Americans committed the worst genocide in world history

To be fair most of the Indians were wiped out by small pox from the first Europeans to step foot on this land. Secondly both sides committed acts of War. Thus a lot of Indians killed were killed in war, not genocide, with the exception of events like Wounded Knee and the Sand Creek Massacre. The decline in Indian population can also be attributed to them fighting against each other. Often Americans and Europeans would ally themselves with a tribe of Indians against another tribe.
Also a majority of Indians were killed by Europeans not Americans (after 1776 when America officially became a country) think of all the Indians the Spanish, Dutch, French, and especially the British killed during the colonization of the Americas. These European countries also killed many natives from other lands including Africa, India, Australia, and many other places. They were also busy killing each other.
True Americans weren't kind to the Natives in the 1800's Presidents like Andrew Jackson were extremely tough on them. But it wasn't just Americans that attributed to the decline of the population. Out of that 50 Million I would be surprised if Americans (not Europeans) contributed to more than 10 million of that. Still a staggering number but not comparable to Mao or Stalin.

reply to post by crazyewok


do you deny the math from the start date to the end date listed as being a period of 80 years? interesting .....

and if your argument is so weak so as to need the nazi card then I guess this conversation is over for me......knee jerk reactions and heart string puppetry is just retarded.......

I guess europe gets a free pass for the colonization of the americas.......

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar

 

Admit it: your post is about blaming Americans.

Admit it: you have tunnel vision. Read my OP please, and/or some of my 70 posts.

And unfortunately Usa will only care about stats like these when become part of it. I feel it aint too far from now. Most probably still in my time. Like all great empires they fall when they thought they are too great to crumble.

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire

 

We are not smart individually. I mean, I am, and maybe you are and possibly a few others here and there. But generally? Not so much. And on second thought, take me off that list.

And oh again. It was European pathogens unknowingly spread by the early explorers that decimated most of the indigenous population of the "new world".

If you really buy this bulloni then maybe you really should be off that list. Did 90% of the African slaves die from those "viruses"? No. Did the white people die from "viruses" of the Natives? No. But 90% of the Natives died. A little too convenient for my taste. Btw, who did the studies about deaths and diseases?

Originally posted by tadaman

do you deny the math from the start date to the end date listed as being a period of 80 years? interesting .....

Nope but but in that 80 years astrocitys commited by US troops happened.

Originally posted by tadaman
and if your argument is so weak so as to need the nazi card then I guess this conversation is over for me......knee jerk reactions and heart string puppetry is just retarded.......

Actually its a strong parrell. SS troops were sent into villages to quiet dissent and resistance by massacreing the villagers. Erm thats exactly what US troops did to indian settlements when they got too much trouble. Custer didnt march on little big horn to give the locals presents,pupys,kittens, lollypops and love. And he got what was comeing to him in turn.

Originally posted by tadaman
I guess europe gets a free pass for the colonization of the americas.......

edit on 3-8-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

I never said that! We are just as dirty. Thats my point we are all equally in the wrong and guilty of bad things. No one holds the moral high ground.

reply to post by crazyewok


no one is denying it. But this thread is trying to argue a greater part of responsibility for what happened to the Americas as if the US is the greatest evil to scorch the earth......that is retarded. Europe committed genocide in the americas and in fact all of its global colonies ......man up as you say.


and the strong parallel you imply is yet another example of European barbarity ......where is Germany?

we are a former colony.....don't forget that...we have not.

Originally posted by tadaman

we are a former colony.....don't forget that...we have not.

Your point?

Maybe be a former colony but it still has its rotten history and crimes.

Same as the rest of the world. And stop implying that I don't acknowledge the rest of the worlds crimes.

Originally posted by asmall89

 

To be fair most of the Indians were wiped out by small pox from the first Europeans to step foot on this land. Secondly both sides committed acts of War. Thus a lot of Indians killed were killed in war, not genocide, with the exception of events like Wounded Knee and the Sand Creek Massacre. The decline in Indian population can also be attributed to them fighting against each other. Often Americans and Europeans would ally themselves with a tribe of Indians against another tribe.
Also a majority of Indians were killed by Europeans not Americans (after 1776 when America officially became a country) think of all the Indians the Spanish, Dutch, French, and especially the British killed during the colonization of the Americas. These European countries also killed many natives from other lands including Africa, India, Australia, and many other places. They were also busy killing each other.
True Americans weren't kind to the Natives in the 1800's Presidents like Andrew Jackson were extremely tough on them. But it wasn't just Americans that attributed to the decline of the population. Out of that 50 Million I would be surprised if Americans (not Europeans) contributed to more than 10 million of that. Still a staggering number but not comparable to Mao or Stalin.

"Indians killed were killed in war, not genocide"?
How many prisoners of war did they have?

"Americans weren't kind to the Natives - But I would be surprised if Americans contributed to more than 10 million."
What? "Contributed"?

No - IMO, this was NOT "To be fair".

What is astounding is how quickly people jump on the bandwagon, forgetting any atrocities done to their people.

I am a driver, and I have had people who's ancestry was from India (from Asia), African, South American, etc. And they will get in my car and sitting in back.. When they spoke, if I closed my eyes and never looked at their faces, I would swear that I had a really, really white American guy sitting in the back - but instead it will be an African American, South American, Indian American, or whatever else.

Not only will they sound like the whitest guy you know, but they will be snooty - talk to you in a commanding voice as if they were above you, (because you are their driver) sometimes disrespectfully; all with the same tone of arrogance - the same sort of arrogance responsible for the slaughter and enslavement of their ancestors. They could care less.

This sort of behavior is not exclusive to people of British-European descent. It can become inherent in any people.

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

[No, it doesn't work that way. If your grandparent killed a Native exclusively for his own reasons, then his liability died with him. But we don't know that, do we? What were the (hypothetical) grandfather's motives? Was he encouraged by government policies?

Who gives a rat's a**?
Who cares what his motives were?
no one alive today is responsible for anything
that happened before they were born.

From a psychiatric perspective, have you ever
considered that what is happening to you is called "reaction formation"?

just curious....my family didn't get over here until after the turn of the 20th century. my family suffered at the hands of the English in the early and mid 19th century. so am I supposed to feel bad for the Native Americans that were killed off by people I've never met and am not related to, while also hating the English for what they did to my family a century and a half ago? because.....I don't, and I don't. and I'm not going to cry about either one or run around public screaming about the injustice of it all. I won't bemoan you your right to do that if you want, but stop trying to make me feel bad for not doing it along with you.

reply to post by crazyewok


so we are the same as the rest of the world....yours and this threads point? where is the title even justified after your last comment?

how are we somehow worthy of a special quantity of blame?

at least we settled our differences here....The UK still has part of Ireland and all of Scotland .....and former colonial territories still aren't allowed to prosper without the benefit of their progress being of interest to Europe.....

Native americans have their own nation within our own......what is your point and everyone elses here when they try to demonise the US?

You may be more to blame if your so worried about the Natives here....

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


It is my understanding that when Lewis and Clark first went west and came back there were throngs of natives and that only a few years later when the next white guys went out that way, most of the natives had died from plague. Not so? Please point me to a history book which does not back up this understanding. Do you suggest also that this was not the story in South America?

reply to post by TerryMcGuire


that is factually incorrect ......

Originally posted by tadaman
how are we somehow worthy of a special quantity of blame?

Lol I never said that. Stop putting words into my mouth.

Originally posted by tadaman
.The UK still has part of Ireland and all of Scotland .....

A tad more complicated situation. Not a case of just granting independance and you are a fool to think otherwise. Infact most people would love to see scotland and Northen Ireland go they are nothing but pains in the neck and N Ireland has nothing of value. They are only part of the UK due to 50% of the popluation wanting to remain. Unfortunatly 50% dont. Who do you please?

Originally posted by tadaman
and former colonial territories still aren't allowed to prosper without the benefit of their progress being of interest to Europe.....

And the old US of A is just as guilty....*cough* Explotation of Nigeria *cough*
N

Originally posted by tadaman

 

so we are the same as the rest of the world....yours and this threads point? where is the title even justified after your last comment?

No, we are worse. We had 20 Presidents and their administrations support genocide.

Germany, Russia, and China each just had ONE.

How does 1 compare to 20?

Native americans have their own nation within our own

Have you ever seen a "Native American" passport? I bought a map, it does not show any foreign countries within ours. You live in a dream world.

I only care (perhaps the wrong word) about stuff that happened within a few generations. Say I have a family member who would may have been alive sometime in my life time(father, grandfather, great grand father). And they might have been in a generation that did something evil, perhaps I'll feel something. Outside of that range, I don't feel anything. Why should I? Humans kill humans. News at 11.

Examples of stuff that is in my care basket: Tuskegee syphilis experiment, Japanese Internment Camps, and our current "wars" in the ME.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Then why is native american land off limits to federal and state authorities without PERMISSON?

why do they have all the rights and privileges of a nation except for the need to their own currency or official paperwork?

and I see the stringy and streched out arguments start to be knotted together like some spaghetti mess of loose ideas and fringe associations......all to keep the accusation of the US's greater evil valid somehow.

yet even the accusers here admit we are no different then the rest of the world.....

so this entire thread is still alive for the spirit of malace, name calling, discord and vile blame games.......

you see MY point?

Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by TerryMcGuire

 

that is factually incorrect ......

Once again. Can you suggest a point of reference for me, other than your own say so? A book for instance?