"You Might Hate Obamacare, But It's Saved These People's Lives "

Willtell
reply to post by solomons path

 

Personally I wanted a single payer like Canada. Also, I am not an Obama fan, but I am realistic, and hope the system gets better.

OK, time for some definitions here. WTF are you calling "single payer"? If I go to a doctor and pay it out of my own pocket, there ain't but one of me paying, thus a "single payer" system. How is what you are advocating any different? What makes THAT "single payer"?

There are horror stories all over this country that this anti-universal health care mob doesn’t give a dam about.

As I've said dozens of times here at ATS already, I don't give a damn what YOU do about YOUR health - it's none of my business. You and your government can go crazy with it, AS LONG AS I DON'T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE.

Force me into it, there's gonna be trouble. I take care of ME already, don't need you or your government (or your "health care" or "insurance" industries) to.

reply to post by xuenchen


I see you are still trying to do...ummm well nothing..

Fail yet again. C'mon..at least try to prove it is BS. Even right wing propaganda will show some effort on your part.

nenothtu

Willtell
reply to post by solomons path

 

Personally I wanted a single payer like Canada. Also, I am not an Obama fan, but I am realistic, and hope the system gets better.

OK, time for some definitions here. WTF are you calling "single payer"? If I go to a doctor and pay it out of my own pocket, there ain't but one of me paying, thus a "single payer" system. How is what you are advocating any different? What makes THAT "single payer"?

There are horror stories all over this country that this anti-universal health care mob doesn’t give a dam about.

As I've said dozens of times here at ATS already, I don't give a damn what YOU do about YOUR health - it's none of my business. You and your government can go crazy with it, AS LONG AS I DON'T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE.

Force me into it, there's gonna be trouble. I take care of ME already, don't need you or your government (or your "health care" or "insurance" industries) to.

Their definition of "single payer" is the government forcefully collects your 'contributions' and they control what care you receive and in exchange for that authority they pay the bill, which they determine.

Crakeur
reply to post by Willtell

 

I have it for a couple more months but thanks to my wife being laid off, I'll be looking for insurance. It's expensive here in NYC, more so since I'll be insuring my wife and two kids as well. I've run the numbers. It'll cost me between $20,000- $30,000 for a decent plan that doesn't have an opressive deductible. That's with, or without, the CACA, sorry ACA.

It's going to cost me as much as it would if I self-insured.

Exactly.

So WHY line some insurance company's CEO's pockets?

Cut out the middle men.

Fight the system.

Deny Obamacare / corporate welfare.

reply to post by Willtell


First of all, how do you know that those people are not just part of a PR stunt by Obama supporters?

Not to mention that how many millions of people have lost their jobs because of Obamacare?...

How many millions are working less than 40 hours which does not allow them to provide for their families?...

Not to mention that Obamacare FORCES people to pay for abortions against their conscience. You might support abortion if you want, but what gives you, or Obama, or Democrats, or anyone else the right to FORCE their views on something MILLIONS of Americans don't agree with and see as the murder of innocent lives?...

If you want to have an abortion, you go ahead, but you should pay it. If there is a group of people who want to start a charity to pay for abortion, do that instead of FORCING your opinion on something which is causing the murder of who knows how many thousands of human fetus/babies each year.

Not to mention that Obama, Democrats and even some Republicans are against amendments to the Obamacare bill which would slash lawmakers subsidies and would make them pay, and be treated the same any regular American would have to pay and will be treated by Obamacare.

Shouldn't it tell you something about OBamacare when the people in power pushing for it don't want to pay for it themselves, and they don't want the same coverage Americans will have under Obamacare?...

Well I am off.

xuenchen can continue to do nothing but tell us it is lies..with nothing to back it up but..a blank stare.

Onslaught2996
Well I am off.
...

I can agree with that.

reply to post by nenothtu



Say that to a cop when he catches you without car insurance.

Willtell
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Say that to a cop when he catches you without car insurance.

The problem with that assertion is that car insurance is regulated by the states, like health insurance "was" until recently, not the federal government. Also, the states requiring auto insurance simply require insurance be purchased for the vehicle, otherwise the 'registration' for the vehicle becomes invalid thus making the vehicle illegal to drive.

They don't require people without vehicles to purchase insurance, pool that money to provide vehicle insurance to people who are otherwise unable to purchase vehicle insurance, and penalize you for not contributing to the "Affordable Automotive Insurance Act of ___(insert your state name here)___".

Therefore, your argument is invalid.

reply to post by Willtell


i gotta ask you...how many of those signs are Photoshopped?

also, how in the hell does a law requiring you to buy a product from a company, come anywhere near a national healthcare system?

that's like saying we have a national auto insurance system, because states mandate that we must have coverage for our cars..

it's absolutely idiotic....a REAL national healthcare system is like what they have in the UK, or Australia, or Canada...where you pay tax, and that tax is used to fund treatment for the people...no private insurance, no paying anything at the time of service, or afterward....it's all covered by your tax dollars....

this is nothing like that.

abecedarian

Their definition of "single payer" is the government forcefully collects your 'contributions' and they control what care you receive and in exchange for that authority they pay the bill, which they determine.

These propagandistic euphemisms can get so confusing, can't they? Reminds me of Orwell's "DoubleSpeak". That's not "single payer", that's 330 million payers, all tugging at the same chains and iron collars!

MY system truly IS single payer. Just me.

They can do as they please, tote the same bail, haul the same barge, as long as they leave me and people like me a way to opt out.

The only way we can opt out of this travesty is by fighting the system, actively resisting it.

Which we WILL. Take that to the bank.

Willtell
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Say that to a cop when he catches you without car insurance.

The joke is on you.

I don't HAVE car insurance. I don't drive, so why would I have insurance on a car I don't have?

I've opted out of THAT, too, by the simple expedient of not driving.

Opting out of Obamacare in the same way is a bit more severe - I have to stop BREATHING.

Since that ain't gonna happen, I have to fall back to active resistance.

You see, car insurance requires that you have a car. You don't have to buy it if you don't want it. Obamacare doesn't allow that option to not get it. If you're breathing, you are required to buy a corporate product.

I'm not going to.

I am NOT "Property of the US Government". They do NOT get to tell me what to do with or how to take care of my own body.

Period.

nenothtu
These propagandistic euphemisms can get so confusing, can't they? Reminds me of Orwell's "DoubleSpeak". That's not "single payer", that's 330 million payers, all tugging at the same chains and iron collars!

MY system truly IS single payer. Just me.

They can do as they please, tote the same bail, haul the same barge, as long as they leave me and people like me a way to opt out.

The only way we can opt out of this travesty is by fighting the system, actively resisting it.

Which we WILL. Take that to the bank.

The euphemisms aren't that confusing, providing one pays attention to the underlying tome'. But everything about the ACA is "emphasize the positive" and "deny, denigrate and defame the negative" so much that the truth has been so completely obfuscated no one in their right mind won't accept it... or at least that's the theory.

With MSM and the entertainment industry being so heavily vetted, oops- I mean vested in the Obama mind-corps, what else would one expect?

reply to post by nenothtu


Good for you, I don’t begrudge your choice.

My point in the insurance rap is that we already are required to do certain things by the government.

Willtell
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Good for you, I don’t begrudge your choice.

My point in the insurance rap is that we already are required to do certain things by the government.

No we're not.

I already demonstrated that I'm not required to buy car insurance. No state in the Union, nor the Federal Government, requires me to buy car insurance.

Obamacare is more like requiring me to buy a car to subsidize the auto industry, then requiring me to buy insurance to subsize the insurance industry.

NOTHING about it is "for the People", or supportive of the individual.

It's all about making a guaranteed income for corporations.

ETA: Furthermore, the only auto insurance required is liability insurance - it only protects OTHER people if I drive negligently. Obamacare requires ME to "protect" myself according to THEIR standards, not mine. It is a mandate upon the individual, a violation of his or her right to determine his or her own destiny.

If we are to be free in our own persons, as Constitutionally mandated, then this flies entirely in the face of that guarantee of self-determination.

I AM NOT "Property of the US Government", and they WILL NOT determine my life for me.

MsAphrodite
The truth is that this "fee" is in fact a fine and not a tax. You are supposed to get something out of the taxes you pay. With this, you get nothing in return unless you buy something, (healthcare). What is shocking to me is that NO ONE is discussing what you get if you opt out.

What you get is a huge FINE, and you still don't have healthcare. It is most certainly not a tax.

The biggest bill of goods ever shoved down the citizens throats. Well at least we used to be citizens. Subjects of the US, comply... or else.

not entirely true...it's a tax...it's a choice tax..or maybe call it a life tax, or a "i woke up this morning, and forgot to thank the government" tax....

they call it a fee, because that sounds better than "fine"..they officially call it the "individual shared responsibility payment" because that sounds REALLY GOOD....but it's a tax, because it will be spent by the government for the usual crap they waste our money on, or to pay the medical expenses for all the illegals who are not required to participate in the program, or pay the non-compliance fine.

nobody is talking about the money taken from you if you don't participate, because not everyone knows about that yet....give it time...

kx12x
What a load of garbage. "I am Obamacare"? How about "I am Obamabot"?
The propaganda here is obvious, from the bold type "change" and "hope", the giant Obama logo in the background to the "I am Obamacare" chant. But what else would you expect from the Huffington post? They've been huffing something, thats for sure, if they expect me to believe this.

edit on 6-10-2013 by kx12x because: (no reason given)

Propaganda indeed.

Hey look, obamacare is so great, Nina Dobrev, a Canadian, knows exactly how it works. And got topless to show her support for something she'll never use.


Huff post

reply to post by nenothtu

I think you have very good and valid points here, nenothtu. I have friends who feel the same way and who, in their case, prefer alternative medicine which is not covered by insurance generally.

I do have a question, and this is asked extremely respectfully, if you (or a family member?) had something catastrophic happen, such as a major accident or "expensive" illness requiring major surgery and rehab, or long term treatment, would you be able to pay out of pocket?

If this is too personal, I apologize. I know that my child's medical costs were astronomical (well over $250,000 for the first go round, with more after that). Please know I am not asking to "make a point" or anything like that! I'm genuinely asking in order to understand your views. And I would understand if you didn't answer.

I certainly respect your sense of self-determination, AND, I too, find for-profit insurance companies an evil in the world...

peace to you,
AB

Willtell
One can tell the op hit a sore spot by all the vitriol by the anti-insurance mob.

How many of you mobsters DON’T HAVE health insurance?

Now don’t lie just to make a point.

I know this op hurts you.
It doesn’t confirm your notions.

Sure this ACA isn’t perfect, but we could have had a better system, maybe based on a Canadian or German model, BUT THE GOP don’t want universal health insurance for all. They didn't cooperate with the attempt to have it in this country.

Actually some of what went into the ACA was first supported by the GOP. But when Obama adapted it all of a sudden they were against it.

edit on 6-10-2013 by Willtell because: (no reason given)

lol, you're funny...

i don't have insurance. hell, at the moment, i don't even have a job....so i don't hafta file a tax return, so this doesn't even really impact me at the moment....

it's still a crap program.

when i had a job, they offered insurance. i bought into it for a while, figuring it'd be good to have it around "just in case"..you know? so i bought the lower-end coverage, because i didn't anticipate having a lot of issues...it didn't really cover much, and it was pretty expensive...something like 300 a month...

i eventually decided that it wasn't doing anything for me, and it was costing me money i needed for other things, so i canceled it, and all was ok....if i got sick, i went to my doctor, paid the office fee, and if i needed meds, i went to the drug store, where i had a prescription plan, and i got my meds, and it wasn't horribly expensive to do it that way..i signed up for charity care at the local hospital, and that would cover some of the burden at any hospital in their system....and that's how i did things....it saved me money in the long run...

with obamacare, i could not do this....i would end up paying a ton of fines for not participating....so then i'd hafta buy a product i couldn't really afford, that i would rarely use, and would be prohibitively expensive to use.....if they had made it optional, that would be great...that would be access available to all....that would be better....

the fact that it is a mandatory purchase, under threat of fine, is what tells me they don't give a good god damn about making sure the people can get medical services, they just care about the money.

How has obamacare saved anyones lives in the last few days its been inacted. Or did the government get into the act of laying hands, blood letting and walking on water.

I'm not obamacare