"You Might Hate Obamacare, But It's Saved These People's Lives "

reply to post by AshleyD


There already is a group in place to control medical costs.
This group of doctors meet at least once a year to set prices for procedures and such.
And I think they had a lot to do with this new trainwreck, errrr, law.

“What started as an advisory group has taken on a life of its own,” said Tom Scully, who was Medicare chief during the George W. Bush administration and is now a partner in a private equity firm that invests in health care. “The idea that $100 billion in federal spending is based on fixed prices that go through an industry trade association in a process that is not open to the public is pretty wild.”

articles.washingtonpost.com...

Everyone here should read this article. It's an insight into why things cost what they do.

On the last week of April earlier this year, a small committee of doctors met quietly in a midsized ballroom at the Renaissance Hotel in Chicago. There was an anesthesiologist, an ophthalmologist, a radiologist, and so on—thirty-one in all, each representing their own medical specialty society, each a heavy hitter in his or her own field.

The meeting was convened, as always, by the American Medical Association. Since 1992, the AMA has summoned this same committee three times a year. It’s called the Specialty Society Relative Value Scale Update Committee (or RUC, pronounced “ruck”), and it’s probably one of the most powerful committees in America that you’ve never heard of.

washingtonmonthly.com...

The AMA is such a powerful lobby, I don't see how the government could save healthcare from them.

Onslaught2996
reply to post by MsAphrodite

 

May not be relevant to the topic but it is relevant to the other posters who are in this thread spreading lies about ObamaCare.

I am simply refuting those claims.

ok, exactly what lies are people spreading about this program?

make a case, lay out your facts, and say it all yourself, instead of a spam post full of links to propaganda, and sanitized partisan crap...

if you'd do that, i would personally volunteer to talk it out with you.

is this acceptable to you?

reply to post by DontTreadOnMe


They're obviously from the same pricing group that deemed government hammers being worth $8,000.

Sad thing about this thread is there are only a handful of ATS members commenting on it when every single USA ATS member should be.

This just tells you either people suffer from apathy or greed.
People who don't care, or people who want something for nothing.
The former are lazy, the latter are even more lazy.

Onslaught2996
reply to post by xuenchen

 

So you got nothing, coming from you it was expected.

You are one of the more outspoken liars on ATS. You create a thread, then when facts and truths are shown to counter your propaganda..you simply disappear and move on to the next thread you can create.

But hey continue the threads.. you are only reaching those that already buy into the BS. You gain no headway with anyone else..so good job..

edit on 6-10-2013 by Onslaught2996 because: (no reason given)

what'd he say that was untrue? that's a hell of an accusation to make...

Daedalus

Onslaught2996
reply to post by MsAphrodite

 

May not be relevant to the topic but it is relevant to the other posters who are in this thread spreading lies about ObamaCare.

I am simply refuting those claims.

ok, exactly what lies are people spreading about this program?

make a case, lay out your facts, and say it all yourself, instead of a spam post full of links to propaganda, and sanitized partisan crap...

if you'd do that, i would personally volunteer to talk it out with you.

is this acceptable to you?

I doubt you'll get much.

I laid out my situation and no one has contested it, but I'm the one not giving in to oppression.

AshleyD
reply to post by DontTreadOnMe

 

They're obviously from the same pricing group that deemed government hammers being worth $8,000.

Or one course of IV thymo costing me 20K... to keep my daughter alive. I paid it.


Our middle daughter was born with a rare liver disease ( Caroli Disease) and had her first surgery within the first few months of her life.. a Kasai procedure. At 9 ( and 9 years of surgeries, meds, and hospital stays) she got a liver transplant. This liver had issues, but its not like you give it back when they have already taken yours out.. so we deal with it. NUMEROUS hospitalizations, surgeries, and rejection episodes. MEGA med costs. Right now she is on several meds to keep her alive.. Prograf, Cellcept, etc... and these are HEFTY priced drugs. Most couldnt afford a percentage copay on these suckers.

Ive worked my whole life, the husband has worked his whole life.. I had to quit when she got bad off.. but we had a lot of savings and he kept working of course. We also not only had our insurance through his employer but we also purchased a sep policy.... good thing we did. We are well well over the 2mil we originally estimated. This last big rejection she had.. 20K for one course of Thymo. If people think healthcare and big pharma arent holding us over a barrel.. theyre freaking blind AND stupid.

DontTreadOnMe
...
The AMA is such a powerful lobby, I don't see how the government could save healthcare from them.

Easy, actually- change the requirements for medical practice licenses....
Wait! That's a state issue.

abecedarian

Willtell
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Say that to a cop when he catches you without car insurance.

The problem with that assertion is that car insurance is regulated by the states, like health insurance "was" until recently, not the federal government. Also, the states requiring auto insurance simply require insurance be purchased for the vehicle, otherwise the 'registration' for the vehicle becomes invalid thus making the vehicle illegal to drive.

They don't require people without vehicles to purchase insurance, pool that money to provide vehicle insurance to people who are otherwise unable to purchase vehicle insurance, and penalize you for not contributing to the "Affordable Automotive Insurance Act of ___(insert your state name here)___".

Therefore, your argument is invalid.

edit on 10/6/2013 by abecedarian because: (no reason given)

Dag nabbit. I just realized I tipped off the Democrats in California what they can do to aid all the illegal immigrant drivers they've just allowed... and maybe even worse... illegal immigrants can be lawyers in CA too.

AshleyD
reply to post by Onslaught2996

 

FYI: One of your links is satire. The 'myths debunked' list.

It appears to be poking fun at right wing rednecks but is actually making fun of the liberal left wing 'Obamacare is awesome' types.

That was priceless!

It was worth every penny of the admission I pay daily to get onto ATS!

Onslaught2996: can I, like, quote you on that "supportive" link?

ROFLMFAO!

abecedarian

I doubt you'll get much.

I laid out my situation and no one has contested it, but I'm the one not giving in to oppression.

fair enough....but i'm a pretty reasonable guy...figured i'd give him a chance..

reply to post by Willtell


As you can see from the vitriolic replies, people don't care about other people...they only care about their narrow ideology.

The ACA is saving lives, and people seem to HATE that fact...they would rather these people die than admit that the ACA is saving peoples lives.

It's ugly, but it is the reality...there is a group of people in this country that care for no one except themselves and their ideology.

kaylaluv

MsAphrodite
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Again Kaylaluv, call it for what it is. The government is not in the business of selling products therefore it does not market anything.

This is a propaganda piece.

Actually, I prefer the term "promotion". They are promoting the new healthcare law, to let people know that there some very good benefits for them. "Propaganda" usually means to spread a lie to manipulate the public. But what this particular OP covers is not a lie. The new law IS responsible for the PCIP federal insurance program for people with pre-existing conditions who couldn't get insurance before. The new law IS responsible for requiring that adult children under 26 be allowed to stay on their parents' insurance plan. Those things are true - not a lie.

The term "propaganda" does not always, or even "usually" involve spreading lies. The most effective propaganda contains truth, because truth is impossible to refute. propaganda is just placing spin on the message to promote an agenda, whether advertising, "promoting" a concept, or making outright lies palatable.

It's just that making outright lies palatable is much more difficult, due to the threats of having the lie exposed. Spinning up truth is much more effective - and something the administration ought to try every now and then.

Trying to "promote" the lie that premiums and deductibles aren't going to go up, in the face of the obvious fact that they ARE going up, is not going to be very effective. looks to me like it's going to altogether backfire.

What do you suppose will happen to "affordable" health care when people realize that the fines, taxes, or whatever they are called today are cheaper to pay than one month's insurance premium, leaving the other 11 months worth of premiums in disposable income for people to do with as they see fit - like pay for their own health care out of pocket, and ave money left over? Compound that with the discovery that deductibles are raising so high that "insurance" premiums are actually covering nothing but country club memberships for insurance corporation CEO's?

This could get so interesting that I may have to pop some popcorn before I settle in to watch the implosion of Obamacare.

The American people are getting Obamacare because it is the only thing this rotten system of corporate control of Government could produce.

It’s the best the system will yield; it's what beggars can get.

It’s for the 40 million who can’t get insurance, not people who are already insured.

It flawed because the system is flawed.

When you criticize it you are criticizing the political, cultural, and economic system of America.

The only good in it is that some poor people will get some help.

And in this country if you are not rich then you are poor.

reply to post by Willtell


I will not disagree one bit.

The corporate greed and corupt government have taken control and I am, at the same time, criticizing the political, cultural, and economic system of America.

This is a product of it...so why not continue to be consistent?

reply to post by AlienScience

I understand that. And that is what will likely, without a doubt, destroy this country and the world.

Selfishness, ignorance, and greed.

While people go around thinking about their “freedom" and “independence” all around them will collapse because the nature of reality is love, generosity and unity and selfishness is the opposite of these things.

The Sunlight doesn’t just give itself to the few. The rain just doesn’t fall on a few.

And anyone who really thinks they are independent is blind.

In the end if we don’t take care of each other we all will be destroyed.

Without a shadow of a doubt.

abecedarian
Sad thing about this thread is there are only a handful of ATS members commenting on it when every single USA ATS member should be.

This just tells you either people suffer from apathy or greed.
People who don't care, or people who want something for nothing.
The former are lazy, the latter are even more lazy.

Or it could be that those posters have said the same thing the rest of us would say, so there's no need to add posts saying as much. It's already bad enough trying to wade through those posters who have their heads so far up Obama's ass they can't see daylight that show up in every thread that deals with Obama to bash anyone who questions or belittles their dear leader.

It could also mean that many of us are now too busy trying to figure out just wtf we're going to do now that our hours have been cut in half and our insurance has been cancelled. As for the pics in the OP. The smell of the BS coming off of them is so ripe I can smell it from here.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


You have to take what you can get in this system. It yields little. The powerful and the greedy have stolen the resources. We are not free to deny the crumbs we can get because there always will be some amongst us who will need those crumbs to survive.

AboveBoard
reply to post by nenothtu

 

I think you have very good and valid points here, nenothtu. I have friends who feel the same way and who, in their case, prefer alternative medicine which is not covered by insurance generally.

I do have a question, and this is asked extremely respectfully, if you (or a family member?) had something catastrophic happen, such as a major accident or "expensive" illness requiring major surgery and rehab, or long term treatment, would you be able to pay out of pocket?

If this is too personal, I apologize. I know that my child's medical costs were astronomical (well over $250,000 for the first go round, with more after that). Please know I am not asking to "make a point" or anything like that! I'm genuinely asking in order to understand your views. And I would understand if you didn't answer.

I certainly respect your sense of self-determination, AND, I too, find for-profit insurance companies an evil in the world...

peace to you,
AB

I can't honestly answer that, since I've not been personally in a situation that I couldn't cover.

Generally, I take care of myself, both preventive and remedial measures - i.e. throwing my own stitches and the like when I get too careless, setting my own broken bones, etc.

The only "catastrophic" event I can anticipate at this point in my life would be the likelihood of cancer. If or when it comes, I'll treat it on my own as well as I can, and if that isn't good enough, I'll die from it - but I never planned on living forever anyhow.

It (this stubbornness and insistence on self-reliance) probably runs in the family. When my dear old dad got cancer, he refused all medical treatment and eventually died from it. Sad though some may see that to be, I saw him go out on his own terms, and I'm damned proud of him for it.

I'm not any better than he was.

SO - I'll handle what I can, pay on my own for what I can without begging anyone's help, and go out on my own terms when my time comes, which it certainly eventually will.

I do know that years ago two of my sisters had to have multiple major surgeries. Dad moved heaven and Earth to make sure they got the surgeries, without asking for any help. I suppose I would do the same, but the point is moot now, as my kids are grown and on their own.

Thanks for asking, peace and all due respect right back at ya!

reply to post by Simon_Boudreaux


What’s your solution? You think for one minute that there are not people out there who need Obamacare to survive? Reflected in this op?
Or do you give a dam

Another...not with my taxes kind of guy

Then you live in fantasyland.

I have lived with the poor all my dam life and know about need

In America you are either rich or poor, there are no more in betweens, no more middle class

Only the deluded and deceived who think there is something called middle class.

There never really was such a thing