here is talking about evolution.

Wrong. The CHURCH is talking about it. The CHURCH supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation. And that's what I believe in. Support for theistic evolution/evolutionary creationism means that people can buy the Adam and Eve story if they want, but they can also believe in evolution as long as they believe that God is guiding it ... and both groups are STILL CHRISTIANS. Therefore, the statistics I gave at the start of this thread showing that about half of Christians don't believe in the Adam and Eve story, and that's just fine.

WHY are you muslims so intent on trying to take away the 'christian' title from Christians?
What's it to you people anyways? Go believe in Adam and Eve and be 'good muslims' if you like.
Leave Christians to believe or disbelieve as they wish. They are still Christians.

reply to post by FlyersFan

FlyersFan
Rediscover the law in Jesus ... who is the fulfillment of the law ... he changed some of the laws.

You keep saying "changed" and I keep pointing you to the scripture where Jesus says NOTHING will be changed or removed until heaven and earth disappear.

FlyersFan
Wrong. The CHURCH is talking about it. The CHURCH supports theistic evolution(ism), also known as evolutionary creation. And that's what I believe in.

The church is also talking about extra-terrestrials. And condoms. And muslims worshipping the same God as them. However, just like your obsession with evolution, NONE of these subjects have ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand. YOU are the one who is constantly trying to drag it in.

FlyersFan
Therefore, the statistics I gave at the start of this thread showing that about half of Christians don't believe in the Adam and Eve story, and that's just fine.

No, actually, the statistics you showed at the start of this thread were about evolution (the the literalism of the Bible). Neither one of those topics touch on the rejection of OT figures.

FlyersFan
WHY are you muslims so intent on trying to take away the 'christian' title from Christians?
What's it to you people anyways? Go believe in Adam and Eve and be 'good muslims' if you like.
Leave Christians to believe or disbelieve as they wish. They are still Christians.

Mymymy....getting defensive. So you're saying that nobody except christians are allowed to question inconsistencies in christian theology? Only film-makers should rate films, only musicians should talk about the quality of music, only writers should discuss writing, everyone else should shut up?

reply to post by babloyi

You mean the Ahmadiyyah muslim who has it as an article of faith that Jesus lived and died in Kashmir?

Well, aside from the fact that I have come to think (in my very naive understanding of Islam) that Ahmadiyyah Islam is reasonable and calm...and a legitimate 'sect' of said 'Muslim ideology' (not just a religion, a culture!) I have to say that I agree with him'/them.....

What? Is he/are they "not real Muslims"?

babloyi
You keep saying "changed" and I keep pointing you to the scripture where Jesus says NOTHING will be changed or removed until heaven and earth disappear.

And I keep telling you the scriptures showing that he DID change them. And Christian theology says he fulfilled them and, as master, has a right to change/improve them. You, a muslim playing armchair detective with Christian theology, isn't going to understand the theology.

, just like your obsession with evolution, NONE of these subjects have ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand. YOU are the one who is constantly trying to drag it in.

1 - I'm not obsessed with evolution. Strawman.
2 - You can't discuss non-belief in Adam and Eve without acknowledging evolution.
3 - THE CHURCH calls it theo-evolutionary belief. 'Evolution' is part of the statement. The statement includes the fact that any belief is okay .. be it Adam and Eve or evolution ... as long as the person believes its Gods guiding hand doing it all.

No, actually, the statistics you showed at the start of this thread were about evolution (the the literalism of the Bible). Neither one of those topics touch on the rejection of OT figures.

Oh stop being obtuse. When 1/2 the Christians don't believe in Adam and Eve or in Noahs Ark .. then they are rejecting those characters and you darn well know it.

Mymymy....getting defensive.

No. I"m getting tired of you muslims arm chairing Christian theology when you haven't got a clue and you don't want to get a clue. It's STRANGE BEHAVIOR. It's absurd for you to sit there and attempt to judge if someone is a 'real christian' or not, when you don't even understand Christian theology. And you obviously don't really want to understand it.

Christians aren't going around here telling Muslims they aren't real christians for not wearing a hijab, and they aren't going around saying 'only shia are real muslims' .. etc. They wouldn't care enough or want to. Your OBSESSION in doing so with Christians is strange.

reply to post by wildtimes

wildtimes
Well, aside from the fact that I have come to think (in my very naive understanding of Islam) that Ahmadiyyah Islam is reasonable and calm...and a legitimate 'sect' of said 'Muslim ideology' (not just a religion, a culture!) I have to say that I agree with him'/them.....

So you accept what he says about history because you've come to think that his belief in Ahmadiyyah Islam (which is the root of his belief about Jesus in Kashmir, rather than actual history) is "reasonable and calm" and is a "legitimate sect"?

What? Is he/are they "not real Muslims"?
Did I say that? Read again what I said.


reply to post by FlyersFan

FlyersFan
And I keep telling you the scriptures showing that he DID change them. And Christian theology says he fulfilled them and, as master, has a right to change/improve them.

And the book has it written in clear black and white that whether or not he has the right to change them he said NOTHING will be changed until heaven and earth pass. Interesting. Someone is lying. I wonder who?

FlyersFan
1 - I'm not obsessed with evolution. Strawman.
2 - You can't discuss non-belief in Adam and Eve without acknowledging evolution.
3 - THE CHURCH calls it theo-evolutionary belief. 'Evolution' is part of the statement. The statement includes the fact that any belief is okay .. be it Adam and Eve or evolution ... as long as the person believes its Gods guiding hand doing it all.

I don't think you understand what a strawman is. I didn't "knock down" any argument about you being obsessed with evolution. I simply stated you were. I may be wrong to you, but that doesn't make it a strawman argument. And considering you keep bringing it up in a discussion that has nothing to do with it, I'm not wrong.
And I think you have a fundamental problem with understanding logic here. A person totally could, and can disbelieve in the existence of Adam and Eve and not accept evolution. The point is, whatever the "CHURCH" may decide to call it is irrelevant to this discussion, the only one talking about it here is YOU, and it has nothing to do with anything anyone has said.

FlyersFan
Oh stop being obtuse. When 1/2 the Christians don't believe in Adam and Eve or in Noahs Ark .. then they are rejecting those characters and you darn well know it.

Uh, no. Again, read my original response to your "statistics". Nowhere is it said that "1/2 the christians don't believe in Adam and Eve". What it said was that that the poll you quoted talked about the Genesis account of Creation, NOT the EXISTENCE of Adam and Eve. I hope you have the sense to understand that these are two separate topics.

FlyersFan
No. I"m getting tired of you muslims arm chairing Christian theology when you haven't got a clue and you don't want to get a clue. It's STRANGE BEHAVIOR. It's absurd for you to sit there and attempt to judge if someone is a 'real christian' or not, when you don't even understand Christian theology. And you obviously don't really want to understand it.

And you are supposed to be "giving" that clue? I'm sorry, but your arguments and responses are nowhere near as cogent and sensible as you might think. Constantly repeating the same thing over and over does not a response make. You keep going on and on and on and on about how I am trying to judge whether someone is a "real christian" or not, but I haven't made any such claim anywhere at all in this thread. At the most, I parroted back your phrase at you, that "the vast majority of christians worldwide" do not share your beliefs.

FlyersFan
Christians aren't going around here telling Muslims they aren't real christians for not wearing a hijab, and they aren't going around saying 'only shia are real muslims' .. etc. They wouldn't care enough or want to. Your OBSESSION in doing so with Christians is strange.

Actually, yeah, they are. And you are too. I've seen so often you lecturing (or egging on someone else lecturing) muslims on what their "TRUE" religion is, and how horrible it is, and if they deny that or don't do something YOU consider to be Islam, then they'r liarse or ignorants or doing "taqiyya".
You're right. Perhaps it is unkind of m to say so, but it IS quite funny to see the you squirming and complaining when the same is done to you. Except in this case you don't seem to have any sensible response to it.