Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

wildtimes
reply to post by Logarock

 

Jesus did not by any stretch preach reincarnation.

Yes, Log, he did. It was widely believed and accepted at the time, and his words in several passages indicate that is PRECISELY what he was talking about. It's not even much of a "stretch". "Born again". Pretty clear.

What he said was a man is born of water, out of his mothers womb, but must be born of the water and the spirit. And its clear hes talking about the physical birth and then a spiritual birth.

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Two births one of the flesh the other of the spirit. Not even the slightest indication of reincarnation here.

Morg234

Jesus is the most documented person in History.

reply to post by whyamIhere

 

This must be sarcasm, surely.

You just documented him.

We are still discussing him.

Also, I qualified later in the thread as "ancient history".

By documented I am not referring to every scrap of parchment ever found.

I mean talked about, written about, and the most important figure in Human History.

You see one of the things that is wrong here, about this pronouncement on inventing Jesus, is that they are doing this to put down the message of Peace and Love, which is what Christianity is about, which is why they are so opposed to Christianity, for they created their own downfall. And that was not without Higher Power's Hand. To make slaves well managed basically, and to twist God into the opposite and have them all given over in rituals and sacraments to the demiurge or a negative basically, a smiter, or Saturn and or/Baal. This seems to be the plan. Oops, Christians who follow Christ, as opposed to old testament things, tend to be into social justice, and equalizing, and democracies, and many of them, the ones not fundamental, know its metaphoric and that Rome had a hand in some of the things written. You should hear the debates amongst Christians in their own families. I grew up like that.

Now you've got quite a force for Love, and the more you Love and do Good, the more the Good Family of Saints and Angels come in and help, (both in spirit form and ET FORM) they also break all those bonds and fine print things. Akin to Christ, writing in the sand with his finger when they brought up a terrible smiting law about stoning a woman to death. ie. telling us, there was a real Love Law within us, we already have access to within, and Discernment, and breaking the bonds of their fine print, for it recognizes their entrapmetns and psuedo laws as actual Crimes in themselves.

They don't like Christianity much.

But my faith in Christ is real whether Christ is real or not, for the very gnostic heart of the message is about overcoming your body suit impulses to harm and be selfish, and overcoming the world and programs, to seek within and help others, to allign your inner and outer, conscious and subconsioucs, left and right hemipsheres, and to also wake up the third eye on a High Frequency and Become, the Son/Daughter of God/Goodness. We all have Intercessor/Christ/Good Family. We are Infinite Parts of Infinity, Infinity Branches, of the Infniite Tree(s), with Consciousness Co-Joining us all and especially on Higher Levels of Understanding and Oneness.

So Christ is real, no matter what, and yet...one needs discernment to not follow the dark path in anything, to hunt each passage to find the love meaing, its not the smiting one, and if you can't then you know Rome put it there.

They took a libary of old school knowledge, from a past cycles, and broke it up into smaller pieces, and scattered them.

But the real test is learning not to just believe and follow something as it appears on the surface and give your discernment and power away. Never let another direct your mind that way. Seek and pray and meditate for yourself.

But they won't taking Christ, or the Spirit of Peace and Love from me.

Because Christ is real, whether they've repackaged the story, or whether they've added to it, or whatever they've done, the real Christ is forfather of the human race, basically. Adam/Atom, Michael/Christ.

reply to post by Logarock

What he said was a man is born of water, out of his mothers womb, but must be born of the water and the spirit. And its clear hes talking about the physical birth and then a spiritual birth.

Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Two births one of the flesh the other of the spirit. Not even the slightest indication of reincarnation here.

Actually, I see a HUGE indication of reincarnation, right there.

Water is amniotic fluid. Spirit is what we ALL are born with. We must be born of water (amniotic fluid) AND spirit again (and again and again if we're slow on the uptake)...until we "reunite" with the Divine.

It speaks directly of reincarnation. But, believe whatever you want. He taught it. Whether YOU think he did or not is irrelevant.

reply to post by whyamIhere

By documented I am not referring to every scrap of parchment ever found.

I mean talked about, written about, and the most important figure in Human History.

And every single bit of it based on hearsay.

Hearsay is not "documentation." But I see you understand that. Cool. :thumb up:

windword


Not only did Jesus teach that we all are "born again", he taught that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah!

John the Baptist was a type of Elijah, otherwise known as the voice of one "crying in the wilderness". The original Elijah was "taken up" and resides in a transfigured state, a state of temporary suspension, until he comes back before Christ's second return.

John has already died, Elijah never died and thus couldn't have been born as John. Elijah's death is reserved for the final chapter of human rule on the earth during the days of the anti-Christ and false prophet.

This is not an indication of reincarnation at all.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I didn't know there were unicorns mentioned in the bible. What book chapter and verse? Do I now have to start believing in Unicorns? I don' t have a problem with that because unicorns are lovely creatures but I need to know .

Job 39:9-12
King James Version (KJV)
9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?

11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?

12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?

Psalms 29:6     “He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.”
Psalms 92:10    “But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.”
Deuteronomy 33:17    “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”
Psalms 22:21    “Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.”
Isaiah 34:7     “And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.”

---------------------------------

But please you do not need to start believing in them now.

reply to post by Logarock

What he said was a man is born of water, out of his mothers womb, but must be born of the water and the spirit. And its clear hes talking about the physical birth and then a spiritual birth.

Water is a feminine energy and highly connected with the aspects of the Goddess. Used for healing, cleansing, and purification, Water is related to the West, and associated with passion and emotion. In many spiritual paths, including Catholicism, consecrated Water can be found – holy water is just regular water with salt added to it, and usually a blessing or invocation is said above it. In Wiccan covens, such water is used to consecrate the circle and all the tools within it. As you may expect, water is associated with the color blue, and the Tarot suit of Cup cards.

This is some of what water represents to the people who first started using it ritually. It is interesting that water should be held sacred by a man who places power on man, given the feminine nature of the element. But as with all things, there are two sides to the power of water. There are those things whose natures are aligned with purity, and those things whose nature is essentially that of change. Change is not purity. Change is the constant transformation, the input and the output. It will never be one thing entirely, nor will it always be a set mixture. The best water can do for that sort of nature is ensure that the transformations are done cleanly and clearly, rather than a chaotic turmoil without direction or meaning.

The rest is up to you.

wildtimes
reply to post by whyamIhere

 

By documented I am not referring to every scrap of parchment ever found.

I mean talked about, written about, and the most important figure in Human History.

And every single bit of it based on hearsay.

Hearsay is not "documentation." But I see you understand that. Cool. :thumb up:

Hearsay is second hand. At least 3 of the accounts are 1st person eyewitness accounts. They are nothing like what qualifies as hearsay.


By the way, what do you consider official documentation? Something with a roman stamp on it?

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Logarock

 

What he said was a man is born of water, out of his mothers womb, but must be born of the water and the spirit. And its clear hes talking about the physical birth and then a spiritual birth.

Water is a feminine energy and highly connected with the aspects of the Goddess. Used for healing, cleansing, and purification, Water is related to the West, and associated with passion and emotion. In many spiritual paths, including Catholicism, consecrated Water can be found – holy water is just regular water with salt added to it, and usually a blessing or invocation is said above it. In Wiccan covens, such water is used to consecrate the circle and all the tools within it. As you may expect, water is associated with the color blue, and the Tarot suit of Cup cards.

This is some of what water represents to the people who first started using it ritually. It is interesting that water should be held sacred by a man who places power on man, given the feminine nature of the element. But as with all things, there are two sides to the power of water. There are those things whose natures are aligned with purity, and those things whose nature is essentially that of change. Change is not purity. Change is the constant transformation, the input and the output. It will never be one thing entirely, nor will it always be a set mixture. The best water can do for that sort of nature is ensure that the transformations are done cleanly and clearly, rather than a chaotic turmoil without direction or meaning.

The rest is up to you.

I hear what you are saying but if you go back to the text Jesus himself explains he is talking about a woman "breaking water" during the physical birth. This was his response to the question... " can a man enter a second time into his mothers womb". Nothing mystical or metaphysical here.

reply to post by BO XIAN


You can say the same thing about believers. They believe out of emotion not based in any provable facts.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Hey that's my cat your monkey has there. What is he doing to her?

Is this just a repackaging of zeitgeist's Ge"Zeus"?

reply to post by AutumnWitch657


He is an Ape not a Monkey our evolutionary cousin (Sorry creationists it is true).
Just making sure Kitty is clean for you.

reply to post by Logarock


The Old Testament prophecy of the coming of the messiah required that "the spirit of Elijah" return, as a voice in the wilderness, to make a way for the messiah. We are not our bodies and Elijahs old body wouldn't do. He needed to be "born again", like everyone who is born of the spirit.

The spirit of Elijah was born into John the Baptist, according to the words of Jesus himself. Jesus never said John the Baptist is a "type" of Elijah, he said John the Baptist IS Elijah. Jesus was raised at the foot of Mount Carmel, a short walk away from Elijah's Cave, and from the center of the Nazorean Essene headquarters, in the tiny settlement of Nazareth.

(Still don't see the link?)

Who was said to appear with Jesus before his ascension? Elijah, not an Elijah type figure! John was Elijah, and his appearance with Jesus confirms it.

Without Elijah, the Old Testament prophecy falls apart.

Reincarnation in intrinsic to the Jesus story. It can't be separated.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Look for an off topic post removal. Sorry APE. Mia cleans herself. He's molesting her!!!

reply to post by Logarock

I hear what you are saying but if you go back to the text Jesus himself explains he is talking about a woman "breaking water" during the physical birth. This was his response to the question... " can a man enter a second time into his mothers womb". Nothing mystical or metaphysical here.

Nothing mystical? LOL

Job 1:21
He said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked I shall return there

Reincarnation is intrinsic to the teachings of Jesus.

reply to post by windword



I would love to debate this. Maybe you should open a thread because we will blog this thread down with a discussion on reincarnation and Jesus.

windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

The Old Testament prophecy of the coming of the messiah required that "the spirit of Elijah" return, as a voice in the wilderness, to make a way for the messiah. We are not our bodies and Elijahs old body wouldn't do. He needed to be "born again", like everyone who is born of the spirit.

The spirit of Elijah was born into John the Baptist, according to the words of Jesus himself. Jesus never said John the Baptist is a "type" of Elijah, he said John the Baptist IS Elijah. Jesus was raised at the foot of Mount Carmel, a short walk away from Elijah's Cave, and from the center of the Nazorean Essene headquarters, in the tiny settlement of Nazareth.

(Still don't see the link?)

Who was said to appear with Jesus before his ascension? Elijah, not an Elijah type figure! John was Elijah, and his appearance with Jesus confirms it.

Without Elijah, the Old Testament prophecy falls apart.

Reincarnation in intrinsic to the Jesus story. It can't be separated.

edit on 10-10-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

You still haven't proved reincarnation. And yes I see clearly how you are trying to link this. Even if I take your point about Jon being Elijah reincarnated you still have the herculean task of proving that Elijah died, back in time, in the first place.

I contend that John is a type, because the real Elijah will be at the second coming as one of the witness who will be killed by the PTB in that day. It would be impossible for him to die twice and resurrected twice. You cant kill the resurrected body, the glorified body.

"it is appointed unto men to die once".

reply to post by Logarock


Death ISN'T necessary for reincarnation. Jesus promised that his followers would NOT taste death. He taught that all those who are "born again" have eternal life. Even before the advent of Jesus, people were being born again, according to Jesus. The soul, like the wind, goes where it wants.

Reincarnation is a spiritual action, not a physical action. The body dies. The body is NOT reborn or resurrected, only the spirit is reborn.