Why we SHOULD demand military action on Syria

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Thanks for your reply, I just wanted to see your reasoning
as your op opened with a chart on perceptions
In other words it was a visual designed to override reasoning, via emotion.
Not a good way to make a decision....however.....

Ok, lets say for a moment you are right, and for the sake of discussion,
we need to now demand action, as opposed to the moral depravity of not acting.

Who are we to act upon? Syria? We are to demand action....what action?
A military action? A drone strike? A missile strike? Why?

If not drones, and only missiles, why?
What is the target area? What areas are off limits?
And what is the strategy behind those decisions?

Now, also if it is missile strikes, when we have the capability to do
much more with presicion, then why not a strike from orbit?

And, again...who are we to strike with military action?
Syria? Al Qaeda? Why Syria and not Al Qaeda?
Why Al Quada and not The Rebels. Where is the proof
of what chemicals were used, by whom? Where is any proof
except videos from facebook?

So you think you have the why down, well then who, when. where?
Oh, and then what???

Syria is going to cower? All of the other nations who are not U.S. allies
will cower? Al Qaeda - whom was defeated once, will cower?

Or, are we to demand military action so that we can start a war with "justification"

And, what makes chemical weapons a moral outrage, as opposed to drone strikes?

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Trust me when I tell you that our government knows exactly from where such attack came from and who were the perpetrators, now remember also that a nation that US has been providing money for the last two years to finance a coup, their source of financing those attacks that are killing their own people falls on the backs of our own government sponsor profiteers of war and the we tax payers.

Our nation private and financed military complex is out of control and people around the world are paying for it with their lives, including children.

We Americans should be so proud this days.

Originally posted by Taissa
Why didn't we punish Israel for dropping white phos on the Palestinians? Why are we not punishing Obama for drone strikes that have killed innocent children?

Are the lives of the children in Pakistan any less than the lives of Syrian children?

The layers of hypocrisy are astounding.

Or what about the depleted uranium weapons that that the US ended up killing and deforming mostly civilians in Iraq with?

These rebels are murdering civilians left, right and center, for no reason other than to spread their satanic terror and destruction.

Look at this, disregard the leaked Britam email, those were found out to be fake, everything else is straight though.

www.youtube.com...

And once again, why the need to utilize such violent, bloodthirsty mercenaries in order to supposedly help the people? When they are the ones killing the people off?

Does any of this make sense to the people supporting this invasion?

If it really was the case that Assad just felt like killing his own people, then YES, we should get involved. But this country's government are obviously the aggressor here. Throwing off the Assad regime has been the plan for several years. The same for all other middle eastern countries.

People always seem to think that EVERYBODY kills each other in the middle east and has been doing it for years. What people don't know is that any country that the US has gotten involved in, that killing has increased, if ti ever took place at all.

Originally posted by burntheships

Who are we to act upon? Syria? We are to demand action....what action?
A military action? A drone strike? A missile strike? Why?

If not drones, and only missiles, why?
What is the target area? What areas are off limits?
And what is the strategy behind those decisions?

By action,
I mean we should demand military action to get answers.

Anything is traceable,
even dirt.



The thesis is this: Stop reacting to situations,
and take control of the situation directing it's
outcome.




1) Demand Congress take action

Not vague action, not talking points action,
but specific action.






2) We should demand Chemical Sniffing robots.

chemical sniffing robots to be used by the army





3) Demand full and thorough investigation
down to the mining operation where the
ingredients, used to make the chemical,
were taken out of the ground.




4) Hold everyone involved accountable
and start indictments if it was any of our
employees.

And by employees, I mean Military, Civilian, or Political.




5) Profit!




Those are just some Ideas, I'm asking for more.

We should own this entire operation and
come up with our own benchmarks.
Is crowd sourcing the solution
really that bad of an Idea?


Mike

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

Trust me when I tell you that our government knows exactly from where such attack came from and who were the perpetrators, now remember also that a nation that US has been providing money for the last two years to finance a coup, their source of financing those attacks that are killing their own people falls on the backs of our own government sponsor profiteers of war and the we tax payers.

Our nation private and financed military complex is out of control and people around the world are paying for it with their lives, including children.

We Americans should be so proud this days.

Well said,
and I mean that.
This is why I want you with us on this.

I don't want the Chemical Weapons Attack to be something that
we talk about for a couple of weeks and then move onto the
next big crisis in a never ending cycle. No! I want to take up this
cause and keep it, and keep at it. So that we can get to all the
things you mention above as well. In my opinion it is the never
ending cycle of crisis after crisis that keeps us from solving any
of them. We should "own" this one and through it, we can
begin to solve all the others as well.


Mike

reply to post by burntheships

k, lets say for a moment you are right, and for the sake of discussion,
we need to now demand action, as opposed to the moral depravity of not acting.

Who are we to act upon? Syria? We are to demand action....what action?
A military action? A drone strike? A missile strike? Why?

We’d need more intelligence to answer that. We don’t get the morning briefing but we should all have enough sense to know that bad people do exist in Syria (a lot) and we can take those people out.
Those are the people.

If not drones, and only missiles, why?
What is the target area? What areas are off limits?
And what is the strategy behind those decisions?

See answer 1.

Now, also if it is missile strikes, when we have the capability to do
much more with presicion, then why not a strike from orbit?

Who says we have more precision that way?

And, again...who are we to strike with military action?
Syria? Al Qaeda? Why Syria and not Al Qaeda?
Why Al Quada and not The Rebels. Where is the proof
of what chemicals were used, by whom? Where is any proof
except videos from facebook?

John Kerry said so! Obama said so! This is a Vietnam Vet and a Civil Rights leader!!!! What more do you need???

So you think you have the why down, well then who, when. where?

Oh, and then what???

IRAN! And any other supporter of radical Islamic terror.

Syria is going to cower? All of the other nations who are not U.S. allies
will cower? Al Qaeda - whom was defeated once, will cower?

Nobody expects cowering…we have enough bullets to keep shooting. Eventually it will take only a battalion and a few CIA and Spec Ops units to keep things tidy.

And, what makes chemical weapons a moral outrage, as opposed to drone strikes?

With Chemical weapons its indiscriminate and there is MUCH suffering in death. Drone/targeted strikes are much more precise (like liberals want); it happens suddenly and for the intended victims.

reply to post by mikegrouchy

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

By action,
I mean we should demand military action to get answers.

Anything is traceable,
even dirt.

I agree we need to demand answers.
Not to be contrary, but your thread has a different title, but if what you really
are looking for is that we demand answers, agreed.

However, your thread could be dangerous to a person who would
be influenced by the perception chart, and then would demand
a military strike based on emotion. But, I gave you a star, and now
am flagging the thread, i think the discussion is warranted, we need
to think deep on this one. I too am questioning everything.

I can agree with should demand answers.

I wont be holding my breath, from an administration that has lied
about dozens of things not the least which is Benghazi...
too long a list but a few ...

danfromsquirrelhill.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by burntheships

 

And, again...who are we to strike with military action?
Syria? Al Qaeda? Why Syria and not Al Qaeda?
Why Al Quada and not The Rebels. Where is the proof
of what chemicals were used, by whom? Where is any proof
except videos from facebook?

John Kerry said so! Obama said so! This is a Vietnam Vet and a Civil Rights leader!!!! What more do you need???

Well seabag, you know I love ya....but that made me laugh.
Honestly, I know this must be sarcasm.

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by burntheships

 

And, again...who are we to strike with military action?
Syria? Al Qaeda? Why Syria and not Al Qaeda?
Why Al Quada and not The Rebels. Where is the proof
of what chemicals were used, by whom? Where is any proof
except videos from facebook?

John Kerry said so! Obama said so! This is a Vietnam Vet and a Civil Rights leader!!!! What more do you need???

Well seabag, you know I love ya....but that made me laugh.
Honestly, I know this must be sarcasm.

It was.....

And you've seen my stance on this.



But the OP has a point....which I diligently tried to illustrate.

What if YOUR/MY kids wake up 15 years from now and wonder why WE (their parents) were so damned concerned with our conspiracy theories to rid the world of sick F’s? I don’t want to live with that….and we know there are some sick F’s over there.

Originally posted by seabag

But the OP has a point....which I diligently tried to illustrate.

Yes, I understand now with some clarification from the OP.

Sometimes a person has to look at all the angles to really
understand something as deep as this. And, I think this issue
is pretty deep, not to mention what is at stake.


And yes, I agree about the ME, its a real hotbed of nasty stuff....

reply to post by mikegrouchy

I would never argue against the fact that things are more than horrific inside of Syria. But I do not think that military intervention will make anything better(but it will happen at some point). The Moonscaping of the middle east seems to have already been written in stone; I see black clouds on the horizon.

Who cares about Syria when all the sea water in the world is going to be exposed to radiation from fukushima

The biggest issue in the world right now is fukushima, please Obama and the USA help Japan solve this issue.


Why people don't understand the problem at fukushima as the #1 issue in the world?

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

i'm always fascinated by some lunatic notion thats been ill thought out by some teenager. you need to broaden your media coverage and rinse your neurons.




History will look back at us.




It won't see all the posturing and
political games,

It won't see the media spin machine
and the day We The People started to resist it


It won't see that the public,
for the first moment in decades,
was feeling that they were getting
some control of their own country back.




No.




History will only see one thing.

That we dropped the ball,
when it came to an escalation of chemical warfare.



If we fail to act,
History will judge us
as failures as well.




Me must not just act,
we must demand action.

Don't let this be the Governments' idea,
don't let this be the Media's idea.

Make history see that at this moment
we shed our media controlled psy-op conditioning
and at that exact moment
we made the right decision
for the future of all human kind.


Why we SHOULD [color=gold] demand military action on Syria


/thank you for reading

Mike

Originally posted by xoom1
Who cares about Syria when all the sea water in the world is going to be exposed to radiation from fukushima

The biggest issue in the world right now is fukushima, please Obama and the USA help Japan solve this issue.


. [color=gold] Why people don't understand the problem at fukushima as the #1 issue in the world?

I do.
And I have the solution.


The original nuclear reactors designed by the US Navy
had shielding that prevented any core melt down from penetrating.
General Electric decided to sell a much larger version, but they
only increased the shielding thickness by the same amount.

The problem is that the heat increases exponentially not linearly.

Three mile island, Fukushima, practically every leak except for
Chernobyl is the fault of the Sales People at G.E. That company
should be made to pay for the clean up and replacement of
their faulty products.


But where were you Xoom1,
back when I was discussing all this, and why are you here
now trying to derail the topic like some Johnny-come-lately,
and are not even armed with solutions to the oh-so-critical
topic being interjected here?


/from crisis to crisis we go .... where it stops .... nobody knows


Mike

I fear that now the people are starting to see the truth and take action, the PTB will soon have a new 9/11 this time with gas. Cant have the pheasants revolting can we.
People i REALY fear a new 9/11

why are you illustrating the no war issue when it should be the WE KNOW THE CHEMICAL ATTACK WAS A FALSE FLAG ISSUE?

NO TO WAR NO TO WAR ?????????

just what is the issue ?

Obama's vacillation on this issue has already got the Israelis spooked with respect to Iran. If the U.S. won't do anything about Syria, what hope is there they'll get into a full blown conflict with the Iranians? Buckley's.

So, it's a catch-22: Bomb Syria and likely do nothing but maintain stature 'world police' and likely widen the conflict -or- do nothing and embolden the Arabs resulting in Israeli going it alone and, again, widening it to a regional conflict.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


A good fifteen years I've lurked on this site, taking in an almost optimum filter of truth and propaganda that is the ATS community. I've been a silent observer of the community, an unjoined member in the search for truth. I appreciate all extremes of ATS as being an excellent balance leaning towards truth. I've seen you bicker, and poke each other. Insult and praise. Evolve and deny. I can mark a liberal three times I wished to honestly voice my opinion on the confusions, but I hold much faith in people's ability to recognize the patterns and the ploys, all in their own time. One man's pace is not the others and all truth is eventually known. Although I've feared greatly that we were letting it all fall through our fingers. That fear that we must all hold, no matter the denomination: that chaos and disharmony is winning. I've had a new feeling of late, one I have never felt. I had felt it superficially before, yet it was always tainted by experience, by knowledge of the monster man can be. By what history tells us of where we have been and how we were used to get there. In the past the feeling was taken with a spoonful of salt, as all truth pills are taken. That feeling is hope. Hope that the Dungeon Master rolled low. That the mighty have stumbled by the sight of their goal within their reach.

So, thank you Mike for being the catalyst I suppose, though I cast a scornful look in your direction for motivating me to make this signal, but you just may be on to something. I apologize for the format of this post, it is my first online presence in a decade.

Honor no man before truth. Honor no truth before peace!

Contain and Observe
Two major super powers (Russia and USA) have personnel and infrastructure in the region. Both an ally of either side of an internal third party conflict. Both stand strong against the use of chemical weapons. Both have been known to hold joint training exercises. Unite the two in Perspective as they have already voiced the same argument, 'chemical weapons should not be used.'

DEMAND:
Syria be quarantined, nothing goes in or out expect humanitarian aid. Elicit the compliance of the quarantine from neighboring nations: they are either with the world or against it on this point. A joint peace keeping exercise to contain and enforce:

DEMAND:
Complete and total ceasefire in Syria. With the weight of Russia on Assad and the weight of the USA on the rebels, a ceasefire is plausible with the weight of the People on congress and the Kremlin. Noncompliance means humanitarian aid ends, the quarantine maintained without exception. The war starves itself out... Harsh? Is a tourniquet that saves a patient a harsh procedure?

With that enforced an independent investigation to answer one simple question: Who was responsible for the attack?

Who should lead such an investigation? There lay the rub.

We must move into uncharted lands. The lands of philosophy and wistful thinking. A new Nation without boarders that already exists. It's citizens might not know each other, or even that they are a patriot of that nation. It's constitution has been writ in the blood of the past, it's philosophy galvanized when one is awoken to it.

... Honor no man before truth. Honor no truth before peace.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


History will look back at us watching 100,000+ people die in a civil war, and then only judge us when we refused to add to the bloodshed after 1,500 people were killed by a certain type of weapon?

Faulty premise.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

History will look back at us watching 100,000+ people die in a civil war, and then only judge us when we refused to add to the bloodshed after 1,500 people were killed by a certain type of weapon?

. [color=gold] Faulty premise.

It might seem that way.

Historians are great at hiding bodies
and selectively focusing on long range themes.
Chemical weapons, and their use, since WW1 fits.


Look at our own Civil War,
people know more readily the name of one of the
first iron ships used than any of the casualties at
Antietam . Hell some people can tell you how
many iron ships there were, but ask them what
the casualty count of Gettysburg was, even which
battle had the most casualties.

Faulty premise or not. In my opinion it = reality.

/ I am not happy saying this. I am pragmatic.


Mike