Islam's Incorruptible Qur'an Is Corrupt

Originally posted by Sahabi

Originally posted by cass1dy09
So this reason alone is why you left the religion?

edit on 18-8-2013 by cass1dy09 because: (no reason given)

No, not at all. The realization of the corruption of the Qur'an was only part of my reason for leaving Islam. Here are a few other reasons: Becoming Muslim: I Did Not Read The Fine Print

Sexism, slavery, intolerance, violence, distrust, hate, and separation... these are not attributes of goodness, but they are attributes of Islam.

Looking within,... knowing myself,... knowing that all of existence is One,... such realizations of awakening have opened my eyes to love and peace

There are certain qualities that men all around the world share and immediately recognize in each other. An instrinsic good within them that exist despite the societies they live in or how their society conditions them to behave.

I believe these inherent qualities are what transcends man from the material world with his base instincts into something truly divine.

I commend you because you have come to the realization, nay to remember the true self that exist in all of us.

I wish you well on your journey back home.

reply to post by Sahabi

I wish you well on your journey back home.

Yes , welcome home , welcome to the liberal wonderland where you can do anything , no one believes in anything , no one is sure what to believe and what to ignore , there are all kinds of candies but don't mind the poison because you will never know.If you are raped , surrender and enjoy , don't fight , don't shout just follow the rainbow , they are all happy there , they are happy with their secret rituals and secret societies , be an elite or try to pretend you are rich.Don't investigate , just follow the media. Don't even think about being independent or we will crush you. Surrender mind , body and soul and they will take you to heaven on this side. You don't have to wait much to get reward of your actions , satan gives the reward in cash.

reply to post by Sahabi


Whether your right or wrong i cant tell you but what i am going to say is that you gave up the religion of God, because you think a few lines were added or taken out?
Even you know that prophet Muhammad(swa) is the last prophet and what he said is true, your gonna give up Jannat for a temporary feeling of im right and your wrong?
Hope you understand what that means especially because you probably know more about Islam than me.

reply to post by charles1952


Hello my brother Charles, thank you for your kind words, interest, and support. If there is anything you would like me to expound upon or clarify, please feel free to ask.

If it's only the recited Qu'ran that's incorruptible, may we go back to burning the paper ones without causing death to people?

This post in the op shows that Ibn Mas'ud's recitation of 92:3 is different than the standard Uthmani Qur'an.

This post of the op shows that Ubay ibn Ka'b's recitation includes chapters, words, and phrases not found in the Standard Uthmani Qur'an.

In the op, I show authentic Islamic traditions (sahih hadith) illustrating difference in recital in This post and that post,... oh, and this one too

Then there was the uproar when some Qu'rans were accidentally burnt after cleaning out a military base

In this post of the op I presented and authentic hadith showing that Uthman ibn Affan, who was Muhammad's third successor,burned all Qur'ans, including the verses scribed in the presence of Muhammad, in order to fully monopolize his own authorized codex. It is ridiculous that Islamic Apologists gloss over Uthman's burning of Qur'ans hand-scribed in the presence of Muhammad, yet go ballistic over the burning of modern, mechanized, and mass-produced corrupted book.

No one should be killing their fellow human over a book, over words, over belief, or over ideas. All of these superficial labels that "define" and separate ourselves grows to the point that we forget that every person on this planet is a brother and sister to our Self. You know what I mean? Our beliefs cause so much division that we totally forget our equality as being simple, fellow human beings to one another. I'm this, I'm that, I'm different, I'm special, I'm better,..... these things cause us to destroy love, peace, compassion, and understanding within ourselves.

This thread is creating an unusual reaction in me, sadness.

"In our lives we have some troubles....
when you worry you make it double!
So don't worry. Be happy."
- Bob McFerrin


May Peace be upon you

Originally posted by ParasuvO
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Everything is corruptible, even in higher realms, it is so obviously corrupted it rivals the Bible and every other book written about Gods that (A) have nothing to do with GOD (B) even then are still being rewritten and changed continuously (C) Are so bloody boring and irrelevant towards anything, that they are easily showing that they contain nothing that would actually help anyone towards any end....except a slowly decaying, continuous cannibalistic state of pure darkness.

When we look around ourselves,... when we look within ourselves,... we see that everything has a quality of change. Whether this 'change' be destruction, death, corruption, decay,... the ending of something is the beginning of something.

That's why the true Tao, God, Existence, Universe, One, All can not be properly or completely understood, expressed, defined, or conceptualized by our relative-subjective and limited human perceptions. How grand is that!? Way more glorious in my mind than religion's (sometimes) limited view of the Most High.

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Sahabi

 

Thank you i thought i knew everything about the history of the area but i must admit im off to verify some new things i wasnt aware of thx again.

Hello there. I'm glad I could share some information. Just out of curiosity, what bit did you find new from the thread? Thank you for the interest

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
The Qu'ran is based on the Christian bible and the Torah (in that it references over 50 events from those books), and as we all know, both are full of hypocrisies, inconsistencies, source censorship, and blatant plagiarism from older faiths.

The Qu'ran is of the hand of men, like all religious texts, and as such it is inherently corruptible as men are all inherently corruptible. Books are written and rewritten to suit the needs of those who use the faithful to their own devices.

The first corruption put forth by the many houses of Abraham has always been the condemnation of the pursuit of knowledge. This stunting of the mind is the first step towards spiritual enslavement.

Religion, by design, is corrupt.

Hello FugitiveSoul.

Have you ever looked into the Egyptian, Babylonian, Sumerian, Germanic, Roman-Greco, Celtic influences on our modern culture and their influences on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam? It's fascinating research. Mankind just likes to share stories, ideas, and beliefs. It's saddening when we allow our ideas and beliefs to spread suffering to others. Personally, I'm confident that we as mankind will someday remember our love for one another.

Originally posted by Willtell
I want to illustrate that Muslims have, to them, all kinds of proof that their holy Book and Prophet are true.

Dude .... The rotation of the earth ... the chromosomes ... the 'mingling of the waters' .... the stages of human development in the womb ... ALL OF IT was known way before the Qu'ran was written. Most of it was common knowledge. The Summerians knew it (heck, their symbol for medicine is the intertwined DNA strand). The Egyptians knew it. India has known it all the way from ancient times. The common person on the street knew about the stages of human development (women miscarried at different stages all the time). There is nothing magical or supernatural about any of what was written in the Qu'ran. And you still haven't explained away the thousands of historical and scientific errors contained in the Qu'ran.

Errors in the Qu'ran about Embryo Development
Heck .. man is created from clay .. no, he's created from mire ... no, he's created from dust ...
The Qu'ran can't make up it's mind.

Originally posted by mideast
Another fact is that ATS is home of Islam bashsers.

Posting FACTS that you don't like isn't 'bashing'. It's just posting facts. I realize that posting facts that expose Islam isn't allowed in Iran. You'll just have to learn to deal with freedom of information if you are going to talk to people outside your country.

reply to post by LevelEleven


Assalaamu alaikum

Did you belong to a local ummah (community)? If so, how was your departure?

For me, it was saddening to lose so many friends. Brothers that used to pray behind me,.. yeah, I kind of instantly became an apostate kafir (non-believer) spreading fitna (fragmentation, problems, and troubles amongst the community).

I too have found this "enlightenment" and "spiritual truth" that you speak of. We all have our own relative-subjective kgnowing which far transcends belief. One Love brother. Peace.

reply to post by mideast

DEFLECTION. The subject is the Qu'ran. It is corrupt. It is in error.
Therefore, it can't be from Allah or God or any other magical source.
How do you explain an 'all knowing' God who dictates thousands of errors in a
supposed holy book? Answer ... God didn't dictate it.

Originally posted by fishwhisperer
Great post OP. I have studied Islam for some time as a non Muslim especially around the origins of Islam. More importantly I have studied the geography of the Koran. In a nutshell, present day Mecca is not the Mecca that Muhammad came from and the analysis shows that Petra is where Mohammad came from. To back this up with one small piece of evidence is that fact that up to 10 of the oldest known mosque's are orientated towards Petra with mosque's built post 715 A.D or thereabouts orientated to present day Mecca. This in itself is enough to suggest that Petra is Mohammads Mecca !! let alone hundreds of other pieces of information backing it up.

edit on 19-8-2013 by fishwhisperer because: spell check

Thanks for the interest!

This is the first I've ever heard of a Petra/Mecca connection. Could you share some information about it? If this theory is correct, how do we account for the Ka'ba being in its present location?

reply to post by FlyersFan

ALL OF IT was known way before the Qu'ran was written. Most of it was common knowledge.

Really? They why did people in the west believed that the sperm contains a tiny human!!! Till just a few centuries back!

Also a lot of assumptions were around even if i agree that the right information was available before Qur'an. how do you explain that only the right information got included in the Qur'an?

Who in 7th century knew that the Universe is expanding?
Who knew about finger prints?
Who knew that asteroid brought water to the earth?
Who knew how the rain happens?
Who knew how the wind is required for pollination?
Who knew that ants can communicate?
Who knew the life cycle of locusts is like an analogy of how dead would be resurrected from graves?
Who knew that the minister incharge of construction for Pharoah was named Hamman when the rosette stone that helped read the hieroglyphs which was a dead language at the time when Qur'an was revealed?
Who knew that lying happens in the frontal lobe?
Who knew that there are unseen things that are created in pairs too? Like pairs of sub atomic particles?
Who knew that Iron was sent down to earth as our solar system is too young to have iron of its own?
Who knew that life started in water?

What is the probability of each of it being included by chance in Qur'an and it being scientifically proven as true later?

I do not expect anything from you. My post is for the benefit of any sensible ones out there if any.

reply to post by andy06shake


Hi there andy06shake.

I too have a suspicion that religions which contain a hierarchy or leader use belief to influence, instead of uplifting, instead of building up, instead of cultivating an indiscriminate spirit of love and compassion.

Even through it all, we can believe however we want, but we must not forget that we're all fellow humans, sharing the same beautiful earth and reality with each other. It's been a long, long time, but we're the same family

Claims of astronomy knowledge in Quran being miracles from God?
ALL PREVIOUS KNOWLEDGE (and most of it in the Quran isn't even right)

ATS Thread - Ancient Summerians Knowledge of the Universe from 6,000 years ago
Ancient Babylonian Astronomy - from 3000 BC
History of Astronomy
Mayan Astronomy
Science in Ancient India
Advanced Science Concepts in Ancient Hindu Literature
Ancient Indian Science
Ancient Egyptian Astronomy

Originally posted by logical7
Really? They why did people in the west believed that the sperm contains a tiny human!!! Till just a few centuries back!

SOME people may have believed that. Not everyone is educated to the same level. The fact remains that all the information in the Qu'ran was already known and it wasn't any kind of 'revelation from God'. It was known.

how do you explain that only the right information got included in the Qur'an?

WRONG

Errors in the Qu'ran about Embryo Development
Heck .. man is created from clay .. no, he's created from mire ... no, he's created from dust ...
The Qu'ran can't make up it's mind.

reply to post by logical7


"Who knew?"

Hello brother, I wish to reply to this before I get to your earlier points.

The mystics, shaman, priests, and mystery philosophies knew these things. Nearly all of their teachings are allegorical or contain double-meanings. The evidence of the depths of their knowledge is in the architecture and mathematical design of the wondrous megaliths, monuments, and temples all around the world. The evidence is in the cultivation of grand thinkers, artists, poets, writers, philosophers, inventors, healers/doctors, scientists, and mathematicians that studied or followed the mystical, mystery, or secret understandings. The evidence of this used to be their "magic", which is now known as science. The new magic is neuro-science and behavioral remodification.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by mideast

 

DEFLECTION. The subject is the Qu'ran. It is corrupt. It is in error.
Therefore, it can't be from Allah or God or any other magical source.
How do you explain an 'all knowing' God who dictates thousands of errors in a
supposed holy book? Answer ... God didn't dictate it.

I just know you and your crew follow your interests and change stance whenever possible

That is a disease and I don't even want to prove you.

Do you even believe in god ? I really doub that , because the god is the great witness and his follower is not living in hypocricy.

Unless your god is present sometimes and sometimes he is absent.

Originally posted by logical7
Who knew that ants can communicate?

They don't talk ... another error in the Qu'ran

But then there are these Amazing Facts About Ants that in contradiction to the Qur'an, ants do communicate using smells, not modulation of sounds. Solomon could not have heard any talk since ants do not produce any.