Being christian while rejecting important OT figures?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


love is not lust... and love has to be taught and learned.

makes us all human

MamaJ

I have always thought it so sad that Abraham sent them away because of his "slave woman". It's a wonder he came to Abraham's funeral.

Does/Did it even matter he had an affair? Nope.. So... Yeah... Gotta love the Old Testament. lol

MamaJ,

I do not travel to the East..up seven steps..but I know what it means...and have known for over 20 years now.

I have also read Manely Palmer Hall's book "The Secret Teachings of All Ages." Same thing for Albert Pikes book. "Morals and Dogma." Also some other esoteric works.

I have been to the Edgar Caycee Museum down in Virginia Beach, Virginia. A very interesting place both in it's construction and in it's library. Not your standard every day library..particularly the section in the back where you find subjects like Emanuel Swedenborg. Lots of esoteric works to be found there.



But getting back to the topic of Abraham and his "affair."

This "affair" is of the flesh..and not worth of being talked about unless one is stuck in the flesh. Not so with Abraham and Sarah.

For the Word states that Abraham went into Hagar at the insistance of his wife Sarah...that they could have a child under the law of the nation under which they lived at the time.
This was so becuse Hagar was the bondwoman of Sarah..not the bondwoman of Abraham. If Hagar had been the bondwoman of Abraham...the child would not have been Sarah's child under the law of that nation. But since Sarah "Consented" this changes the arrangement.

But the tendency of the flesh today is to keep to the flesh as is always the "Tradition of men."

Sarah agreed to it!!

There is no affair here under the laws of that time.

Jerry!!....Jerry!!....Jerry!!

Does someone need to take a DNA and a Lie Detector Test here??

Abraham did not want to send the child, Ishmael, away for he loved that child ..his first born.

But God told Abraham ..."Harken unto your wife!!"

There was obviously some girl stuff going on between these two women...not with Abraham.

Sarah decided the pecking order was her's and her child's pecking order...Issac. It was Sarah who did not want the child Ishmael to inherit with Issac.

But in the end God decided...for it was God who made both Abraham and Sarah fertile when it was long past time for the both of them. God did it when men could do nothing. When men were powerless to do anything.

In the end ...it was what God wanted and determined..not men. And Abraham was faithful in carrying it out. For the line of Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins is through Issac..not through Ishmael. That is the goal and intention here..not man's will or man's guilt manipulations/censorship as is so popular today.



Jesus the Christ for Remission of sins..never looked to the East for his instruction. This is obvious from the Olde Testament unto the New Testament.

In the Olde Testament in Genesis chapter 12 verse 8 it states that Abraham removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of Bethel and pitched his tent (KJV Version) having Bethel on the west and Hai on the east.

Alot of trouble is gone through to indicate that Bethel is in the West and Hai is in the East.

The word Bethel breaks down to Beth-House and El-God...house of God in the West. To go to God one goes West.

Hai means garbage dump or refuse pit..in the East. To go to the garbage dump or refuse pit one goes to the East.

Abraham pitched his tent in the correct place..showing he was between the two religions..the one to the West...and the one to the East..here on this earth. God was the determiner here.

The tabernacle in the wilderness...the Hebrews were told how to build all the furniture and how to lay out the tent...just so. When you work it out ..the high priest went into the tabernacle ..going from the East to go West in going to God to the inner court where was kept the Holy of Holies...always going West..with the blood of the sacrifices sprinkled on his footsteps to clean his sinful ways...but the high priest went West..not East. Thus indicating mans journey to go from sin back to God..to go West.

Same thing with the temple of Solomon...and how it was built...always the High Priest went to God going West..never East.

In the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve were cast out they were cast out to the East at the entrance where there were two Cheribum with the flaming swords guarding the gate..but they went East when cast out ..away from God.

Every knowledgeable initiate under the oath asks another initiate..."Have you been to the east???" In otherwords ..have you been away from God and towards the other god?? To the rising sun..in the east. But they will declare that they go to the west to seek that which is lost. Going to God in the West one is never lost. One is always with an Anchor..with Salt..the Salt of the earth.

Same thing ..abomination ...speaking of the elders in the temple in Ezekiel Chapter 8...worshiping the sun in the east.
Abomination.

But no one sees what we do ...do they Mama J???

Jesus the Christ for Remission of Sins never taught from the doctrines of the East...from the Talmud.

But the Pharisees did as they overlaid secret Talmudic teachings on top of the Law of Moses as if it was the Law of Moses and it was no such thing.

And I know that the Talmud is a secret doctrine from Babylon and the East. A set of rules to allow one to get around the rules. It is indeed ancient. It is of royalty ..feudalism...divine right of kings. It is not an American Principle.
But most Americans do not know of it's existance or what it means or signifies.

Today these same Pharisees and counterfeits are still here today ..teaching counterfeit doctrine and even in our schools teaching the same...in our government and news media teaching the same. Those versed in the Word can see it as if they were unclothed. I see it often.

The Eastern Doctrine is found in the Egyptian beliefs..and Moses was raised an Egyptian...and not just any Egyptian..but in the inner court of Pharoah's house. Moses knew what they were doing in the inner workings of the Egyptian Religion.

Yes...Moses was an initiate..but God called him out of this religion from the East to go West. And Moses never looked back.

So too with the Apostle Paul..for he too was in the inner court of the Counterfeiting Pharisees. And in one day he was called out to know the difference....to the West and never looked back.

So too it was with Charles Finney and others in history. They never looked back.

Hope this helps some of the readers here.

Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


I love the esoteric teachings and have listened to many of Manly's lectures as well as a fan of Cayce's. ;-)

Here is where the root of the problem lies.

But getting back to the topic of Abraham and his "affair."

This "affair" is of the flesh..and not worth of being talked about unless one is stuck in the flesh. Not so with Abraham and Sarah.

Abraham and Sarah intended ( their hearts intent) the affair to have a good cause in favor of them. They were servicing them selves. They did not think about the unborn nor did they think of Hagar which I am sure was slaved unto the very act.

When the act did not go in their favor they continued to be selfish, all the while with God's blessing?

They both had an intent within their heart to service them self. The wife can be seen here similar to that of Eve. It just never stops. lol It's cyclic in human nature.

I do not have a hardened heart nor do I think there is one "man" that is chosen while another is kicked out into the wilderness to fend for himself and not chosen.

Abraham and Sarah's fleshy nature is the reason Ismael was even born. What did he do to deserve to be an heir of the less chosen?

The story does not add up for me, in the least.

I wont go into the "east" as the Sun/Son will always rise in the East. There is an astrological story to the Bible and I find it more fitting to the heart, indeed.

Mama J,


Agree..in that Abraham and Sarah thought they would help God along. As I stated...God did it Himself when men could do nothing.

It was so with Gideon and the 300...so too it was with Jacob and Esau....twin brothers...of the same lump of clay.

One was chosen ..Jacob..and Esau was not chosen.

So too was it at the walls of Jericho. When men could do nothing.


The cyclical nature of men and the traditions of men is what we see in history both secular and Religious. In religion it takes the form of men saving themselves.

I do not have a hardened heart nor do I think there is one "man" that is chosen while another is kicked out into the wilderness to fend for himself and not chosen.

But chosen people do not choose..they are chosen by God and for His purposes. This is opposite to the doctrines of the religions of the east.

This is exactly what is taught in the lesson of Jacob and Esau..twins from the same lump of clay. One was chosen the other not chosen..even before they were born ..neither having done any good or evil...that the purpose of God might stand.
God chooses who are his and puts his heart into them..His People for His purposes.

One of the other reasons for the Olde Testament is that we might understand the pattern of Gods operating ..His reasons...His patterns.

For it is also the story of a people chosen ..who constantly messed up...and finally finding disfavor with God...only to lose everything by 70 AD.

What one learns in the pattern is that very cyclical thing you mentioned...that the Christians are following this same pattern of disobedience today...many of them without knowing it. Their ministers are not teaching them the whole council of God..but the Talmidic version..the traditions of men.

I wont go into the "east" as the Sun/Son will always rise in the East. There is an astrological story to the Bible and I find it more fitting to the heart, indeed.

The knowledge of the "East" and the traditions of the "East," The traditions of men..is one of the Patterns of which I spoke. It is a highly organized system of disobedience and many ministers are in it under oath.

The pattern is not astrological but in Astronomy...and it is fitting to God's Heart..not men's heart. That too is the difference in the religions and systems attempting to take place and struggling today in "The Ever War."

We are talking about two diffrent Sons here you and I.
This too is the Two Systems. This is "The Ever War."

Thanks for your posts,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


Ok... I see. For a minute I didn't know where you were going and glad you clarified because I was thinking you were not "getting it" and maybe it was because you were indoctrinated so to speak. Meaning understanding my train of thought, but I think we are on the same wavelength. It took me longer. lol I am a Pisces.

What one learns in the pattern is that very cyclical thing you mentioned...that the Christians are following this same pattern of disobedience today...many of them without knowing it. Their ministers are not teaching them the whole council of God..but the Talmidic version..the traditions of men.

Exactly!

However I don't think any certain one is chosen unless maybe before we were in the flesh perhaps. Maybe we were chosen then to do a job here on Earth but to say God loves one more than another one of his children is simply placing God on a human level and having a bias. I don't see God like that.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Jesus teaching matches Buddahs.

I might believe that when I see proper Bible-believing Christians come up and admit that. Till then, you can splash around all you want in your personal belief system.

reply to post by FlyersFan

You do realize that waaaay back on pages 2 & 3 of this thread, I showed that at least half of Christianity agrees with me about the Old Testament characters, right? Good.

All you have done is present a bunch of statistics... that only proves that Christianity, is collapsing. It does NOT in any way prove that your bizarre belief system is somehow the correct version of Christianity, but feel free to think otherwise.

Also, there is a good reason why proper, Bibe believing Christian ATSers have NOT stepped in to defend your beliefs as Christian or anything remotely close to it.

sk0rpi0n
I might believe that when I see proper Bible-believing Christians come up and admit that. Till then, you can splash around all you want in your personal belief system.

Wrong, genius. Its NOT my 'personal belief system'.
I provided a side by side comparison of the two teachings.
Irrefutable evidence that it is indeed possible that Jesus could have learned Buddhism.
I didn't say that he did. I said that it's possible. ADDRESS THE ISSUE FOR A CHANGE


Was Jesus Buddhist

JESUS: "A foolish man, which built his house on sand."
BUDDHA: "Perishable is a city built on sand." (30)
JESUS: "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed."
BUDDHA: "Confess before the world the sins you have committed." (31)
JESUS: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the foregiveness of sins."
BUDDHA: "Let all sins that were committed in this world fall on me, that the world may be delivered." (32)
JESUS: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."
BUDDHA: "Consider others as yourself." (33)
JESUS: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."
BUDDHA: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon all desires and utter no evil words." (34)
JESUS: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
BUDDHA: "Hatreds do not cease in this world by hating, but by love: this is an eternal truth. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good." (35)
JESUS: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
BUDDHA: "Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." (36)
JESUS: "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her."
BUDDHA: "Do not look at the faults of others or what others have done or not done; observe what you yourself have done and have not done." (37)
JESUS: "You father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous."
BUDDHA: "The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low." (38)
JESUS: "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."
BUDDHA: "The avaricious do not go to heaven, the foolish do not extol charity. The wise one, however, rejoicing in charity, becomes thereby happy in the beyond." (39)

sk0rpi0n
All you have done is present a bunch of statistics...

Statistics that show you are DEAD WRONG when you say that in order to be a Christian you have to buy the entire Old Testament as a literal historical book and not as containing some myth, allegory and folklore.

You continually LIE and say that what I'm stating is my own brand of bizarre belief system. I have show that it isn't. But I guess telling lies to fulfill your own agenda is okay in Islam right? Talk about a bizarre belief system ... wow!

that only proves that Christianity, is collapsing.

Only in your dreams. Not even close.

It does NOT in any way prove that your bizarre belief system is somehow the correct version of Christianity,

1 - The majority of Christians believe it ... it's not 'my bizarre belief system.
2 - Your muslim inspired version of 'how to read the bible' is not the 'correct' version of Christianity. The fact that you think it is ... that's a strange thought process.

Also, there is a good reason why proper, Bibe believing Christian ATSers have NOT stepped in to defend your beliefs as Christian or anything remotely close to it.

1 - They don't bother responding to your threads because all these threads are is a militant muslim refusing to acknowledge information that runs counter to his programming.

2 - 'proper bible believing christians' are ALL Christians who believe that Jesus came from Heaven to save souls. Those are 'proper bible believing christians'. Not just the fundamentalists.

3 - Not all Christians read the bible the same way, just as not all Muslims practice Islam the same way. That doesn't make the Christians any less of a Christian and it doesn't make the Muslims any less of a Muslim.

You've been proven wrong for more than a dozen pages.
Your obsession with this is not healthy.

@flyersfan..... You are on your own when it comes to thinking Jesus' teaching included Buddhism. So don't delude yourself into thinking your beliefs match that of mainstream christianity. It doesn't.

double post or something ....

reply to post by FlyersFan


actually that's an interesting subject... some may not be alone on that idea.

it's all parables and pieces imo sometimes.

skorpion .... ADDRESS THE ISSUE ...

Those who think Jesus studied Buddhism have put these comparisons forward.
If you think he didn't ... then answer how it is that these are the same.
Those who believe it have a good point. It COULD have happened.
Don't toss insults and off topic rants ... ADDRESS THE ISSUE

Was Jesus Buddhist

JESUS: "A foolish man, which built his house on sand."
BUDDHA: "Perishable is a city built on sand." (30)
JESUS: "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed."
BUDDHA: "Confess before the world the sins you have committed." (31)
JESUS: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the foregiveness of sins."
BUDDHA: "Let all sins that were committed in this world fall on me, that the world may be delivered." (32)
JESUS: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."
BUDDHA: "Consider others as yourself." (33)
JESUS: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."
BUDDHA: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon all desires and utter no evil words." (34)
JESUS: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
BUDDHA: "Hatreds do not cease in this world by hating, but by love: this is an eternal truth. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good." (35)
JESUS: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
BUDDHA: "Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." (36)
JESUS: "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her."
BUDDHA: "Do not look at the faults of others or what others have done or not done; observe what you yourself have done and have not done." (37)
JESUS: "You father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous."
BUDDHA: "The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low." (38)
JESUS: "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."
BUDDHA: "The avaricious do not go to heaven, the foolish do not extol charity. The wise one, however, rejoicing in charity, becomes thereby happy in the beyond." (39)

sk0rpi0n
You are on your own when it comes to thinking Jesus' teaching included Buddhism.

Hey genius ... I said IT IS NOT MY BELIEF.
I said that those who think he studied Buddhism have a good argument.
I acknowledged their position and their information.
I very clearly said it wasn't my belief.

Geeeze ... learn how to freak'n read.

So don't delude yourself into thinking your beliefs match that of mainstream christianity. It doesn't.

You are the one who is deluded. My beliefs match a large portion of other Christians.
I have proven that on pages one and two.
Your OBSESSION with refusing to acknowledge that is sick. Really .. sick.

@flyersfan.... ''what I'm stating is my own brand of bizarre belief system. '' _________________________________________ Proper Christians revere Adam, Noah, Moses and Abraham. You dismiss some as myths and insult others. Nevermind muslims, even Christians would disagree with you. Furthermore, you believe Jesus' teachings included Buddhism. Thats an extremely personal belief system far removed from Biblical Christianity.

@flyersfan,,,,,''

Those who think Jesus studied Buddhism have put these comparisons forward.'' _________________________________________ Are those people who think Jesus ''studied Buddhism'' are entitled to their thoughts. But are they Biblical Christians? Or are they secularists/universalists? care to cite the names,backgrounds and credentials of those people who ''think Jesus studied Buddhism''?

sk0rpi0n
@flyersfan.... ''what I'm stating is my own brand of bizarre belief system. '' _________________________________________ Proper Christians revere Adam, Noah, Moses and Abraham. You dismiss some as myths and insult others. Nevermind muslims, even Christians would disagree with you. Furthermore, you believe Jesus' teachings included Buddhism. Thats an extremely personal belief system far removed from Biblical Christianity.

actually proper Christians believe in the message of Jesus Christ... that's all it takes, nothing more.

that's why we're not killing each other over it unlike our 3rd branch Islam.

the different sects of the religion of Mohammed war with each other and murder one another over interpretation variations.

that's not the message bro

sk0rpi0n
Proper Christians revere Adam, Noah, Moses and Abraham. You dismiss some as myths and insult others.
Nevermind muslims, even Christians would disagree with you.

PROVEN WRONG ON FIRST THREE PAGES OF THIS THREAD. no matter how many times you repeat that lie, that wont' change the facts. So Islam says it's good for you to lie and lie and lie??? What a sucky religion.

Furthermore, you believe Jesus' teachings included Buddhism. Thats an extremely personal belief system far removed from Biblical Christianity.

I HAVE SAID VERY CLEARY THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS TEACHING BUDDHISM BUT THAT THOSE WHO THINK HE DID HAVE A GOOD CASE.

STOP TELLING LIES.
STOP OBSESSING ABOUT ME
ADDRESS THE TOPIC.
YOU'VE BEEN PROVEN WRONG.

SisyphusRide
actually proper Christians believe in the message of Jesus Christ... that's all it takes, nothing more.

He was told that on the first three pages of this thread.
He won't man up and admit it. (and he keeps telling lies about me ... his obsession is sick)

Believe that Jesus came from heaven to save souls .... try to love god and neighbor.
That's it. Christianity is simple.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Are those people who think Jesus ''studied Buddhism'' are entitled to their thoughts.

Yes, they are.

But are they Biblical Christians?

No, if you are defining a "Biblical Christian" as a fundamentalist Bible-thumper. Yes, if you are defining Christians with open minds.

Or are they secularists/universalists?

Makes no difference.

care to cite the names,backgrounds and credentials of those people who ''think Jesus studied Buddhism''?

How many do you need?

Fida Hasssnain

Dr Hassnain's Credentials
1946 - MA
1947 - L.L.B.
1953 - Dr. Archaeology
1974 - Dr. Indology
1979 - Master of Divinity
1983 - D. Metaphysics
1987 - Rashtra Sanskriti Samrat
1988 - Doctor of Sufism
1989 - Special Citation, Yoga Convocation
1990 - D. Litt.
1992 - Peace Award
1993 - Paracharya Award
1995 - Vishwaadhyamik Jagat Guru
1996 - Dr. of Self Realisation
1998 - Sufi Murshid
1999 - Gem of Alternative Medicines
2000 - Ph.D (A.M.) Calcutta

Professor Fida Hassnain is now the single most credentialed person who has an intimate interest in and thorough knowledge of the theory concerning a post-crucifixion life of Jesus Christ. He is the former Director of Archives, Archaeology, Research and Musems for Kashmir, and was once listed in Who's Who in Archaeology. He was totally in charge of ancient Kashmiri documents that contain mention of Jesus Christ in India.

Dr. Hassnain was born in Srinagar, the city that houses the tomb of Jesus, in the year 1924. In 1954 he became the Director of the Kashmir State Archives, of Archaeological Research and Museums, and retired from that position in the year 1983.

Elaine Pagels

Elaine Pagels, née Hiesey (born Palo Alto, California, February 13, 1943), is the Harrington Spear Paine Professor of Religion at Princeton University. The recipient of a MacArthur Fellowship, she is best known for her studies and writing on the Gnostic Gospels. Her popular books include The Gnostic Gospels (1979), Adam, Eve, and the Serpent (1988), The Origin of Satan (1995), Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas (2003), Reading Judas: The Gospel of Judas and the Shaping of Christianity (2007), and Revelations: Visions, Prophecy, and Politics in the Book of Revelation (2012).[1]

Elaine Pagels
Born February 13, 1943 (age 70)
Palo Alto, California, USA
Residence United States
Fields History of religion
Institutions
Princeton University

Barnard College
Alma mater
Harvard University

Stanford University
Known for
Nag Hammadi manuscripts

Early Christianity
Notable awards MacArthur Fellowship (1981)
National Book Award (1980)
National Book Critics Circle Award (1979)
Guggenheim Fellowship (1979)
Rockefeller Fellowship (1978)
Howard T. Behrman Award for Distinguished Achievement in the Humanities (2012)

This site has a list of the researchers under "Researchers"
www.tombofjesus.com...

There are twelve MORE of them on the site. But I'm not going to waste my time retyping their names just to appease you. Look at the website.
Hassnain is a Sufi Mystic; Pagels is a religious professor specializing in early Christianity.
The rest you can look into yourself.