Why we SHOULD demand military action on Syria

reply to post by crazyewok


No, I didn't say that a missile strike was an answer; it's not. But, it is better than nothing at all.

My solution: Park a flight of B-52s over them and send in a large group of Marines; Arrest the SOB and put him on public trial for "Crimes against Humanity"; and then what ever follows logically.

That, unfortunately, won't work; But, sanctions, and other BS that has been used before on others won't work either, AND, aren't appropriate; He NEEDS to be physically hurt (unless of course he actually is innocent). This needs to happen to send the message to all countries and their leaders that this kind of inhumanity will not be tolerated...period! And, it can't be!!

reply to post by mikegrouchy


No thank you.

Hopefully all those who think conquering countries and removing leaders is OK will not have a problem when those tired of these US actions come to America to do the same. Welcome them with open arms.

Originally posted by tanka418

No, I didn't say that a missile strike was an answer; it's not. But, it is better than nothing at all.

How? As I said it will accomplish nothing long term and risk makeing things worse! The risk to benifit ratio is no existant!

Originally posted by tanka418
My solution: Park a flight of B-52s over them and send in a large group of Marines; Arrest the SOB and put him on public trial for "Crimes against Humanity"; and then what ever follows logically.

And who takes over? The rebel factions contain monsters far worse! Assad may be a monster but at least he is a controlled monster under the thumb of Russia and China and is not likley to act outside syria and is not a Jihadest, infact he seem to want to cling to life and power. Some of these rebels are not only just as evil but will be under control of no one! Infact some of them like the Jihadists ect if they took over would not only send syria down burning along with any country they can take down with them!

Originally posted by tanka418
That, unfortunately, won't work;

So why? If you know it wont work then there is NO POINT!

By action,
I mean we should demand military action to get answers.

Anything is traceable,
even dirt.



The thesis is this: Stop reacting to situations,
and take control of the situation directing it's
outcome.




1) Demand Congress take action

Not vague action, not talking points action,
but specific action.






2) We should demand Chemical Sniffing robots.

chemical sniffing robots to be used by the army





3) Demand full and thorough investigation
down to the mining operation where the
ingredients, used to make the chemical,
were taken out of the ground.




4) Hold everyone involved accountable
and start indictments if it was any of our
employees.

And by employees, I mean Military, Civilian, or Political.




5) Profit!




Those are just some Ideas, I'm asking for more.

We should own this entire operation and
come up with our own benchmarks.
Is crowd sourcing the solution
really that bad of an Idea?


Mike

I remember not being confident Saddam had WMD and was the equivalent of Hitler. I remember people telling me we should nuke him. They were madly supporting the war. I remember thinking the situation was complex and because of that I was on hte fence about it. I was called a coward.

And now it seems people madly oppose intervention. Not based on facts, but their gut. Not much has changed. However, I still think they'll support Obama if Obama chooses to go to war.

I've learned more about Syria. Again, it's all complicated. People like you want it to be simple. You want it to be a matter of good or evil. You can't think in-between. You only see good or evil. But the reality is this is a issue far more complex than that. It's good and evil and everything in-between. It involves religion and economics and political idealogy and terrorism and god knows what else. And yet you want me to come to a firm conclusion about who is more evil and I cannot. All I know is that whatever choice we make it should be on multiple fronts. We should not only come down on Assad if he truly committed this chemical attack, but we should also respect the rights of everybody in that region and not get our noses in their s***.

We live in a more complex world than during WW2. Back then our enemies actually invaded other countries and attacked our own soil directly with military assets. Nowadays, it seems to be all about proxy war and sabotage and intervention. It's like Hitler went undercover and everything is unclear.

Nothing is easy to understand. The enemy is a chameleon and we're too.

And don't tell me I'm using this as an excuse to be a coward. I can't change how I see the situation. I am what I yam. Maybe you're saying I am a coward by nature. My problem is I never see anything as pure good or evil. I always see a collection of good and bad and I'm never quite sure which is more prominent. Ultimately, what matters to me is whatever is best at reducing the death counts and stemming future war. It's just that devising a practical and calculable method to reduce deaths and prevent war is NOT EASY. I can't jump up and down and madly support something. I have to research and assess.

People always want me to have conviction, but how can I when a conclusion is not cheap? I'm always in research mode. I'm never certain even if I'm confident. I can't relate to most people it seems.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


I've asked you this at least twice so heres hoping 3rd times the charm. What exactly do you think the benefit is of the US invading a country in the middle of a civil war to obtain evidence from the CW attack when the UN already has that evidence and its being tested at several independent labs across Europe? what justifies the additional loss of life to obtain something that had already been obtained and is already being tested?

Originally posted by peter vlar
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

I've asked you this at least twice so heres hoping 3rd times the charm. What exactly do you think the benefit is of the US invading a country in the middle of a civil war to obtain evidence from the CW attack when the UN already has that evidence and its being tested at several independent labs across Europe? what justifies the additional loss of life to obtain something that had already been obtained and is already being tested?

And I have answered this four times.
Here is number five.

Originally posted by marg6043

Sadly with more than one billion US tax payer dollars to support Syrian people and rebels for the last 2 years, we can pretty much deduce that it was US tax payer dollars under the Obama administration that funded the chemical attack on the people.

Sooooo, I demand that the Obama administration including congress should be held accountable for the crimes against Humanity in the country of Syria

I don't pay taxes so the corporate government can go and kill people in the countries of their interest due to financial expectations.

. [color=gold] Down with the war machine.

Take control of the war machine I say.

Abdicating our responsibility by wishing it to go away
hasn't worked for 40 years.

We should demand action.
Not vague, bomb dropping action,
but specific, we want evidence and we want it in the possession of the public, action.

A war machine is just like a war horse.
It's not the horse, it's who's riding it.

Mount the horse with us, and we can ride it where We want, not where the media tells us too.



See I would join you in demanding indictments except for one thing.
We are not in possession of any actual evidence at this moment, are we.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


lol Good luck with all that lol

Apart from you and Obama no one wants another Iraq.

reply to post by crazyewok

No one wants another Iraq bcause we're afraid of intervening in another country based on bad information. But the thing is, even if this is good information, I'm not sure intervention is good.

A response is a good idea, but intervention? On what scale? This is both a civil war in Syria AND a sort of proxy war being fought by nations in the ME and elsewhere in the world. To me it's a hornets nest of good guys and bad guys and you're not sure what you're going to get when you pull your hand out.

Any kind of response needs the UN and it needs support from more than just one or two countries. We live in a larger world now and we shouldn't act unilaterally. I dare to say we should never act unilaterally. Instead we should share what we know with other countries and produce a response.

We need Russia and China in the response. Don't exclude them. Why do I say this? Because we need them. They can and do make the world better. We're better together. And they're not the only ones who have a hand in the ME mess. In fact, a lot of the mess is tied to the ME itself.

Originally posted by crazyewok
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

lol Good luck with all that lol

Apart from you and Obama no one wants another Iraq.

After the little drive-by comment you dropped on page one,
you never replied to my response.


Mike


Here is a repost to save effort.

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Originally posted by crazyewok
If you want to go over and meddle even more in middle easten affarirs than maybe you should go enlist and do the dirty work yourlself cause I dam well certainly wont!

I did.
I know exactly what I'm saying.

ATS really above top secret: I was there (first shots on Iran)

I am not some kind of armchair warrior.

Mike

Yeah great....well reinlist then.

Or join a PMC company. Hell Im sure the rebels will take you.


As for me I want as far away as possible.

Only if we are going to war with ALL the dictators in the middle east, and the religious zealots too.

Otherwise there is no point.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Hi. I saw this thread yesterday but didn't have time to post to it.

I don't think we should go wading into Syria, our countries are not under attack. We should leave them to work things out for themselves. We cannot and should not be forcing anyone to play any game by our rules.

If we are concerned or suspect that atrocities are being committed then yes we must do something to help the innocent.

The least and most we should do to help, is to offer refuge to those people who don't want to fight, who don't want to be victims, and who don't want to live in fear of persecution. We should not be getting involved further than this.

If we offer refuge to those whom have had a bellyful of war and killing, then the ones who want to fight will be the only ones left there to get on with their war, and can continue to commit their atrocities not on the innocent, but on each other, free of interference.

The result will be they either learn to get along or they will wipe each other out. Either way, it will come to a natural end eventually.

This is how I would prefer that history would remember us.

Originally posted by crazyewok
Yeah great....well reinlist then.

Or join a PMC company. Hell Im sure the rebels will take you.


As for me I want as far away as possible.

Does this mean your are in the discussion merely for the fashion statement,
that no solutions will be offered, no contribution to finding the right path.


Mike

Originally posted by doobydoll
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Hi. I saw this thread yesterday but didn't have time to post to it.

I don't think we should go wading into Syria, our countries are not under attack. We should leave them to work things out for themselves. We cannot and should not be forcing anyone to play any game by our rules.

If we are concerned or suspect that atrocities are being committed then yes we must do something to help the innocent.

The least and most we should do to help, is to offer refuge to those people who don't want to fight, who don't want to be victims, and who don't want to live in fear of persecution. We should not be getting involved further than this.

If we offer refuge to those whom have had a bellyful of war and killing, then the ones who want to fight will be the only ones left there to get on with their war, free of interference.

The result will be they either learn to get along or they will wipe each other out. Either way, it will come to a natural end eventually.

This is how I would prefer that history would remember us.

Exactly,

the only way we should be wading into Syria is with first aid, food, shelter, clothing.

If Assad's forces are in fact responsible for this chemical attack, then action must be taken.
In this current situation there seem to be too many agendas.
The US has no credibility, in declaring their "intelligence". They have cried wolf before.

Sit tight, lets see how this plays out, the consequences may be far reaching.
Let's hope it's the right action for the right reason at the right time.
If not, just don't

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Well mike I have seen you post the pic of the robot several times now and it seems you have a big misconception about them. First you may not realize it but they require the operator to be in a certain proximity to them. They are not automatons. Secound they would only be able to determine if certain compounds are present in no way would they be able to give enough information to trace where they originated. That requires boots on the ground an a lab. Third would be battery life there would only be so much time it could remain operational before stoping all together. Fourth would be recovery unless you want to leave classified technology in such a region for those who are not our allies to recover. It all comes back to the fact that what you are asking for would require the physical presence of the US on the ground there.

reply to post by crazyewok


Hmmmmm.

Then perhaps we should forgive ALL crimes, especially Crimes against Humanity!

Is THAT your response?

From what I've seen here, I am becoming ore and more happy that I'm not Terrestrial. I mean seriously man! Really?!? It's OKAY to commit crimes against Humanity?!? I bet you won't change any crime against a Human.

And you still want to call yourselves civilized!!

History is replete with posturing and political games,