"You Might Hate Obamacare, But It's Saved These People's Lives "

AlienScience
reply to post by Willtell

 

As you can see from the vitriolic replies, people don't care about other people...they only care about their narrow ideology.

The ACA is saving lives, and people seem to HATE that fact...they would rather these people die than admit that the ACA is saving peoples lives.

It's ugly, but it is the reality...there is a group of people in this country that care for no one except themselves and their ideology.

How is the ACA saving peoples lives when the policies that became available on the exchanges aren't in force until 1/1/2014? Doctors and medical personnel are the ones savings peoples live... not ACA. Most hospitals are required to treat sick patients with or without insurance and last time I looked the deductibles on anything affordable on my states insurance exchange started at $7000 and went up (and was an "affordable" $890 a month).
While I do care about other people, I care about my family first and it will always be that way. So if something is forced on us that may help some and hurt others I look to see how my family is going to be affected by it, if it is going to take food out of my children's mouths because we cant afford it then I have a problem with that.
Helping people is great, I donate to charities, help friends and neighbors if and when I can so for you to generalize that those of us who don't agree with your opinion don't care about other people is extremely narrow minded.

Willtell
reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux

 

All your success comes from this countries system. Therefore you owe it something. OF COUSRE TAXES SHOULD BE MODERATE.

Success comes from hard work and perseverance, not from the government or it's programs. I owe this country nothing. This country (or government) didn't teach me the skills I have, I did.

If you want a business you benefit from hiring the people the system educates.

The system doesn't educate people. Yes, it provides an education, but the individual must chose to be educated. Besides, have you seen our education system lately? No one benefits from it anymore.

If you want a house in a community you benefit from the fire department, police department, the roads, the garbage pick up, the bridges. All that is not free.

Yes, and I have no issue what so ever in paying the taxes for those things. I do have issue in paying taxes and fines for a service that I neither want nor need but am being forced to have.

We don’t want people dying in the street because they can’t get basic health care.

I agree and never said we should. I believe we can do it a better way than the ACA.

reply to post by Willtell


Do you personally know these people?

Do you have PROOF that these people actually exist and are not made up propaganda stories to promote
"Obamacare"?

I believe nothing on the internet or news media unless I can absolutely prove it's true.

Even "IF" it saved the lives of those 3 people it has made the lives of many more than that suffer.

reply to post by Daedalus

the ACA as a whole is not helping anyone....a SINGLE provision, that could have easily been passed on it's own, is doing some good for some folks...

Are you talking about no pre-existing conditions?

That is impossible to pass without having other provisions such as an individual mandate.

mwood
reply to post by Willtell

 

Do you personally know these people?

Do you have PROOF that these people actually exist and are not made up propaganda stories to promote
"Obamacare"?

I believe nothing on the internet or news media unless I can absolutely prove it's true.

Even "IF" it saved the lives of those 3 people it has made the lives of many more than that suffer.

Ya I tried getting him to prove this a while ago...

Guess what.. still waiting...

Crakeur and someone else pointed out this a propaganda piece to show idiots that Obamacare is awesome as hell..

AlienScience
reply to post by Daedalus

 

the ACA as a whole is not helping anyone....a SINGLE provision, that could have easily been passed on it's own, is doing some good for some folks...

Are you talking about no pre-existing conditions?

That is impossible to pass without having other provisions such as an individual mandate.

LOL

That's total BeeEss.

The premiums are based on the assumed average costs.

The employer based policies have never excluded pre existing.

Unless of course you can actually show evidence for wild assumptions.

First...with this lying administration and President, I don't believe anything including these testimonials without proof. But, regardless...it is not my job to pay for anyone for anything and as much as it may sound harsh, I don't really care. My care, efforts and money are for me, my family and my loved ones. If I choose to support a charity, it is my choice. ObamaCare forces me to care for other people and DOESN'T TAKE MY FAMILY INTO CONSIDERATION!

Let me say that again...ObamaCare takes money from me and my family to take care of others. If I can't afford that, my family suffers. And even if I can afford that, the law doesn't care that it takes money that we need from us. Its not like I can prove that I have to pay for my kids college, etc...I don't have a choice. And when anyone takes money from someone else without their permission, that is stealing.

So yes...Obama is a lying, cheating, stealing and sad excuse for a President and a person. Take from my family? Go to hell!

reply to post by WeAreAWAKE


Lol, you were paying for it anyway! All those people who dont have health insurance that get medical treatment and dont pay....the government reinburses the hospital for most of it, thats how they stay afloat.

Anywho, in case some of you are unaware, if you can opt out of your employers coverage if it meets certain requirements and replace it with a cheaper option found in the marketplace. Of course this all depends on income, family size, and medical problems. Based on those things you could get a subsidy which comes out to a cheaper per month premium.

Willtell
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Of course self reliance should be encouraged. Most people are more self- reliant then you think.

Perhaps. They seem to be "self-reliant" within a matrix of abject dependency to me, but I suppose they must have some degree of self-reliance simply to function. it's the human way - or was, at least. Sometimes I am truly surprised that some people can cook their own breakfast or tie their own shoes.

But when it comes to the health system, they have made it too expensive. What is a person to do with a hospital bill where an aspirin is 600 dollars?

No real argument - they HAVE made it far too expensive, and not nearly as infallible as they would have you believe. I don't know about 600 dollar aspirins. I've not been in a hospital as a patient since I was born, other than one fairly quick trip in the mid-80's, which didn't involve an overnight stay or anything. Only went then because my wife at the time wouldn't leave me alone if I didn't. Doctor said there wasn't any problem, same thing I'd been telling her.

Haven't been to a doctor at all since 1995 or so, and that was for a pre-employment physical. I don't deal with them, and I don't take aspirin, so I have no gauge to measure it by, nor any idea what one does with a 600 dollar aspirin.

Since I don't take aspirin period, I certainly wouldn't go to a hospital to get one.

Most people can’t and aren’t as self–reliant as your John Wayne type tough guy image, you have 300 million people in this country and the old cowboy days are over. People are now use to easier things.

Can't argue there, either - people DO seem to have gotten used to a life of ease. For me, it's a matter of just a bit more than John-Wayne-ing it, however. America as a whole seems to me to be breeding weakness these days, due in part to the life of ease they insist on. I don't see how America can survive the softening it's undergoing.

But it is all in jeopardy because of what the greedy selfish politicians and corporate hogs have done.

Right now I don’t see an easy solution.

Rely more on yourself, and less on them. Starve those greedy hogs out by not throwing your money at them. There are probably some things one needs a doctor for, but not most of what people use them for. They have not only pumped their prices up beyond all reason, they have also fostered a guaranteed consumer base by making people think they are needed for far more than they are.

Same goes for the politicians. they aren't as necessary as their self-important images make people think they are. Politicians, like government, exist these days only to promote their own existence. The days when they were a benefit to the populace are long gone.

They have become parasites on the population.

Though I will say this. There was a glimmer of hope in the recent national uproar over the Syrian intervention. But now with the Obamacare division its all for nothing.

That WAS a sight, wasn't it? I was against Syrian intervention BECAUSE I think people should e left alone to work out their own problems. You were probably against it for other reasons, but in the final analysis we all stood together to stop it regardless of our individual reasons.

Obamacare is probably a horse of a different color, I can't find any common ground that would allow me to promote it, and you probably can't find any that would allow you to prune it back to manageable levels.

Personally, I COULD HAVE lived with it, if not promoted it, if they had left that stupid individual mandate out. With that still a part of it, I can't stand idly by and accept it. It makes lemmings of us all. I've said dozens of times, even here at AT, that I don't care what other folks do about THEIR health care. It's not any of MY business. They can knock themselves out and go crazy with it, just as long as myself and others like me are allowed a way out of it.

They didn't give us that, so we have to just take it.

reply to post by greencmp


I can tell you that my son can continue working full time and attending college full time because of Obama Care. He has asthma and back pain. Both were counted as pre-existing conditions and he was thrown in the pool with cancer patients etc. He fought with the insurance company for a year trying to get his back treated. Finally, when they removed the pre-existing condition clause they paid 80% for his treatments on his back. Much cheaper than the ER.

Willtell
reply to post by Daedalus

 

I must say to you that I wish there were more decent politicians. I can think of a few, but not many.

I don’t agree with your analysis. This country, imo, is capable of absorbing a national health system as good as any other country.

agree or not, it's a correct analysis....they would do the same thing with a fund for national healthcare, that they did to social security....steal all the money, and use it for crap, instead of what it was intended for....then they'd threaten us with no access to healthcare the next time they need the debt ceiling raised..

Willtell
reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux

 

All your success comes from this countries system. Therefore you owe it something. OF COUSRE TAXES SHOULD BE MODERATE.

....where have i heard that before?

oh wait.....OBAMA

mr "you didn't build that" himself....

If you want a business you benefit from hiring the people the system educates.

unless they were home schooled, or went to a private school....

You have to send your kids to a school, public or private, that benefits from the public infrastructure.

and?

If you want a house in a community you benefit from the fire department, police department, the roads, the garbage pick up, the bridges. All that is not free.

unless those services are not provided by your municipality...

No man is an island.

The same thing goes for the greater society

We don’t want people dying in the street because they can’t get basic health care.

you still haven't been able to explain away something that i've mentioned a few times in this thread...

i don't have health insurance...i haven't had health insurance for years...i'm not dead.

no insurance does NOT mean no access to medical services....

acmpnsfal
reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

 

Anywho, in case some of you are unaware, if you can opt out of your employers coverage if it meets certain requirements and replace it with a cheaper option found in the marketplace. Of course this all depends on income, family size, and medical problems. Based on those things you could get a subsidy which comes out to a cheaper per month premium.

OR -

I could just say "hell no! I'm NOT buying into that system!" and let the chips fall where they may.

I'm taking THAT option.

I have zero interest in throwing my own money into the toilet and flushing it. If I took my insurance premiums out in the street and set them on fire, I'd get more benefit from them - at least then they would provide me with heat!

Giving them to an insurance company provide me with nothing at all, especially considering the astronomical deductibles under these plans.

Why buy insurace in the first place when I'm going to have to pay all of my doctor bills out of pocket anyhow? What the hell is the insurance for in that case, other than to enrich some greedy-assed insurance CEO?

AlienScience
reply to post by Daedalus

 

the ACA as a whole is not helping anyone....a SINGLE provision, that could have easily been passed on it's own, is doing some good for some folks...

Are you talking about no pre-existing conditions?

That is impossible to pass without having other provisions such as an individual mandate.

no, that's incorrect.

the role of the federal government is to protect the citizens. refusing to insure people because of pre-existing conditions is discrimination....last i checked, discrimination is illegal.

the government would have been well within their legal authority to pass a bill barring insurance providers from discriminating against sick people, and also barring them from raising premiums on the rest of us, in retaliation.....

saying that they somehow needed to get permission from the industry, in the form of a bribe, with OUR MONEY, to make this work, is both laughable and idiotic..

I wonder if it would be possible to implement some of its positives like forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions without forcing people to buy health insurance if they don't want to. I'm not that well read on the topic but that seems to be the biggest issue people have with it.

The more I read this thread the more confused I get. I think the biggest problem with this is all the dis-information going on and probably why I haven't read much about the topic because threads are usually filled with conflicting information.

reply to post by Strakha


what's confusing?

it's all very simple......they passed a bill, without reading it, that was written by the insurance industry. this bill requires us to buy health insurance, from approved vendors, whom are the ones who wrote the bill...still with me?

this insurance, in a lot of cases, costs more than what people already have. if you decide you don't need or want insurance, they charge you a fine...it starts with 95 dollars, or one percent of your income for the first year...whichever is more..and the fine gets progressively higher, the longer you remain uninsured...for example, in 2016, if you're still uninsured, it's 2.5 percent of your income for the year, or 695 dollars, whichever is more. and it goes up and up, in a similar fashion....still with me?

they put the IRS in charge of enforcement....which means you may not end up in debtor prison if you can't pay the fines, but they can do other nasty things to you, to take your money.


that, in a nutshell, is most of the problem with this bill...the individual mandate is absurd, and would never pass on it's own, which is why it's lumped in with other lousy bits, into this disgustingly bloated omnibus legislation...

reply to post by Daedalus


I understand that much but what I don't understand is why they have to force people to buy it to regulate the insurance companies and force them to cover pre-existing conditions. Can't the government just say if you want to do business in America these are the rules to the company? There are rules for most business without needing to force people to buy services from those businesses. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Well that is my biggest question and there seems to be conflicting information in this thread about whether or not its possible. I don't see why it wouldn't be personally.

Though when I think about it I could see how forcing everyone to get healthcare would make covering people with pre-existing conditions cheaper because some people would just wait until they had a condition before bothering to get healthcare and that would drive costs for everyone up. I don't think there is ever going to be a solution everyone is happy with. There is just so many issues for and against and things to consider.

MOMof3
reply to post by greencmp

 

I can tell you that my son can continue working full time and attending college full time because of Obama Care. He has asthma and back pain. Both were counted as pre-existing conditions and he was thrown in the pool with cancer patients etc. He fought with the insurance company for a year trying to get his back treated. Finally, when they removed the pre-existing condition clause they paid 80% for his treatments on his back. Much cheaper than the ER.

Long before Obamacare came along, people who had coverage through their employer and had pre-existing conditions would have to wait six months to one year before the insurance company would cover treatment on their particular conditions, but the insurance company would still would have to cover it after that time period was over, it was the standard.

Sure are some gullible people on here,can't you see they are nothing but shills,sad to say most people believe everything the government says,even if it lacks in any truth,sheeple