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Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
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reply to post by Logarock
I will not believe it! It's the same thing as you telling me that god is real or a stranger on the street, or my best friend, etc... Even if my mother who i love so much comes back to life screaming god is real, i would say, "i wish i was there to see it and believe it mother."
I will not believe it! It's the same thing as you telling me that god is real or a stranger on the street, or my best friend, etc... Even if my mother who i love so much comes back to life screaming god is real, i would say, "i wish i was there to see it and believe it mother."
reply to post by Logarock
When did I say that there is NOT another world? I never said that. I have NEVER said that. I'm not an atheist. It is YOU who is assuming I am.
It is impossible for us to deny that there is another world.
When did I say that there is NOT another world? I never said that. I have NEVER said that. I'm not an atheist. It is YOU who is assuming I am.
reply to post by boymonkey74
It's the lazy person who writes it all off as "fairy tales" with a self-satisfied, smug, grunt, without ever having investigated deeply with an open mind free from any sort of contempt, prior to investigation.
The amount of ignorance in regards to Jesus seen on the Internet including places like ATS is utterly astounding.
From the POV of one who's investigated, and contemplated these matters, the rantings of the naysayers appear as the whining of children suffering from a strong dose of rebellious teenage angst and nothing more.
Nevertheless I am pleased that the conversation about Jesus continues, may people have the willingness, open-mindedness and the curiosity to try to peer into his mind and heart and recognize in him an absolute master in so many ways.
It has been said that the height of mental health and well being is demonstrated by discipline whereby the fundamental tools of discipline, are four.
1) Dedication to Truth
2) Acceptance of Responsibility
3) Delay of Gratification, and
4) Balancing (emotional ie: when to be happy, angry etc.)
Question: How does Jesus measure up when evaluated and measured by this standard?
It's the lazy person who writes it all off as "fairy tales" with a self-satisfied, smug, grunt, without ever having investigated deeply with an open mind free from any sort of contempt, prior to investigation.
The amount of ignorance in regards to Jesus seen on the Internet including places like ATS is utterly astounding.
From the POV of one who's investigated, and contemplated these matters, the rantings of the naysayers appear as the whining of children suffering from a strong dose of rebellious teenage angst and nothing more.
Nevertheless I am pleased that the conversation about Jesus continues, may people have the willingness, open-mindedness and the curiosity to try to peer into his mind and heart and recognize in him an absolute master in so many ways.
It has been said that the height of mental health and well being is demonstrated by discipline whereby the fundamental tools of discipline, are four.
1) Dedication to Truth
2) Acceptance of Responsibility
3) Delay of Gratification, and
4) Balancing (emotional ie: when to be happy, angry etc.)
Question: How does Jesus measure up when evaluated and measured by this standard?
edit on 10-10-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
wildtimes
No, YOU have the herculean task of proving he DIDN'T DIE, since it is YOU who has claimed that. From scripture. Which is circular and not reliable.
And since you just admitted that everyone dies, well, I'm still waiting for your "scholars" and links to their works - or their names, at least.
edit on 10/10/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
Its very clear that Elijah is in a state of transfiguration. Taken up alive, in body, to the other realm there to be reserved for his big end time mission and taste death. This is what the scripture teaches whatever I may think about it.
reply to post by Logarock
I am aware of what "scripture" teaches. Thanks. I simply don't put much stock in 'scripture'. I'm not one who can simply buy in to the "revealed" bits.
You are trying to use scripture ALONE to substantiate your "beliefs", which are implausible.
That said, what DO you "think about it"? And why are you afraid to doubt it?
This is what the scripture teaches whatever I may think about it.
I am aware of what "scripture" teaches. Thanks. I simply don't put much stock in 'scripture'. I'm not one who can simply buy in to the "revealed" bits.
You are trying to use scripture ALONE to substantiate your "beliefs", which are implausible.
That said, what DO you "think about it"? And why are you afraid to doubt it?
edit on 10/10/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
wildtimes
reply to post by Logarock
It is impossible for us to deny that there is another world.
When did I say that there is NOT another world? I never said that. I have NEVER said that. I'm not an atheist. It is YOU who is assuming I am.
Ok so what are you a shaman or something? And no I can tell by your avatar you are not an atheist.
reply to post by Grimpachi
OR insists that when you have two answers, the simpler of the two is usually the right one. In this case, the easiest answer is that Jesus was a real person as he was mentioned in multiple Jewish and Roman historian's writings. Also, we know that Peter, Paul and John were real people and they also documented stories of the life of the man.
I have no idea why you think a vast conspiracy by a an undetermined number of people that has somehow worked/stayed hidden for thousands of years is the simplest answer....
Some people...
OR insists that when you have two answers, the simpler of the two is usually the right one. In this case, the easiest answer is that Jesus was a real person as he was mentioned in multiple Jewish and Roman historian's writings. Also, we know that Peter, Paul and John were real people and they also documented stories of the life of the man.
I have no idea why you think a vast conspiracy by a an undetermined number of people that has somehow worked/stayed hidden for thousands of years is the simplest answer....
Some people...
wildtimes
reply to post by Logarock
This is what the scripture teaches whatever I may think about it.
I am aware of what "scripture" teaches. Thanks. I simply don't put much stock in 'scripture'. I'm not one who can simply buy in to the "revealed" bits.
You are trying to use scripture ALONE to substantiate your "beliefs", which are implausible.
That said, what DO you "think about it"? And why are you afraid to doubt it?
edit on 10/10/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
I am trying to tell you that I haven't bought in but have been bought in. Yes I am defending scripture though.
reply to post by Logarock
How so? What does my avatar prove beyond I found what I thought was a pretty picture and decided to post it as my avatar for now? It's changed many times. My WORDS are what define me, Log, not my avatar.
By your (recently changed) avatar I can tell ..... what? It used to be a little girl leaning on an enormous bear. Now it's a baseballer pointing at the ref's , erm, private parts.
I don't even know if you're a man or a woman. Can't tell. I suspect you're a woman, but I might be wrong. I AM a woman, just in case you weren't aware. And I revere the feminine aspect of our wondrous universe -- and the things we DON'T KNOW about it -- and which people 2,000 years ago ALSO DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.
And no I can tell by your avatar you are not an atheist.
How so? What does my avatar prove beyond I found what I thought was a pretty picture and decided to post it as my avatar for now? It's changed many times. My WORDS are what define me, Log, not my avatar.
By your (recently changed) avatar I can tell ..... what? It used to be a little girl leaning on an enormous bear. Now it's a baseballer pointing at the ref's , erm, private parts.
I don't even know if you're a man or a woman. Can't tell. I suspect you're a woman, but I might be wrong. I AM a woman, just in case you weren't aware. And I revere the feminine aspect of our wondrous universe -- and the things we DON'T KNOW about it -- and which people 2,000 years ago ALSO DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.
edit on 10/10/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
BO XIAN
It's kind of . . . moderately interesting . . .
Christians hereon persistently run into about the
only sanctioned, approved, kosher things to hate on ATS.
The most persistently hated objects on ATS . . . the 2 most often most liberally and fiercely exalted-in kind of
abject HATE
hereon is chronically, tenaciously, persistently directed toward, to
ATS Christians
and
Jesus the Christ.
Hereon we kind of get to hear the same spirit that stirred up the mob 2,000 years ago with
!CRUCIFY HIM!
!CRUCIFY HIM!
!CRUCIFY HIM!
Kind of leaves one with that friendly, warm, fuzzy, back-rubby feeling all over.
LOLOLOL
If you read a disagreement with your bible and receive feelings of being hated, I think that says something about what your bible is doing to you. I don't think people hate me to the point of death when they disagree with me. Why do you? That theme has been pumped into you your whole life, christian's in the lions den and what not. You've been made into the victim and you accept that you are the victim, but you aren't getting that right now.
The truth is you are facing clear minded people who happen to disagree with your faith, and do not like the way it has impacted parts of our society. We aren't raging lunatics who want your blood, I just think your god makes no sense, and in my personal opinion he seems to have a pretty nasty personality which has a way of turning people against each other. Still my like to dislike ratio is probably the same for christians as any other group. If you are an asshole I'll treat you like one, otherwise our disagreements don't mean that much to me.
edit on 10-10-2013 by mahatche
because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-10-2013 by mahatche because: (no reason given)
Mouse89
reply to post by Logarock
I will not believe it! It's the same thing as you telling me that god is real or a stranger on the street, or my best friend, etc... Even if my mother who i love so much comes back to life screaming god is real, i would say, "i wish i was there to see it and believe it mother."
Just know that not everybody is lying to you. What personal stake or gain do I have for example, in trying to convince you? Its all for you really.
reply to post by Logarock
What?
I'm sorry, could you clarify this for me? You 'have been' bought in? But you 'haven't' bought in?
So, it was against your will?
Are you going to name your scholars and their disagreements, or not?
Are you going to tell us what you are so afraid of if it turns out that Jesus as depicted in 'scripture' was NOT real?
Personally I am on the fence as to whether 'the man called Jesus Christ' actually lived -- but I am NOT on the fence about the tall tales and myths depicted in 'scripture.'
I don't believe them.
I am trying to tell you that I haven't bought in but have been bought in.
What?
I'm sorry, could you clarify this for me? You 'have been' bought in? But you 'haven't' bought in?
So, it was against your will?
Are you going to name your scholars and their disagreements, or not?
Are you going to tell us what you are so afraid of if it turns out that Jesus as depicted in 'scripture' was NOT real?
Personally I am on the fence as to whether 'the man called Jesus Christ' actually lived -- but I am NOT on the fence about the tall tales and myths depicted in 'scripture.'
I don't believe them.
reply to post by Logarock
Where's the scripture to back this up? The Bible doesn't specify the fate of Elijah, other than that he will return to pave the way for the messiah, and did so, as John the Baptist.
Where does it say anything about Elijah and the "end times"?
Its very clear that Elijah is in a state of transfiguration. Taken up alive, in body, to the other realm there to be reserved for his big end time mission and taste death. This is what the scripture teaches whatever I may think about it.
Where's the scripture to back this up? The Bible doesn't specify the fate of Elijah, other than that he will return to pave the way for the messiah, and did so, as John the Baptist.
Where does it say anything about Elijah and the "end times"?
I'm an atheist and personally doubt the existence of jesus. However if this guys theory is that since it would have benefited the romans to have a
peaceful messiah show up. Then they must have created one, is too thin even for a nonreligious mind.
Plus there are ALOT of parallels between satanic forces and the roman empire found in the bible. Such as Nero being an anagram for 666. Why would they make themselves the devil if they wanted to relax the population?
That said some of the before mentioned historians were known exaggerators, and that's putting it nicely.
josephus and sutonius all wrote fantastical historical accounts as well. So its strange to say that they were historically accurate on the one story they have about your God. So undeniably the existence of jesus isn't like a lock.
Plus there are ALOT of parallels between satanic forces and the roman empire found in the bible. Such as Nero being an anagram for 666. Why would they make themselves the devil if they wanted to relax the population?
That said some of the before mentioned historians were known exaggerators, and that's putting it nicely.
josephus and sutonius all wrote fantastical historical accounts as well. So its strange to say that they were historically accurate on the one story they have about your God. So undeniably the existence of jesus isn't like a lock.
reply to post by Logarock
Well, I'm certainly not "lying" to anyone.
What personal stake or gain do I have in convincing people? TO STOP INDOCTRINATING THEIR CHILDREN INTO FEAR OF HELLFIRE AND ETERNAL JUDGMENT. It's BAD for little kids. It's bad.
Is it time for "Welcome to This World" again? I think you've seen it before. I KNOW I posted it before.
Would you like me to present it? It really sums up my approach to all this doom/gloom/condemnation/sinner stuff.
Just know that not everybody is lying to you. What personal stake or gain do I have for example, in trying to convince you? Its all for you really.
Well, I'm certainly not "lying" to anyone.
What personal stake or gain do I have in convincing people? TO STOP INDOCTRINATING THEIR CHILDREN INTO FEAR OF HELLFIRE AND ETERNAL JUDGMENT. It's BAD for little kids. It's bad.
Is it time for "Welcome to This World" again? I think you've seen it before. I KNOW I posted it before.
Would you like me to present it? It really sums up my approach to all this doom/gloom/condemnation/sinner stuff.
DeadSeraph
reply to post by ltheghost
Here we go again with Joseph Atwill's nonsense. I have spent far too much time looking into his claims and debunking them on ATS, and I have no interest in doing so again. What I have discovered is concrete proof that his claims are completely bogus, but no amount of evidence was good enough for his adherents, and they basically just plugged their ears and screamed as loud as they could no matter which facts were presented to them that effectively dismantled their claims.
Atwill is a snake oil salesman and nothing more. His goal is to sell books, not discuss the truth. All of his claims fall apart under the light of history (history which anyone can research if they are so inclined). The simple fact of the matter is that history indicates that Christ was a real person, and that people willingly went to their deaths in defence of their belief in Him. Nothing Atwill is claiming is "new". All of his claims have already been discussed in his books as well as on threads here at ATS, and I see nothing in the article that indicates he has any "new evidence". Just more of his tired claims that the romans invented Christianity because he says so.
History, logic, and reason all stand opposed to Joseph Atwill and his claims, and the only way it is possible to agree with his conclusions is to abandon all three in favor of Atwill's version of events. This is the textbook definition of confirmation bias, because a person has to want Jesus to be a fable to conclude that Atwill is anything other than a joke. He has basically completely reinvented history to suit his personal agenda. People capable of critical thinking would dismiss him outright because of this, but because he attacks religion people buy his books and parrot his nonsense. If a scientist did this, he'd be out of work and in need of a career change.
Sources please. And Facts. Not even a link to your "debunking on ATS" threads. Come on give us a break, those that haven't heard of Atwill's work. Why is 'his analysis' of the facts and less credible then others?
I'd like to look into this a bit more but blanket "I know" statements without references in support don't help anyone.
wildtimes
reply to post by Logarock
And no I can tell by your avatar you are not an atheist.
How so? What does my avatar prove beyond I found what I thought was a pretty picture and decided to post it as my avatar for now? It's changed many times. My WORDS are what define me, Log, not my avatar.
By your (recently changed) avatar I can tell ..... what? It used to be a little girl leaning on an enormous bear. Now it's a baseballer pointing at the ref's , erm, private parts.
I don't even know if you're a man or a woman. Can't tell. I suspect you're a woman, but I might be wrong. I AM a woman, just in case you weren't aware. And I revere the feminine aspect of our wondrous universe -- and the things we DON'T KNOW about it -- and also which people 2,000 years ago DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.
Well I had to change my old avatar because it did not communicate my intent which was of a day coming when little children could play on the adders nest without fear and the lamb will lay down with the lion ect. I didn't relies until later that most folks found it offensive.
And my new avatar is about challenging authority and that dichotomy. The batter is pointing at the outside strike zone challenging the call. lol
Just to make my point, to me your avatar is spiritual, sort of neo-wiccan, mystical.
Jesus is just a metaphor for the sun (son). All our religions are based on astrology, the heavens, then we brought it down to Earth and made it seem
as though these characters really existed on Earth, when they never did. The rulers know this, and they use these false man made religions to control
us. All of the people in the Bible are invented, wise man Sol-o-mon (sun and moon), Abram (ram, Aries zodiac), Jesus - 12 disciples, "light unto the
world...", (sun - 12 signs of zodiac), etc.
edit on 10-10-2013 by OMsk3ptic because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Logarock
Well! That's another thing that "you got right"! Thanks!
I liked it. And I clearly remember telling you so.
Just to make my point, to me your avatar is spiritual, sort of neo-wiccan, mystical.
Well! That's another thing that "you got right"! Thanks!
I didn't relies until later that most folks found it offensive.
I liked it. And I clearly remember telling you so.
edit on 10/10/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
wildtimes
reply to post by Logarock
Just know that not everybody is lying to you. What personal stake or gain do I have for example, in trying to convince you? Its all for you really.
Well, I'm certainly not "lying" to anyone.
What personal stake or gain do I have in convincing people? TO STOP INDOCTRINATING THEIR CHILDREN INTO FEAR OF HELLFIRE AND ETERNAL JUDGMENT. It's BAD for little kids. It's bad.
Is it time for "Welcome to This World" again? I think you've seen it before. I KNOW I posted it before.
Would you like me to present it? It really sums up my approach to all this doom/gloom/condemnation/sinner stuff.
You may not believe that I am considered liberal with my kids according to the ways of traditional church. That's the way I raised them but not saying I was totally right. But, we don't have the sort of dysfunction you are referring to around here due to having over religious hell fire parents. I understand why some raised in a hard fundamentalist home and church can wake up one day and find themselves someplace else.
In my case I didn't chose to toss the baby out with the bathwater over issues and some certainly bad enough. I always knew it was true, the word, even if assholes had gotten ahold of it.