Why we SHOULD demand military action on Syria

Originally posted by peter vlar

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

This Country,

The United States of America

Is our house.


Central and South America are

our front Yard, Canada the attic.


The rest of the world is our Back Yard.





If the reader cannot see it that way,
they maybe this isn't their house,
maybe they are just a hireling,
visitor, or servant.

Only the reader can know for sure.

Mike

Not at all true. It's not our house or yard. We're just leasing the place. We've bed here awhile sure but even Rome was eventually evicted from their palace in the hill. We can't expect that we're going to be here as infinitum and can run across the world belter skelter with no consequences. Imperialism works for a short time but you always end up losing the house and kids at the end.

It is quite the feat of mental
gymnastics to morph our
house into a caution against
imperialism.


Turning a blind eye to the
use of Chemical weapons
is tantamount to approval.


If I want to hear someone
characterize things just for
laughs I'll turn on the Daily
Show.


I want to hear some ideas.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy

What is stopping us?

that answer would include an awfully long list.

what does proving you wrong have to do with any of it ?

i, for one, do want to know the whole truth, regardless the implications and i certainly don't trust the UN.

i just don't know how to get it done.
hence, my deference to those with experience and a plan.

lobbing missiles at random targets is not a 'plan' to end chemical warfare, is it ?

Originally posted by mikegrouchy


Turning a blind eye to the
use of Chemical weapons
is tantamount to approval.

No it isnt.

Especially when it was probably us that supplied it in the first place. Thats tantamount to approval.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

What is stopping us?

that answer would include an awfully long list.

what does proving you wrong have to do with any of it ?

i, for one, do want to know the whole truth, regardless the implications and i certainly don't trust the UN.

i just don't know how to get it done.
hence, my deference to those with experience and a plan.

lobbing missiles at random targets is not a 'plan' to end chemical warfare, is it ?

How about a Trial?


We could demand the army go in and kidnap a bunch of rebels and Syrian soldiers
overnight,
and put them on trial.




How about a chemical sniffing bot from NASA?

We could comendere a probe and send it in to do tests,
get some spectral analysis on the chemicals exact make up.




How about declassifying all the data?

We could demand that this is too important to play secrets
with and that classifying this data is the same thing as
aiding and abetting a known felon.








Why isn't anyone else coming up

with ideas!? Wake the # up!


Mike

Originally posted by OneManArmy

Originally posted by mikegrouchy


Turning a blind eye to the
use of Chemical weapons
is tantamount to approval.

No it isnt.

Especially when it was probably us that supplied it in the first place. Thats tantamount to approval.

No tantamount about it.

If that is the case,
and if it is I _want_ to know it,
then that is when we start indictments.

Justice be done, though the heavens fall.


Mike

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Are you in Syria right now Mike? Follow-up question, who do you think used the chemical weapons? I say the rebels, and if that's the case, the place to go to stop it is D.C.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


I outlined some ideas in a speech here, mine is the first speech:



If you want to get involved with any of that, email me at [email protected] and I'll put you on our mailing list. Hopefully I'm not breaking any forum rules here.

reply to post by mikegrouchy

a trial is for after the 'evidence' has been collected, isn't it ?
maybe you could expand on the point of kidnapping syrians first ?

i doubt i would be against using robotics for such a mission, if possible.

"commandeering a probe" is a bit too general, don't ya think ?

declassifying WHICH data ??

We could demand that this is too important to play secrets
with and that classifying this data is the same thing as
aiding and abetting a known felon

i totally agree but how do we get the 'evidence' ???

ummmm, as far as aiding and abetting goes, isn't that what we're already doing by supplying munitions & intel ?

how do we force our government lackeys to achieve such goals when we are always perceived as the enemy ?

if we are supplying the rebels and they are the victims of said attack, perhaps they should collect the evidence and deliver it to a US representative of our choosing ??

reply to post by Honor93


Honor93,

after carefully considering your responses to me, I think you have a valid point in regards to the way in which I worded my statement about fear. I think you are correct in many ways. However, hesitation is fear; waiting is patience. I believe that there is a difference there, hence the need for the two words.

However, you are wrong on some points, and I think you know which ones. Because the points you were right about you were conclusive. The points on which you were wrong, you were grasping, and you felt it.

Reasonable. But at least when you saw me talking, you started to see Mike as reasonable. Interesting, isn't it?

Mike,

People aren't interesting in the work. No one wants to get their hands dirty unless someone else gets their hands dirty first, and somehow motivates them. In their minds, everyone that tries to get their hands dirty becomes discredited and destroyed, so therefore, if that is the path they must take, they're unwilling, because of fear.

That is the bottom line.

I don't know why they don't see that. It's ultimately fear. Everyone is afraid of what they say, what they do. Tip-toeing around and saying a little of this and that instead of spitting it out.

I tell you this for a truth:

The government is more willing to hire an extreme person from either angle, than a mediocre person with no angle - even if that person is extremely in the direction of opposition. (Or does the photo of Kerry and Assad not prove this... or presidents with enemies or dictators, or I don't know, all of history...)

If you plan on staying lukewarm, you will be spewed out.

If you are hot, or cold, then you will be useful somehow.

It means taking a firm stance in your heart, in your mind, in your soul; and then acting upon that stance.

You will receive close to utter hell for doing it. I know. I know it more-so than the bullet dodgers. When someone shoots at your flesh, it's somewhat offensive, but more just scary. But when someone constantly shoots at your soul, your character, your personality, your intellect, your desires, your dreams, your heart, every minute you breath; now that is what you will suffer when you finally take a stance. And if you find yourself suffering these things, know that you are finally in the right. That's how it works.

Just like the flesh must be stressed and strained and practically tortured to become a massive, ripped, agile beast, so also does the spirit need to undergo in order to become a brilliant, quickened, and lively, genius and leader.

Do not be afraid. Pick a side. And fight with all of your heart. Do it.

I know a moderator came in and warned everyone. Notice what the mod said, that it's no longer fun playing in the sandbox when people are throwing rocks outside.

So we are little kids here bickering and nothing means anything here, and if you don't play good then you can't be in the sandbox.

I know that's not what the mod intended, but ... maybe that's the truth?

Or, maybe even speaking here at this forum, which grows in popularity as people become more privy to alternative news sources..

You know, I am a human being here. And I know most of you are, too (except for tanka, according to his/her own words). Our thoughts and feelings do indeed matter. But you've all become convinced that you don't matter; and you call anyone that thinks that they matter sociopaths or egomaniacs.

So be it, I'll be a sociopath or egomaniac, to you, by your definition. But I'm a free human being, in my heart. And what I say matters. And what I do matters. And what I say and what I do, even by myself in the closet, is recorded forever in time. If a time machine is ever invented, one could theoretically go back in time to see me in the closet voicing or doing whatever I said. What has happened has ALWAYS BEEN.

The same goes for you.

And it was always going to happen. Constantly complaining that it happened is equally as pointless. But learning not to allow it to happen again, now that is wisdom.

Mike is 100% correct. The media is saying that we should not attack. ALL OF YOU AGREE THEY ARE LIARS.

It is very, very, very simple math. Do the opposite of what the media says, and you will be performing the truth!

Well, for the moment. Until they manipulate us into showing us the truth and hoping we will think it's a lie and causing us to act in opposition to what they claim is the truth in all irony. The enemy is using fake after fake after fake before he strikes with an uppercut right at our chin. It will seem as though we were lifted off our feet by our chin because a boulder erupted from the ground. Liquid warmth all over our chin, our neck, and then falling into our eyes as our head rolls back. The sting will cause us to be blind. We will be helpless on the mat.

Unless we charge!

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

Originally posted by FlySolo
reply to post by mikegrouchy

 

What?

All I'm saying is look at the bigger picture. So if you've done other research then you should know about the pipeline right?

Lets not make this about me shall we.

The issue in this thread,

are the use of chemical weapons
the historical significance
can we come up with better solutions
or are we going to let TPTB play us against each other

Mike

I'm not making this about you. I'm just asking a simple question. Do you know about the pipeline?

We should demand accountability honesty integrity and ethics from our elected leaders.
We should demand open and democratic elections untainted by ballot fraud and insider deals among candidates.
We should demand full disclosure and open presentation of the facts in all aspects of government and the running of our country and its economy.
We should demand our leaders and top government officials be of the highest character and at least average intelligence.
We should demand the media not politicize the presentation of news and give them full access to the highest levels in politics and business.
We should demand the courts make laws not politics.
We should demand secure borders.
We should demand term limits.

reply to post by mikegrouchy

NO!

What we SHOULD do is demand that our governmental representatives do what the hell we put them in office to do - run OUR country properly.

What we SHOULD demand is that our government stay the hell out of OTHER FOLKS' personal problems.

What we SHOULD do is demand that these goddamned chairborne commandos lead the way, advance the front lines with their OWN precious bodies, and see who the hell is so eager to follow their stupid asses into the fire. Let them get their OWN hands bloody first.

This ain't MY fight, nor is it my son's fight.

What we SHOULD demand is that our government set the example in doing away with chemical weapons first. Do it HERE first, show the rest of the world how it's done. They can start by ceasing to teargas (a chemical weapon) dissidents and protestors. They could start by outlawing pepper spray in government hands.

What we SHOULD demand is that our government set it's OWN house in order, and leave the Syrians to deal with their own headaches.

What we SHOULD demand is that our government STOP supporting our goddamned enemies in this war, much less agitate for assisting them FURTHER by bombing their opposition FOR them.

You know, I've got nothing against fighting and killing MY enemies. Just give me a gun and point me at them. DO NOT, however, try doing that and convincing me that I should fight the enemies of my enemies and thereby make my enemies stronger. You won't like the direction that gun you issue to me gets pointed if you try that.

We hire our government (yes, they are hired hands, and only that - subject to being fired as well) to fix OUR messes and run OUR country. We don't hire them to run around the world stirring #.

Let McCain and Kerry lead the goddamned way. put THEIR boots on the ground in Syria first. I'd pay good money to see THAT!

reply to post by nenothtu


I'm all for what you said.

When there is millions in that region dead, new overlords Russia and China, I dont want to hear boo diddly on where were you America?

Because....

If America does nothing, they hate America.
If America does something, they hate America.


Close Americas borders, Adopt Mexico's Immigration laws, send the UN to some new Headquarters, preferably Russia, and stop ALL Foreign aid to any and every Country.


America is not Morally superior, nor should it be. Lets take care of our own.

I will not demand any military action from my country. I won't gladly send my sons and neighbors' sons overseas to fight, what? What would we be fighting? Answer that question, please. In this day and age with instant information the people know better than to buy what the media, the government is trying to spoon feed us. Hopefully we are beyond that stage and know when to question the BS. What is there to gain and who gains what? It's not our soldiers, our warriors, our children who will gain. Try telling me different.

Since US drew a red line, they have to act. If not, Iran is laughing all the way to nuclear weapons.

Thanks to the information age, people have becoming more educated and thus not believing in magic skydaddy's living above the clouds.
Religion is being replaced by the politics of fear, terrorism and various bogeymen- like commies and Muslims as the main propaganda tool to fool the masses into providing cannon fodder for the military industrial complex. In reality these wars are about control of resources, territory and corporate interests.

Here is factual well researched documented evidence that NATO allies and Turkey are utilizing Wahhabi / Takfiri terrorists and assorted criminals to achieve GEO Political aims.

Feed your head and stay informed!

Given that the pretext for attacking Syria is falling apart before the public's eyes, why is the US preparing to wage war on that country? Who benefits from the ongoing destabilization of Assad's government? What will the Middle East look like if the Sunnis take over Syria? What is Israel's role in this? What do Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia have to gain from a war in Syria? And what does Bandar Bush have to do with all of this? Join us today on The Corbett Report as we discuss these and other pressing issues as the world stands on the brink of yet another US-led Middle Eastern military adventure.

Source

One more thing he could have mentioned is the US sponsored pipeline through Afghanistan, made to bypass Russia and Iran and the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline. Another project the Washington neocons are opposed to and where the US has threatened Pakistan with retaliations several times. As it is now, the pipeline is half finished, only the Pakistani side of the line is left to be started and both Pakistan and Iran are trying to persuade China to join the project because that would make Washington's bullying pretty much irrelevant.

The US continues to be the biggest terrorist in the world today and the biggest threat to world peace, democracy and freedom in the last sixty years.
The only saving grace being that a good number of Americans are finally waking the fu#& up!

reply to post by mikegrouchy

So according to you that by turning a blind eye to the event, it the same as approving it? Yet one must ask then what does that make the country that assists the other country in both the development of and the acquisition of the raw materials of said components that ends up creating a chemical weapon that is used.

And what does it say when say a blind eye is turned what there is say ethnic cleansing going on, and is afraid to say what it really is, genocide.

Or how is it that one country can be condemned and isolated for developing a weapon of mass destruction, while another country is just given a slap on the hand?

That sounds like a double standard.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


It is a lie, it has nothing to do with chemical weapons. And if they care so much about genocide what about the millions killed in Rwanda, darfur, Somalia, Ethiopia or Sudan? How about the Kachin State, N Korea, Mayanmar and Guinea? Why not bomb those country's?

In an even more blatant case of hypocrisy, both the US and Israel have used white phosphorous in warfare in the last decade. The US deployed white phosphorous against civilians in Iraq in 2004 and Israel did so in its “Operation Cast Lead” in Palestine in 2009.

The US has also used depleted uranium in virtually every country it has fought in over the past two decades.

Meanwhile, the US and its allies are perfectly happy to look the other way when their planted puppet regimes around the world use chemical weapons. The Bahraini government has been weaponizing tear gas, locking down cities and flooding the area with the chemical until many of the inhabitants are debilitated or even dead. For some reason no one is laying out the case for war against the chemical weapons-deploying Bahraini regime.

The simple fact is that this war, like all the others before it, is being waged for the expansion and preservation of corporate interest.

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

This Country,

The United States of America

Is our house.


Central and South America are

our front Yard, Canada the attic.


The rest of the world is our Back Yard.





If the reader cannot see it that way,
they maybe this isn't their house,
maybe they are just a hireling,
visitor, or servant.

Only the reader can know for sure.

Mike

edit on 2-9-2013 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)

yuck.

'if Rome could last 500 years who then will throw the wrench inside our gears?'

Originally posted by mikegrouchy

We The People are not in possession of any evidence
We damn well better wake up and start getting some.

Mike

it sounds like the only evidence you want is that 'assad' used chemical weapons against 'his own people'.

you cannot advocate swift, decisive action based on law and principle and then say that we don't actually know who breached the law and whom broke what principle.

well, you can, but you easily oust yerself.