Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

BO XIAN
It's kind of . . . moderately interesting . . .

Christians hereon persistently run into about the

only sanctioned, approved, kosher things to hate on ATS.

The most persistently hated objects on ATS . . . the 2 most often most liberally and fiercely exalted-in kind of

abject HATE

hereon is chronically, tenaciously, persistently directed toward, to

ATS Christians
and
Jesus the Christ.

Hereon we kind of get to hear the same spirit that stirred up the mob 2,000 years ago with

!CRUCIFY HIM!

!CRUCIFY HIM!

!CRUCIFY HIM!

Kind of leaves one with that friendly, warm, fuzzy, back-rubby feeling all over.

LOLOLOL

That's kind of hits the nail on the head. Some things never change. The desire to do away with Jesus as a historical figure amounts to much the same thing yes in the same spirit.

What is so threatening about Jesus who is love personified?

It is funny, glad someone else understands and recognizes the dynamic. God we are so pathetic.

wildtimes
reply to post by Logarock

 

Just to make my point, to me your avatar is spiritual, sort of neo-wiccan, mystical.

Well! That's another thing that "you got right"! Thanks!

I didn't relies until later that most folks found it offensive.

I liked it. And I clearly remember telling you so.

edit on 10/10/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Oh that was you? It was some time back. Forgive me for not remembering considering I had only two compliments about it.

reply to post by Logarock

You may not believe that I am considered liberal with my kids according to the ways of traditional church. That's the way I raised them but not saying I was totally right.

But, we don't have the sort of dysfunction you are referring to around here due to having over religious hell fire parents. I understand why some raised in a hard fundamentalist home and church can wake up one day and find themselves someplace else.

Cool. Then, Logarock, we have found some common ground. That's what these discussions are all about.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

It has been said that the height of mental health and well being is demonstrated by discipline whereby the fundamental tools of discipline, are four.

1) Dedication to Truth
2) Acceptance of Responsibility
3) Delay of Gratification, and
4) Balancing (emotional ie: when to be happy, angry etc.)

Let's have a closer look at that.

1) Dedication to truth.

God's truth is faith. Faith is "firm belief in something for which there is no proof". God's truth is firm belief in something for which you have no proof. I have been told numerous times that the more proof there is of God's existence, the less effective he is. Huh?!

2) Acceptance of responsibility.

God created us, and declares that he and he alone deserves ownership of our souls and rulership of our world. Yet when requested to take responsibility of the dark powers that he and he alone created and can control effortlessly, he refuses. He has every means and every reason to do exactly that which he steadfastly refuses to do. Uh...

3) Delay of gratification.

I'm assuming this means putting the needs and desires of others first. Um, when has God ever done this without first taking into consideration what he has to gain in return? Hmm? Right.

4. Emotional equilibrium.

Need I cite all of the instances where he displayed all the temperament of a spoiled 4 year old? Didn't think so.

In short, I'd have to give God a D. Maybe a D-. And that's for some minimal effort, for which I must give him credit. Not quite enough to earn him a stellar review as God of the Year. Think he might have to relinquish that crown to a younger and more down-to-earth deity (pun intended). Or maybe he can just throw away the crown and come down off his high throne and live among us. You know, because that's what parents do with their kids.

As a person who believes in Jesus and his teachings.

I can certainly understand why people choose not to believe.

The evidence is very slim. It requires blind faith something I have struggled with.

I guess as a 30 year non believer who had his heart changed about Jesus.

I am the last person to try to preach. I can only say I have found great joy in Jesus.

He may not be real. But, the joy I found is real.

I do love the respectful debate.

windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

Its very clear that Elijah is in a state of transfiguration. Taken up alive, in body, to the other realm there to be reserved for his big end time mission and taste death. This is what the scripture teaches whatever I may think about it.

Where's the scripture to back this up? The Bible doesn't specify the fate of Elijah, other than that he will return to pave the way for the messiah, and did so, as John the Baptist.

Where does it say anything about Elijah and the "end times"?

Well it says, as you know, that he was taken up in a chariot of fire.

For the second part, I believe that's what Jesus meaning was, a double meaning, when he said Elijah will come. It was extended to a second meaning, his second return. I also believe that's what the Mt of transfiguration was about. I personally don't believe Moses died when he went up to the mountain but became transfigure. That's why he shows with Elijah on the Mt of transfiguration. Those two will be the last two witnesses that John mentions.

As well Jesus had to be transfigure if for only a moment to fulfill all states and conditions and to fulfill the prophets. He however went on from there to meet his fate at the cross.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I asked that we look at and examine very closely the person of Jesus (Yeheshua) according to the four tools of discipline, and he scores an A+.

I'm not talking about God and man's wrestling match in the OT, however successful it may have been in generating the relevant prophetic framework and foreshadowing by which Jesus came onto the scene.

What was this Jesus person all about - can we see things from his POV and what can we learn from making that attempt?

When I try it on, try him on, it's just awesome, magnificent and immensely beautiful and loving and intelligent and wise. There's nothing vain or cynical, or snarky, or rude or ignorant about him..

He's a perfect model and standard for human mental health and well being, and as to the delay of gratification part, I'm just so glad to have discovered that he also got his and got to have his cake and eat it too.

Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob

reply to post by NewAgeMan



Man I don't know, he spoke just downright mean with those Pharisees. Even when they invited him to dinner. It came after he would have one of those perceiving the evil in their hearts, trying to trap him in questions ect. He just tore them up.

reply to post by whyamIhere

He may not be real. But, the joy I found is real.

Exactly the crux of the matter. You're not in it for the reality, you're in it for the illusion. Even as you acknowledge the illusory aspect, you cling to it because it gives you a sense of significance that nothing else has ever given you. It gives you a place in the world, a position that is eternally and wholly yours. You just can't put a price on a feeling like that. And if it's really true that you'll die and be gone forever...well then, why the hell not? Might as well take advantage.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


So presumptuous, so ignorant.

Logarock
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Man I don't know, he spoke just downright mean with those Pharisees. Even when they invited him to dinner. It came after he would have one of those perceiving the evil in their hearts, trying to trap him in questions ect. He just tore them up.

I like what he did to Simon (a Pharisee) and friends when the prostitute entered, cried on his feet and wiped away her tears with her hair and then anointed his feet with perfume.

Anyone who RE-reads the Gospels (which can be read in one sitting) and looks closely at Jesus cannot help but to fall in love with the guy.

And that to this day he so hardens the hearts of the ignorant and rude, even to the point of breaking (if they're lucky) is just too much.

Jesus rocks!

He was an absolute frick'n GENIUS!

He really gave it to the PTB and an evil empire. Heck he gave it to us ALL and still managed to get the last laugh, while inviting us to join him, not just in the persecution and the sorrow and the necessary suffering of life that is intrinsic to the human condition, but also in the resurrected life, which is the happy life and life as it was meant to be lived and enjoyed. Unfortunately, most Christians only know the half of him and do not know his happy, humorous side, and his joie de vivre.

When understood from the POV of the resurrected life, as grave as the cross may be, we must come to see and recognize that it's like a great joke told by God at the expense of all human folly and ignorance, a joke which to fully get will make a person first groan as in ohhhhhh noooooooo (in acknowledgement of their complicity), and then, through the repentance that evokes, if they hang in there with him and stick with it all the way through to it's final, ultra-rational conclusion - come to see and recognize and experience the hand that wipes away the tears from their eyes even as those tears turn to tears of joy and laughter, even outright hilarity (that we could have been so dumb and clueless) and a final, triumphant celebration as we cross over the bridge (royal arch) with him as it's very keystone, and boldly enter into the resurrected life, which is a boundless freedom of which we had no prior experience.

Oh to be an "untouchable" in Christ and to know the truth that sets us free!

"Love and do as you will."
~ St. Augustine

Never mind. It's not worth the bother.

Heads up

Pro or anti this theory ATS members are expected to treat each other with respect

Civility and decorum are required.

Only warning.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


It's easy to talk trash for no reason. Much easier, in fact, than looking inside yourself and realizing that I have a point. But no one would expect you to be so honest with yourself, would they? You've already demonstrated that. And I wouldn't even say anything except that apparently, I don't deserve any explanation except that I am presumptuous and ignorant. Your words, not mine.

Next time, maybe you could be constructive with your criticism instead of just insulting me for no reason.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


You cannot tell another man his thought process or what's going on in his heart of hearts or take another man's inventory, especially when the assessment is based on assumptions born of an a priori contemptuous bias.

I realize that "Christ is alive in spirit" makes no sense to you, but it's not in your place to tell someone else that it has no intrinsic reality or that they themselves have abandoned their dedication to truth in holding such a belief or faith-based experience.

It's arrogant, ignorant, and rather offensive or rude.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

m You cannot tell another man his thought process or what's going on in his heart of hearts or take another man's inventory, especially when the assessment is based on assumptions born of an a priori contemptuous bias.

If there is nothing outside upon which to base an emotion, then it must come from inside. It's only a matter of understanding human nature to figure out the rest. It's not contempt. I'm not the Christian God. It's disappointment. Disappointment that it would take so little to put us down and keep us down. We're capable of so much more, and we don't need a deity to get there. We need each other.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


We need Christ, the heart of Christ, and then everything will work out.

It is our estrangement from God as the all in all and infinite intelligent spirit of truth and life and love, which is at-cause in all our problems and our dilemma.

If we seek to understand Jesus, and the workings of his mind and heart and soul, why then we come to know our own true selves as we were meant and intended to be and to become as true children of a loving God, as children of light and love.

Making of Christ, an evil, isn't helpful in the least, AI. In fact, it's utterly absurd.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

It is our estrangement from God as the all in all and infinite intelligent spirit of truth and life and love, which is at-cause in all our problems and our dilemma.

I don't think you even know what those words mean. Be honest with yourself. Grab a dictionary and review your lexicon on woo-woo vocabulary.

If we seek to understand Jesus, and the workings of his mind and heart and soul, why then we come to know our own true selves as we were meant and intended to be and to become.

I think you should seek to understand yourself before you even begin to talk about Jesus.

Making of Christ, an evil, isn't helpful in the least, AI. In fact, it's utterly absurd.

Coming from a human discussing infinity as though he understands and comprehends it. You're a bundle of contradictions. It's funny because you don't even realize it. See what I mean about honesty?

please my dear ATS members, read just on of the Gospel's w/ an open heart, read carefully and meditate on Jesus words. one of the four Evangelists Mark, Mathew, John or Luke. I can promise that is easy and simple to read. Go on, open the bible and look, theres not so much to read, if you chose one of the Evangelists.

Do that. Read calmly and try to imagine that Him (Jesus) is talking to you, teaching you, accept Him, as a Father.
Do that in calm and silent place.

Please my friends, at least, try once.

It seems the arguments against Jesus and the Bible are just as ludicrous, if not more, then the ones that support it.