Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

Turn the other cheek and love your enemy; sounds like something an army would promote to weaken their enemies and stop resistance.

The lord is a mab of war, vengeance is the lord's sounds way different than "god is love" and "mercy triumphs over judgme nt"

There are many parallek s betwern the fabricated lifeof jesus christ (the gospeks) and horus

reply to post by SuperFrog

I must not have conveyed my thought correctly. I'm not discrediting him for trying to make money. I'm discrediting him for not seeking and obtaining a peer review first. If his peers confirm his findings then there might be something here. I'm not at his level of knowledge in his field so I must rely on his peers.

reply to post by wildtimes

it DOES have a "butt-load" of credible, scholarly reference material showing how Christianity is a syncretic religion based on older ones....

Some sites have VERY worthwhile links embedded to other texts and sites. Almost ALL of the older works by the "Age of Enlightenment" and "Age of Reason" authors are available to read online.

You know what, WT? I'm going to do both you and a I a favour -- I haven't written one of my "Christian Heresy" threads in a long time, but I'm going to put one together on this "16 Crucified Saviours" / "All religions are based on previous myths" bit -- using the actual texts of the religions in question (at least as well as I can track them down.)

A favour to you, because hopefully you'll find it interesting and can provide some awesome input, a favour to me because it will give me one thread to link back to when people bring up Horus/Krishna/Mythra/whatever and claim Jesus is just a recycled myth.

It'll take some time, but keep your eyes open

reply to post by adjensen


Will do, dale!!!
:thumb up:

Good idea! Meanwhile, I might put together a "hell is a myth" thread.

usertwelve
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

I must not have conveyed my thought correctly. I'm not discrediting him for trying to make money. I'm discrediting him for not seeking and obtaining a peer review first. If his peers confirm his findings then there might be something here. I'm not at his level of knowledge in his field so I must rely on his peers.

Don't be silly -- Atwill isn't a scholar, writing academic papers, he writes sensationalized books for a gullible public.

You might as well ask for Chariots of the Gods and other ancient astronaut fare to be peer reviewed.

kdyam
reply to post by ltheghost

 

I wouldn't be surprised. Like most authors of fictitious literature their characters are purely invented to drive the experience. The bible is a work of fiction so I would assume that Jesus was invented as well. I do believe in a supreme being, just not in the way that a work of fiction depicts him in.

It is not a work of fiction. Archaeology proves it, history proves it and prophecy proves it. Jesus is real as any other ancient person such as Alexander the Great, Caesar, Nero, etc...
Any Historical Scholar would tell you that your wrong.

whyamIhere
C'mon man.

Jesus is the most documented person in History.

You can question his story.....but he certainly wasn't made up.

Bwaaahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!

Whaaaat???

There's so little evidence for Jesus and ZERO first hand evidence and ZERO second hand evidence.
He was soooo important that literally NOBODY wrote about him at the time.

reply to post by ltheghost


Just read it and think it is utter nonsense, the romans were no strangers to propeganda but of the type that glorified the emperor and any imperial roman plot along these lines would have painted the emperor as the messiah and as there is no such evidence this is utter nonsense of the most laughable kind.

This is far more interesting, a fragment of the gospel of mark dating from the 1st century AD.
www.wnd.com...

Besides the romans wanted to convert the temple to worship the imperial cult among other thing's as they realised that was the centre of Judaean belief and had already installed a puppet sanhedrin and an arab as puppet ruler so why would they bother.

adjensen
Don't be silly -- Atwill isn't a scholar, writing academic papers, he writes sensationalized books for a gullible public.

You might as well ask for Chariots of the Gods and other ancient astronaut fare to be peer reviewed.

Silly are only those believing that world is 6.5K years old, that all fairy tales from bible did really happen, that believe in virgin birth, big flood, world being made in 6 days etc...

Chariots of the Gods are less fiction then Bible, in my humble opinion.

texastig
It is not a work of fiction. Archaeology proves it, history proves it and prophecy proves it. Jesus is real as any other ancient person such as Alexander the Great, Caesar, Nero, etc...
Any Historical Scholar would tell you that your wrong.

Nop, without evidence your statement is just false... We have historical documents about Alexander, Caesar, Nero... but none about Jesus. Bible is not historical book. Get over it... or accept that world was made in 6 days and that women are made from Adam's rib, and he is our great, great.... grandpa... Do you sound silly a bit here?

reply to post by stargatetravels


Not to mention that there are no currently existent documents proven to be written in Jesus' own hand. Everyone was so eager to write about him 100+ years after the fact, but he never thought it reasonable or necessary to write anything down himself? Curiouser and curiouser...

danielsil18
Jesus THE MOST documented person in History?
Who taught you this lie?

Jesus is the most documented person of Ancient History.

TKDRL
That is quite laughable...... Most documented person in history? Maybe if you count each bible ever printed as a different account of events......

He is the most documented person in Ancient History.

reply to post by texastig


Dear, you need to read the entire thread. Or, if you have the time, the entire forum.
No. Jesus is NOT the most "documented" person of (or in) ancient history.

Bisman
while I do believe Jesus existed. I also know he is incredibly undocumented...
ghere is so little information about him. and it ALL comes from the bible. a sourse that on its own, can't really be trusted to cite history.

He is the most documented person of Ancient History.

reply to post by texastig


No, he isn't. Either cite your sources, or stop spamming the thread.
He IS NOT the most documented person in, or of, ancient history. There may be more Bibles than any printed book in history, but that DOES NOT COUNT AS DOCUMENTATION.

Please.

texastig

Bisman
while I do believe Jesus existed. I also know he is incredibly undocumented...
ghere is so little information about him. and it ALL comes from the bible. a sourse that on its own, can't really be trusted to cite history.

He is the most documented person of Ancient History.

Actually I do NOT think that Jesus is "the most documented person of Ancient History". I personally do think that Jesus indeed lived, but that all the stories about him are tales/fiction and deliberately exaggerated.

"Documented" would mean that we have verifiable and true facts. But we don't. What we have are mystical and religious texts about him which COULD have been written for whatever reason and where we do not know about how true those stories are.

Jesus, as a spiritual figure (mind you: I choose to say SPIRITUAL because I like this MUCH better than the word "religious") certainly gained a lot of followers. WHAT about those stories people told about Jesus throughout the centuries are TRUE - what stories are NOT true - what was added later, what was erased later? Did Jesus, the spiritual person REALLY perform miracles or was this only told later by the supporters who wrote it down as "truth"?

THIS WAS 2000 YEARS AGO at a time where people were not educated whatsoever.

What of Jesus' teachings, the TRUE teachings and his message(s)...has really survived in scriptures...what was simply added later and what was edited by the powers so it fit THEIR agenda? Do you really think that current CHURCH does truly reflect the message of Jesus? I don't.

I don't see Jesus as a person who walked earth and told people to join a religious group with priests and pray in cold and dusty "churches" to find god. I think Jesus preached EXACTLY the opposite.

I think Jesus was "anti establishment" and that he had no interest that a powerful church will be founded, in fact I think that Church today (to the most part) teaches the exact opposite of what Jesus actually taught. Therefore I have reason to believe that MOST "documents" about Jesus we can read today are false.

reply to post by texastig



I used to work with a guy named Jesus. Funny thing about names is that lots of people have them. People in stories have names as well... I am sure that there were many people named Jesus back in the day, just as there are in current times. We know Alexander the great was real because there is real evidence of it, we have proof of him existing through his own written hand, historical exploits (written by real historians) and actual artifacts. So far I haven't seen anything or heard of anything that Jesus had written... only read about him in books.. and sometimes see pieces of the cross he was crucified on for sale at roadside attractions. The bible is a book of fiction written by men, there is more factual evidence in the Illiad than there is in the bible. Like I have said before.. I do believe that there is a supreme being of some sort but not as it is presented in the bible. A lot of people use faith as a crutch, other people use it as a means of easing guilt for unethical actions they may have committed, and some people are actually truly genuine individuals who like the idea of a creator who watches over them. I can see the parallel between Aesop's fables and the bible, both being works of fiction to inform people of the consequences of their actions. I quite like the old testament for it's fire and brimstone and violence... its a good read but that's about where it ends.

texastig

danielsil18
Jesus THE MOST documented person in History?
Who taught you this lie?

Jesus is the most documented person of Ancient History.

Thank you,

I stand corrected. I should of added "Ancient ".

ImaFungi
This was my intuitive best guess at how history most likely played out. 'Witty' rulers of wealth and power creating a story to keep the population they were ruling over in check and in line and obedient. Also a great tool in conquering and converting other populations.

I agree.

Ironically, the christians in this thread who rise to "defend" their faith, and attack this scholar do nothing for their cause.

If Jesus is real, or was real rather...you should all (christians and non-christians alike) APPLAUD the scholar who is attempting to show his evidence that Christ never existed....because the more research that is done, the more the true facts come to light. Anyone so certain that Christ existed should WELCOME scrutiny and skepticism, so long as it is based in an honest approach (which some say this isn't , fair enough, but I haven't made up my mind yet).

What I'm saying is, those who disagree with this man's findings because of his faith, are attacking the man, and not his discoveries.

Also, you are never going to win an argument with a non-believer if you don't take a healthy approach to the debate. Simply saying "Those who think they don't need a God, are not in touch with reality" or whatever, does NOTHING for the debate of whether or not the man known as Jesus actually existed.

If the ONLY evidence you need of Jesus existing is the Bible....then that is YOUR choice. But how dare you criticize those that want to actually research and base their conclusions on FACTS, not blind faith.

NoRulesAllowed

texastig

Bisman
while I do believe Jesus existed. I also know he is incredibly undocumented...
ghere is so little information about him. and it ALL comes from the bible. a sourse that on its own, can't really be trusted to cite history.

He is the most documented person of Ancient History.

Actually I do NOT think that Jesus is "the most documented person of Ancient History". I personally do think that Jesus indeed lived, but that all the stories about him are tales/fiction and deliberately exaggerated.

"Documented" would mean that we have verifiable and true facts. But we don't. What we have are mystical and religious texts about him which COULD have been written for whatever reason and where we do not know about how true those stories are.

Jesus, as a spiritual figure (mind you: I choose to say SPIRITUAL because I like this MUCH better than the word "religious") certainly gained a lot of followers. WHAT about those stories people told about Jesus throughout the centuries are TRUE - what stories are NOT true - what was added later, what was erased later? Did Jesus, the spiritual person REALLY perform miracles or was this only told later by the supporters who wrote it down as "truth"?

THIS WAS 2000 YEARS AGO at a time where people were not educated whatsoever.

What of Jesus' teachings, the TRUE teachings and his message(s)...has really survived in scriptures...what was simply added later and what was edited by the powers so it fit THEIR agenda? Do you really think that current CHURCH does truly reflect the message of Jesus? I don't.

I don't see Jesus as a person who walked earth and told people to join a religious group with priests and pray in cold and dusty "churches" to find god. I think Jesus preached EXACTLY the opposite.

I think Jesus was "anti establishment" and that he had no interest that a powerful church will be founded, in fact I think that Church today (to the most part) teaches the exact opposite of what Jesus actually taught. Therefore I have reason to believe that MOST "documents" about Jesus we can read today are false.

edit on 32013R000000WednesdayAmerica/Chicago22PMWednesdayWednesday by NoRulesAllowed because: (no reason given)

I agree with everything you said, except the part about people being uneducated.. math and science and medicine was alive and well even 2000 years ago. A lot of the surgical implements used today were being created and used over 2000 years ago to perform operations from lobotomies to reducing cranial pressure by creating holes in the skull, scalpels retractors and very fine grasping tools have really not changed a lot in 2000 years (minus the specialty instruments). People had to have the technology to create these tools, it's just to bad they weren't able to get the sterilization part down... imagine were medicine would be these days if they did. Astronomy without the use of telescopes (that we know of) mathematics precise enough to construct pyramids and myriad other structures which still have exactness and stability today, poetry, art, governments... they were anything but uneducated.

Other than that I hold the same view that you do on Jesus,,, 2000 years from now the complete collection of DR, Seuss will be what they are worshiping in the "churches"... but at a much heftier tithe.