Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

reply to post by boymonkey74


I'm going to assume you're kidding.

Habit4ming
I've shared this before, but feel the need to do so again:

The first words out of my 4-year-old daughter's mouth when able to talk after heart surgery was: "Mommy, Jesus came and held my hand".

No one will ever convince me that Jesus does not exist.

Are you a religious family? Does she know about Jesus?
Was she told Jesus will watch over you?
Etc etc.
Some info would be needed to understand and explain this.

But i'm sure you don't want that, it's better that Jesus exists right?

As a child I wholeheartedly believed in Jesus and Christianity, Jesus being my role model and hero. I soon realised I was different from the other kids because their role model appeared more satan based.

I questioned the things I was taught in Church and Sunday School from about age 10, the answers I got weren't fulfilling, they just created more questions, about the nature of the belief system, the possibility that the bible was perhaps manipulated or created from a fictional story, and most poignantly,I questioned the belief of those given the position of religious leaders / teachers, the clergy. They squirmed when questioned, so naturally I distrusted their answers and their belief in the sermons and teachings they were preaching.

I decided to study lots of other religions since a teenager and now I realise that a lot of religions are based on the exact same principles, which mostly lead back to Ancient Egyptian / Babylonian nature observation based religions.

I also tied my religious studies with my historical studies and it came to light that power and control are probably the driving factors behind the majority of religions. Self proclaimed representatives of 'God /s' controlling the population's beliefs and behaviour being the modus operandi.

That said, I still hold an intuitive inclination that there is 'something' that is an absolute power, be it an energy or force or even something of a dimensional nature that humanity cannot quite comprehend yet, the truth of this is something I await.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this research is true or based on fact. I have always wondered if Jesus was based on something true or more likely based on a real person with real power that was hidden and used by the Roman powers of the day because they didn't want such a being having more power than they did. I also wondered if a fake Jesus, an ordinary guy was made out as 'spectacular' and powerful as a ruse of gaining power and control whilst denying the population access to the real 'Jesus'.

History has been written, it is manipulated, the text we read is all chosen text. People should read more about the truth, about how things really were and are.

For a real insight into how things were at the time of early Christianity I recommend the movie Agora it received mixed reviews and isn't entirely historically accurate, however Hypatia was real and the movie is based on a true story.

stargatetravels

Habit4ming
I've shared this before, but feel the need to do so again:
The first words out of my 4-year-old daughter's mouth when able to talk after heart surgery was: "Mommy, Jesus came and held my hand".
No one will ever convince me that Jesus does not exist.

[...]
Some info would be needed to understand and explain this.[...]

It's too bad the kid met Jesus but couldn't get his real name right.

Dr. Gary Habermas Gives Some Brief Examples of Secular Sources For Jesus Christ

texastig


Historians looks for early sources. Christianity has them. There is no other
ancient documents that have close sources like the New Testament does.
Don't forget Saul of Tarsus. He was a contemporary of Jesus and he was
approving of killing Christians.
That is enemy attestation and Historians use that also for data.
So Saul became Paul the Apostle and within
25 years after Jesus resurrection Paul wrote his first epistle. He named
eyewitnesses, met with the other Apostles and an early creed came out
months after Jesus resurrection that Paul talks about in 1 Cor 15 and that is
the goldmine for Historians.

Alexander the Great was written about 400 years after he died.
I'd rather trust information close to the source because there will be no
time for myths and fables to pop up.

You just can't be serious?!

Do you even know when Alexander the great lived, who and where are records about him? Not simple records after the fact, but made at the time of his conquests. From Egyptian hieroglyphs to Babylonian writings about Alexander the great - all documented.

Did you miss history classes?

reply to post by theabsolutetruth

That said, I still hold an intuitive inclination that there is 'something' that is an absolute power, be it an energy or force or even something of a dimensional nature that humanity cannot quite comprehend yet, the truth of this is something I await.

Awareness. Awareness, in and of itself, is absolute power. If you can manipulate the threads of awareness, you can manipulate what people experience and how they interpret it. You can manipulate what they know and how the feel about it. You can manipulate who they are by manipulating their awareness by manipulation how much and what they are aware of. You think it can't be done? It's being done all the time. But they don't have perfect control because they haven't yet learned how to take perfect control without our realizing.

But if you want an example, just read 1984. That's an example of how they made the people want to be perfectly controlled. They established absolute power by convincing the people to give it to them. You haven't grasped the truth of it yet, even after I told you and showed you where to find it. But someday, you will begin to realize how much our awareness has been tugged and pulled and tucked and stretched and crimped every minute of every day. Chances are, you'll probably never know all of it - none of us will - but you'll begin to see, nonetheless. Whether we're aware of it or not, whether those doing the tugging and pulling are aware of it, it is happening. It is not a god. It is not a supernatural power. It is the razor-edge of tactical genius, extraordinary comprehension of how the mind works, and a studied mastery of the essence of human nature, perhaps hundreds of thousands of years in the making. Or perhaps utterly nonexistent at this point. It is the ability to think around corners and affect what is there before you yourself actually arrive in person. It is chess of the mind and the heart. Ever heard of magic? Of course you have. There's a special little trick in there called "redirection". As Now You See Me so eloquently phrased it, it is the technique of making the audience look in one place while the real trick is happening somewhere else. Thinking around corners. Being seven steps ahead at all times. Anticipating what they will think and feel and how they will react. And being prepared for it every inch of the way. Using their thoughts and emotions and actions without them realizing it. Making them second guess what they're doing and thinking. And still knowing what they will do and think during and after they second guess themselves. And by the time they're done, you're right behind them. Knowing what they will do next. And waiting for it. Ready. Ready for the next twitch of the strings, ready to make them dance, ready to convince them they are acting on their own. But in reality, they do nothing without your explicit consent. They know nothing without your explicit consent, because you know where they will look and what they will ask and what they will see, and you've already put it all there for them. You know what they will hear and find, because you wanted them to hear and find it. And if you told them...they would never believe it. But you would know the truth.

That is absolute power. The question is, has it been realized? And if so, who has it?

reply to post by texastig


From beginning he is just proving OP's topic - there are about dozens sources about Jesus about 100-150 years AFTER he supposedly lived.

Just fabrication, as OP's post summed it up.

Great find!



I am glad we agree at least on that... now, where do you like to start studying about Alexander? Should we start with Egyptian hieroglyphs or with Babylonian writings? Or perhaps with statues of Alexander made while he was alive? Do you know famous person that was his teacher? (it might shock you that we even know he had a teacher)

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The 'absolute power' I believe is a possibility is something that is greater than all the manipulation of humanity, it is greater than any humanity. It is based on my experiences. I have experienced a LOT of things that have given me this belief, and I have a logical mind, I always look to rational explanations first, but sometimes things happen that are WAY BEYOND that which is taught as reality.

You see that's the thing, we are taught that everything is LIMITS, your post is an example of this adherence to limits that are the constructs of those that are manipulating society, the likes of which created the text that is taught as history.

There is every possibility that there are as yet UNREVEALED POWERS in the Universe and on Earth that humanity EXPERIENCES but cannot properly explain or comprehend due to having manipulated belief systems and psychologically controlled minds.

I'm sure this will get bashed but here it is. Does anyone miss out on the fact that Jesus and (Christ) are actually two separate things? Yaheshua/Joshua/Jesus. Was the man. In this Garden (Earth) he rose above the rest in his actions and morals. He realizes at one point that he is more in tune with his world and that there are certain truths that are blatantly obvious. He comes into contact with the Christ Spirit. This is when the full on miracles begin. This is when stories that everyone perceives to be mularky begin to take place. This same spirit. Is available to every single human. If you don't understand the dichotomy of Good/Evil and how and why some form of intelligence MUST exist. Then you are stating in a reckless manner. That Humans are the creators of the entire universe and we have done such a fine job we cannot remember how we have gotten here. Or on top of that.. look at what we have done. Yes. We have evolved from nothing into apes into humans. Hmm once again.. we are the creators of the universe. We have been fighting this whole time. Or wait..when did our consciousness begin? When did we begin to walk vertical? Oh that's right. They couldn't keep track of stuff back then. Because one night a baboon and a gorilla mated and 9 months later a baby boy humanoid was born. Trust me. I know. It is difficult to accept how real it is once you sense it, see it or feel it. Feeling it will literally recreate you. It will also bring about fundamental changes in your life that often lead to better places if you follow. For some this is never an issue and the concept of what is at hand is not the concern here.

Yaheshua/Joshua/Jesus (In Translation) Salvation

yeshuah
In Hebrew:
Yeshu’ah. [yeshuat- construct form]
Noun feminine. Salvation; Deliverance. State of being made free from distress.
References: Exo. 15:2; Ps. 119:155; Isa. 26:1; 49:8; 52:7; 59:17; 60:18; Hab. 3:8.

This spirit. Is real. If most of you look around the world and think it is screwed up consider how this spirit.. Can bring everyone together and tear everyone apart. Understand what the concept of Body of Christ means and you will realize that what our founders said about religion and it between a man and his god.. you will realize why this is so critical and why Yeshu'ah is not only real. But he is the key to all of our problems.

We all see that religion has plagued just about every conflict of mankind in one way or another.
The reason being. In my understanding. Is that we all to a degree believe in "something" Whether it be God, I AM, Elohim, Allah, (Arm-Leg-Leg-Arm-Head=Body) Yahweh or Jehovah or whatever you prefer to call God. That is between YOU and HIM. Conversely it can also be that you believe in nothing. Which is also fine. (there are two lines to the road..both going different directions out of "choice")
There is no trouble with those who dissent because the road they travel is far and wide. Because in beliefs as in life it is much easier to live as if there is nothing greater than the sum of your human counterparts that could ever judge your actions. (This is AGAIN.. a choice.. not necessarily wrong OR right. It is dependent upon how you see the world.) There are people who are certain that something exists that is omnipotent and always aware. Just as there is the Father-Son-Holy Spirit we also have Space-Matter-Time. (Someone I believe posted this a while back and it is an incredible description)

You wouldn't say of Outer Space (as we know it) that it is Part Space. Part Matter and Part Time. IT IS a TRINITY.
It is.. All Space. All Matter. All the time. Space is invisible and Omnipotent and Omnipresent. Matter is what you can see and interpret.. what is REAL. While Time gives you the knowledge, wisdom and understanding to interpret your existence.
This type of God. I believe is what is trying to be explained.
Thus Christ-While speaking through Yahesh'ua-Joshua-Jesus - Informs us that no one, no person has ever seen the father but the son. He is the son. Only if you believe in the son can you believe in the father. If you deny the son you deny the father, if you deny the father you deny your own existence. (something to that effect) This "Father" is our big bang, singularity, intelligent being. The Christ spirit brings salvation - The deliverer- The savior..
We should want someone who is like Yahesh'ua/Joshua/Jesus in this world filled with and ACCURATELY teaching the spirit of CHRIST. This instructs us that accept Christ. (THE SPIRIT) And you can choose where you go from there. This spirit.. is a SPIRIT of GOD. There are THREE key spirits.

If it's all a lie. It has to be based on a true story.To deny the existence of things when we have yet to get a human being beyond the Moon in a Universe so GRAND and of possible multiverses all with meaning and purpose. It makes the whole seem much greater. Ignorance is often the blindness of the soul.

It is a common sentence that Knowledge is power; but who hath duly considered or set forth the power of Ignorance? Knowledge slowly builds up what Ignorance in an hour pulls down. Knowledge, through patient and frugal centuries, enlarges discovery and makes record of it; Ignorance, wanting its day's dinner, lights a fire with the record, and gives a flavour to its one roast with the burnt souls of many generations.

GEORGE ELIOT, Daniel Deronda

For most of our history. We have been incredibly quick to forget what those before us had worked to obtain. Some of our founders believed in a similar principal. Christ says in: John 15:16.. As You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

We are chosen. Some of us hear the call and answer, while others of us turn away. In a world where the creation of which is in doubt. They are handing us a blueprint on how to bring into our creation. The laws of the creation itself.
Yet we still deny. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is strength.-George Orwell

Go get em. Namaste to all no matter what side of the road you are on. If we respect each other as fellow humans. We can slowly begin to see the world as it is meant to be. (This is roughly 3-500 years away without divine intervention of some sorts.)
Real "Christians" are as rare as Lions and Tigers in the sea. Self appointing is blasphemous.
If you're touched by the spirit in either direction. You may not see eye to eye on the "Creator" but you have both been tapped on the shoulder and made aware of the "common sense"

James 1: 22-25
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

Understanding Christ is the key to it all. This messiah or salvation that Yehesh'ua was describing for us. is FREE OF CHARGE. OPEN TO ALL. WIPES AWAY ALL THE OLD.

:Believing in Christ (Also believing in your own innate ability to think for yourself) Is like fans of sports teams. They may all disagree on what is right or wrong. Trash them all and realize that.. THEY DO SEE EYE TO EYE ON ONE THING!! Their love of that team in their own way.

reply to post by ltheghost

I really do feel for....salman rushdie ....but *#* it.....

Here's some Deep FOOD FOR THOUGHT.. for all those religious Pushers out there.

What if GOD was just a Intergalactic/Dimensional traveler that wanted to wipe out mankind (when he 1st arrived at planet earth...) and his Best Angel (Soldier) rebelled against him, This does go a long way to explain the Banishment ,As it would certainly explain why religion has so much to answer for. Wars, Kiddy Fiddlers, Plagues, Disease etc...... The Bible tells us It was GOD that sent these NOT the devil.. and even if he did create Man - it was for the purpose of having a DUMB PET not an Intellectual thinker, For that We have the DEVIL to thank...

So if you go to Church, Give thanks to one that made you a Thinker. not the one trying to wipe you out...

Too ADD
"I say If god does exist, he better be wearing clean Underwear when I meet him, I don't want to dirty my Shoes while I'm Kicking him in the ASS"

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


I can imagine no greater power than the manipulation of how we live our lives. If we are manipulated into crafting our destiny precisely as another has determined it without ever being aware of their role or influence, believing all the while that it was always our decision when in fact it was always theirs...that is the greatest power I can imagine. That is the perfect loss of freedom. A loss that is not a loss. A freedom that is not a freedom. The greatest and darkest power I can possibly imagine.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth

That said, I still hold an intuitive inclination that there is 'something' that is an absolute power, be it an energy or force or even something of a dimensional nature that humanity cannot quite comprehend yet, the truth of this is something I await.

Great post, I starred you. Did you ever consider that this greater power that we can't quite comprehend yet is the universe around us and within us? The universe and the forces that drive it are this absolute power in my opinion, and we can't quite comprehend it yet, if ever.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I believe this 'absolute power' is far beyond that of humanity. The experiences to which I refer were not created by humanity, they weren't mind manipulations, they were / are beyond the perceived reality that is taught.

When the known science that is revealed and taught is constantly evolving and more revelations as to the nature of the Universe are revealed, it becomes more and more plausible that there are UNIVERSAL FORCES that influence humanity that are yet to be truly revealed. Humanity is yet to truly comprehend such forces.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by theabsolutetruth

 

That said, I still hold an intuitive inclination that there is 'something' that is an absolute power, be it an energy or force or even something of a dimensional nature that humanity cannot quite comprehend yet, the truth of this is something I await.

Great post, I starred you. Did you ever consider that this greater power that we can't quite comprehend yet is the universe around us and within us? The universe and the forces that drive it are this absolute power in my opinion, and we can't quite comprehend it yet, if ever.

Thank you.

Yes, probably, this 'absolute power' is of the Universe, and omnipotent in all the Universe.

reply to post by boymonkey74

I don't think it really matters If he existed really he did have a good message which has been twisted by the Religious powers.

Every denomination of Christianity can be sourced to the Holy Bible. If you're looking for the real agent which has twisted the spiritual, look no further than the Bible itself.

The Bible should read as any other holy book.

The Bible should be read as any other book. Period. There's nothing more or less "holy" about the Bible than, say, Dan Simmon's "The Rise of Endymion." In fact, I might argue that there are better ethical, spiritual, and philosophic principals espoused in Simmon's work than in the Bible.

"Treat people how you want to be treated"

It shouldn't take a Bible, Messiah, or spiritual school of thought for the truth of this sentiment to be understood. To be ethical does not require spirituality, and attaining a moral compass does not require religion.

The end....but that wouldn't make priests, rabbis ect money would it?

If you're religious/spiritual, and have faith in an omnipotent/omniscient deity, then you shouldn't need money. God will provide for all that you could ever need.

All the rest is not needed and has just held humanity back, Image how far advanced we would be If the dark ages was replaced with the age of reason.

First off, there were no Dark Ages, and the anti-science campaign didn't simply end with the Age of Enlightenment, but continues to this very day. None-the-less, I agree. Religion does hold back the advancement of science whenever it infiltrates politics.

Faith is a personal journey. Keep it to yourself, and let the rest of the world move forward with itself.

~ Wandering Scribe

whyamIhere
C'mon man.

Jesus is the most documented person in History.

You can question his story.....but he certainly wasn't made up.

Do you have a citation for that?

I've heard from several sources that Jesus was an amalgomation of several different messiah figures of the age. There were many of that type back then. And it actually makes sense that if he was an amalgamation of different personalities that he was made up, perhaps by the Romans.

They certainly used the religion to gain quite a bit of power.

It's definitely not true that he's the most documented person ever. I would say anyone from Julius Caesar to Hilter is probably more well documented.

Maybe not the best citation but Penn and Teller's Bull# had a decent run down of the possible multiple identities of Jesus:

www.youtube.com...

SuperFrog
reply to post by texastig

 

From beginning he is just proving OP's topic - there are about dozens sources about Jesus about 100-150 years AFTER he supposedly lived.

Just fabrication, as OP's post summed it up.

Great find!

I am glad we agree at least on that... now, where do you like to start studying about Alexander? Should we start with Egyptian hieroglyphs or with Babylonian writings? Or perhaps with statues of Alexander made while he was alive? Do you know famous person that was his teacher? (it might shock you that we even know he had a teacher)

edit on 9-10-2013 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

That simply isn't accurate. There is written testimony from those who were witnesses to Christ's ministry in the form of the gospels, and corroborating secular sources outside of the bible written within 100 years of his crucifixion.

Either way, if you wish to fly in the face of accepted ancient history, be my guest. It doesn't make Atwill's claims that the NT was authored by the romans in some giant conspiracy any more credible. If you want to take a mythicist approach to the subject, there are far better ways to do it then espousing the outlandish claims of Joseph Atwill. None of you have provided any credible evidence that proves him right (and I have provided evidence that he is wrong), and as usual, most of you have completely dodged the real issue here, which are Atwill's claims that "new evidence" has come to light that proves the Romans authored the NT. There is NO new evidence. Just Atwill's new book.

I called the response to this thread in my very first reply, and it has played out that way to a T.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


I'm going to preface this by stating that I do have some kind of belief in extra-sensory / extra-dimensional existence. Just so you don't think I'm some kind of non-believing atheist, or something.

I'm interested in your stance on these "Universal Powers" that you've mentioned a handful of times. And your experiences, but, you know, only if you're comfortable sharing them.

I feel like you're missing part of how far science has come, and just how much Man understands about the Universe and our place in it. I'm not necessarily espousing that we "know everything," but we are hardly infantile in our understanding.

We understand the composition of matter, we have some very good theories on how reality first came to be, we know how planets formed, how stars formed, how human life evolved. We understand the four principal forces which govern reality and cause all manner of existence to operate according to the laws which we've discovered to be true. We know (fairly well) how dimensions break down, how time and space interact, and even have some solid hypotheses concerning the quantum nature of everything.

Where exactly are these "Universal Powers" operating from?
What exactly is there technique for interacting with reality?

When you realize that our reality is bound to the observable laws/theories that we have discovered, it becomes increasingly difficult for something to exist outside of those laws, but still be able to effect things within them. At some point these "Universal Powers" must descend into our physical reality if they have any desire to alter it. Otherwise, none of Newtonian physics would be applicable in our universe. Yet, anywhere you look you can see reality adhering to the laws of physics.

I'm just curious on your thoughts about the above really.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by DeadSeraph



You are mixing ancient history and mythology...

History - there might be someone we today refer as Jesus, but most likely as deity of earlier religions 'reformed' for new monotheistic religion. We can trace its roots in more then one religion, and this has been already pointed out in this and similar threats times after times.

There is no single evidence, historical, that Jesus existed. Especially, not kind that was pictured in frescoes during Renaissance period. Even if he existed, if I remember correctly, scientist came as what he might have look like. (remember rage from religious circles about this back 5-10 years ago )

Let me ask you a question: Does Turin Shroud depicts Jesus?

It is proven HOAX - yet million 'believers' still go just for a chance to see it... All believe it is Jesus face they see... just because it suits them. Think, this was done about 500-600 years ago, what kind of mythology was made 2000 years ago.

Please note, I did not said there is dozen written stories about Jesus from 100-150 years AFTER Jesus. It was Dr. Gary Habermas who said that - in post by texastig. In my option that is what we expect for reinvented folklore story, as suggested by OP.

Wonder if any of you guys have ever played broken telephone as kid... do you find it amazing what original and end word sometimes are?


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