Islam's Incorruptible Qur'an Is Corrupt

reply to post by Sahabi

my former post was to show what is going on in the middle east.
you used an impolite word towards Koran which I have never used that towards Torah and Gospels. while they are widely mistranslated and altered.

1- Koran is widely proved by crowds. Koran was memorized, written and narrated by public not elites. nowadays Koran is based on the widely accepted one in each era. and it is not anything but the Qira’at of Hafas. so if someone finds a Koran which is not according to the public and widely accepted Koran, this does not mean that Koran is corrupt. The most commonly read is Qiraat Hafas from Asim and who was Asim !?


2-

Indeed, it is We (God) who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We (God) will be its guardian. Koran 15:9

or you can find.

Falsehood cannot approach it (Koran) from before it or from behind it; [it is] a revelation from a [Lord who is] Wise and Praiseworthy. Koran 41:42

are these two verses also corrupt or not, or you believe all the Koran is corrupt !

3-

As we’ve earlier discussed, Ali ibn Abi-Talib and Ubay ibn Ka’b originally included all abrogated verses in their Qur’ans. The standardization of the Qur’an sought to erase the earlier abrogated verses which had become null-and-void. Some notable examples of

as we know Shia's only trust in their imams and some of Sahaba. if Ali ibn abi Talib had believed that the widely accepted Koran is corrupt, now Shia's would have a Koran other than the nowadays Koran. but they only trust in the widely accepted Koran based on Qira’at of Hafas. this is why :
Qira'at of Hafas is based on Asim and :

Asim told me " I heard Koran from no one but Abu abdol alrahman Salami, and Salami had heard that from Ali ibn abi Talib .......................................... -Zahabi (Marefat al Qura al Kebar volume 1)

so Shias only trust in this widely accepted Qira’at (Hafas) which is publicly narrated.
but if someone reads your OP he may conclude that Ali would consider the widely accepted Qira’at corrupt !
this is not true. not at all.

After the Uthmani Qur’an was presented to the public, the Caliph then ordered all full, partial, and fragmentary manuscripts of the Qur’an to be burned and destroyed.

no one presented Koran to public Koran was in public.
many of Sahabas were included in the writing of Koran at the time of Uthman and even Ali approved that.

but the order of verses is not according to the order of their revelations. or there is a difference in commenting about Koran. anyhow majority of muslims were very adequate in conveying Koran to the next generation.

reply to post by MrBotan


well your wrong its pretty clear she was 6 years old. Its also clear Abu Bakr (her father) was not liking the idea of Mohammad marrying his daughter.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Again here.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).

Also here as well

Sahih Bukhari 5.236. Narrated Hisham's father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

As to her father he obviously didnt agree with the marriage but oddly not on the grounds of her age it was on the fact he was his brother making her his niece.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18 Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

So id say its very clear how old she is
However in a similar circumstance the prophet Mohammad refuses to marry because she is his niece figure that one out?

Sahih Bukhari V.7, B62, N. 37 Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: It was said to the Prophet, "Won't you marry the daughter of Hamza?" He said, "She is my foster niece (brother's daughter). "

reply to post by maes2


Don't waste much time here.

This man has studied much , but with the glasses they give him to read.

They don't even question themselves "why their teacher are so mad at Imam ali ?" "why they don't neglect other sahabia like they do about Imam Ali"

This man says he has read Hikmat , but the only thing is not there in his words is hikmat regarding my reply. Pure stupidity is heard from a man who says he is Muslim but he is washing all the believe.




So , you read some books and tried to come and serve these wolves standing behind your doors to loot all over your country ?

Is that how smart you are ?

Or

You thought that these people are going to give you an award. thinking "now that Muhammad is dead , Islam is divided , lets stick to my chance and get a reward"

Or

Maybe you just wanted a good masonic handshake with westerners ? Like Gorbachev ?



www.thenational.ae...





OR

You like to drink wine and do ,,,,,, and be king , because Qur'an is corrupted ?




OR

You want to help Bin Laden with one hand , letting Afghanis be slaughtered and with other hand dance with George bush ?



OR

Hand over Palestine to Zionists ?



So , what is so special about Islam that have encouraged you to be a Muslim ?

Corruption is flowing in Wahhabi leaders , now you say the book is corrupted. Muhammad is dead and no other know what he knew. like second caliph said "ان هذا الرجل لیهجر ". Western govts say you are retarded. There is no hope for you in the religion.

What is reminded of the religion you are claiming to summit to ?

Originally posted by filledcup

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I'll respond to the OP when I have more time. I enjoyed the information you provided and it gives new insights. I look forward to reading more later when I have the time.

Shalom.

Insight

You mean what you wanted to hear ?

i like how you in your sig.. reduce the story of Jesus in the Quran to refer to it as tho it is nothing of significance and should be disregarded.

be ware who the schemers are. surah 19 is dedicated to you!

Oh no.

I didn't change the book.I chose some peace that is from Ummolketab.

The ones who knew Muhammad pbuh like they knew their sons changed their books.

BTW , I appreciate warnings.

reduce the story of Jesus in the Quran to refer to it as tho it is nothing of significance and should be disregarded.

It is from Ummoluketab and this should be regarded in all times and places and religions and sects.

reply to post by mideast

So questioning ones faith means he agrees with the west and the jews huh? I would say its obvious what glasses your looking through. People like you are the problem with Islam thankfully your the exception instead of the rule. And one day youll realize it is you that has been deceived

reply to post by mideast

So questioning ones faith means he agrees with the west and the jews huh? I would say its obvious what glasses your looking through. People like you are the problem with Islam thankfully your the exception instead of the rule. And one day youll realize it is you that has been deceived

reply to post by dragonridr

there are many quotations about the age of Aiesha when she married. you chose the least one. 6. some says she was nine. but there are evidences that she was older that.
all of the children of the first caliph (including Aiesha) was born before the prophecy of Muhammad (PBUH). this is what Tabari one of muslim historians believes. and even there are some other historical evidences which one may conclude that she was 13- 14 or even 19 !

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by mideast

 

So questioning ones faith means he agrees with the west and the jews huh? I would say its obvious what glasses your looking through. People like you are the problem with Islam thankfully your the exception instead of the rule. And one day youll realize it is you that has been deceived

No , it is stupid to say

1. Islam = corruption
2. I am a Muslim
3. I am corrupted

But that must not be the case with you. You wanted to play jewish victim card didn't you ?

This I have to say to you. Zionism is not Jew. Freemasons and illuminatis are not jews. They are followers of Babylon idol worshiping and they demand to get help from the Satans who served in Solomon temple.

Another fact is that ATS is home of Islam bashsers. There is not much to learn by questioning because not any expert visits here.There are many useful websites which can help skeptics learn the truth.

But if you think that questioning is the same word as bashing , then he is questioning really.

reply to post by Sahabi


Here's a video which very clearly explains how the initial codex was compiled in pieces during the prophet and the whole copy within a year and half after his death.

Originally posted by maes2
reply to post by dragonridr

 

there are many quotations about the age of Aiesha when she married. you chose the least one. 6. some says she was nine. but there are evidences that she was older that.
all of the children of Abu Bakr was born before the prophecy of Muhammad (PBUH). this what Tabari one of muslim historians believes. and even there are some other historical evidences which one may conclude that she was 13- 14 or even 19 !

And the main problem in west is not that they produce porno of children in their countries.

The only problem is how they have been taught to stand against what is holding them from their opportunities.In other words Islam which is the main problem that is not surrendering to all temptations they induce.

And whenevr they find some new idea which is aligned with their agenda , they gather like wolves to tear the truth appart.

Just look at other educational threads that are left un-flagged and un-starred because it was not aligned with the truth they wanted to hear.

In fact they want a new version of truth which allows them do what they have been doing before.

Maybe I should start a new thread highlighting Wafa Sultan...
I notice the apologists are ignoring the short 8+ minute video that describes her upbringing and worldview.

No response at all!

Telling.

reply to post by mideast


A helpful full length book...

www.al-islam.org...

^^^The Qur'an: Its Protection from Alteration by Sayyid Sa'eed Akhtar Rizvi


Sermon 145 - Certainly, a time will come upon you after me when nothing will be more concealed than rightfulness, nothing more apparent than wrongfulness and nothing more current than untruth against Alláh (azwj) and His Prophet (saww). For the people of this period nothing will be more valueless than the Qur’án being recited as it ought to be recited, nor anything more valuable than the Qur’án being misplaced from its position. And in the towns nothing will be more hated than virtue, nor anything more acceptable than vice

reply to post by filledcup


Sufis include Omar Kayyam, Rumi, Ibn Arabi, AL Ghazzali, and many Muslin saints who were Sufis.


Check out link
en.wikipedia.org...

Sufism is the true Islam, the Islam of the Prophet

Not this sectarian, exoteric, violent nonsense that exists today
Salafi and Wahhabi like external dogma without the inner jihad.

To practice the Shariah without Tariqah (Sufism) is like trying to walk with one leg.
You end up falling on your face.

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by filledcup

 

Sufis include Omar Kayyam, Rumi, Ibn Arabi, AL Ghazzali, and many Muslin saints who were Sufis.


Check out link
en.wikipedia.org...

Sufism is the true Islam, the Islam of the Prophet

Not this sectarian, exoteric, violent nonsense that exists today
Salafi and Wahhabi like
To practice the Shariah without Tariqah (Sufism) is like trying to walk with one leg.

The question is , who is walking the way. Every sect thinks he is walking the way.

Sufi is like Budhism which is what western governments to turn muslims into.

A complete sheep which is going to surrender all their lands and resources.

Unless you tell me there is some thing such as resistance in sufism.

reply to post by mideast


It’s not political; it’s an esoteric path to the truth for the individual
Rumi said
My heart is capable of any form

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by mideast

 

It’s not political; it’s an esoteric path to the truth for the individual
Rumi said
My heart is capable of any form

Come on, I am Iranian. Type in Persian.

I read poems and I find some very beautiful.

But politic is what matters and should be according the religion to make nations stand for their own.

Muhammad pbuh was a war commander , a messenger , a prophet , a politician and head of Muslim community.

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by filledcup

 

Sufis include Omar Kayyam, Rumi, Ibn Arabi, AL Ghazzali, and many Muslin saints who were Sufis.


Check out link
en.wikipedia.org...

Sufism is the true Islam, the Islam of the Prophet

Not this sectarian, exoteric, violent nonsense that exists today
Salafi and Wahhabi like
To practice the Shariah without Tariqah (Sufism) is like trying to walk with one leg.

The question is , who is walking the way. Every sect thinks he is walking the way.

Sufi is like Budhism which is what western governments to turn muslims into.

A complete sheep which is going to surrender all their lands and resources.

Unless you tell me there is some thing such as resistance in sufism.

I agree with you but the problem is most people do not seek enlightenment. The problem becomes peer pressure and scare tactics we ate seeing it used in this thread.

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by mideast

 

It’s not political; it’s an esoteric path to the truth for the individual
Rumi said
My heart is capable of any form

Come on, I am Iranian. Type in Persian.

I read poems and I find some very beautiful.

But politic is what matters and should be according the religion to make nations stand for their own.

Muhammad pbuh was a war commander , a messenger , a prophet , a politician and head of Muslim community.

edit on 19-8-2013 by mideast because: (no reason given)

This explains so much your hatred of the west and the lack of self thought.Your government tells you what to think under penalty of death.I sincerely feel sorry for your people went from the shah and ended in something worse.No country should allow religion to rule there lives i hold hope that one day the people of Iran realize this.One more thing just because someone's willing to question what they were told is not wrong you need to question everything a.d find your own truths

reply to post by dragonridr


Yes , but enlightenment found in places such as ATS is not stable. Doubt will soon cover the uncertainty and the whole enlightenment is gone soon.That is why people don't seem to find some thing to grab their hands.

ATS is filled with lies and truth mixed , much uncertainty is found here. The sources are most of the time unreliable. And many want to impose their own agenda like they are playing smart.and that is why not much stability is found here.

+ there are many articles and book on the internet which can help you be sure about what you are seeing.

Like I said I do agree with questioning but questioning who ? Some more ignorant and less informed individuals ? Some greedies who are waiting for the resources to be free ?

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by mideast

Originally posted by Willtell
reply to post by mideast

 

It’s not political; it’s an esoteric path to the truth for the individual
Rumi said
My heart is capable of any form

Come on, I am Iranian. Type in Persian.

I read poems and I find some very beautiful.

But politic is what matters and should be according the religion to make nations stand for their own.

Muhammad pbuh was a war commander , a messenger , a prophet , a politician and head of Muslim community.

edit on 19-8-2013 by mideast because: (no reason given)

This explains so much your hatred of the west and the lack of self thought.Your government tells you what to think under penalty of death.I sincerely feel sorry for your people went from the shah and ended in something worse.No country should allow religion to rule there lives i hold hope that one day the people of Iran realize this.One more thing just because someone's willing to question what they were told is not wrong you need to question everything a.d find your own truths

So , how did you found that ?

which part was wrong ?

But politic is what matters and should be according the religion to make nations stand for their own.

Or

Muhammad pbuh was a war commander , a messenger , a prophet , a politician and head of Muslim community

Or you can't cope with that and need explaining.