Americans committed the worst genocide in world history

reply to post by frazzle


so because they did not take measures to protect the natives from getting sick, they KILLED them like this thread (which has washed out completely), implies? They didnt do so for every other population. Do you even understand the context of history we are talking about here? People had a life expectancy of half of what you and I enjoy. Native and European alike. Kids went to work at 10 YO doing manual labor and people took horrid care fo themselves. I mean come on, you cant be serious....well...maybe you are.

also that was ONE out break I mentioned. I will not believe that you MISSED the rest of the out breaks over hundreds of years brought by Europeans that effectively killed off 90% of the natives. This is accepted, peer reviewed history. Please. Just please, this is getting to be pathetic.

Your argument also comes FAR short from bringing the blame of the obliteration of native peoples to the feet of the American government or its people. This all just points to prior genocide by Europeans. The US is not going to be Europe´s whipping boy as far as EUROPE´S manner of colonization and brutalization of the Americas......just no.


You can feign ignorance of the accepted, well documented, and known history brought forth by the international community if you like. I will not. Frankly I am just not willing try to look like such a putz on purpose.

Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by frazzle

 

so because they did not take measures to protect the natives from getting sick, they KILLED them like this thread (which has washed out completely), implies? They didnt do so for every other population. Do you even understand the context of history we are talking about here? People had a life expectancy of half of what you and I enjoy. Native and European alike. Kids went to work at 10 YO doing manual labor and people took horrid care fo themselves. I mean come on, you cant be serious....well...maybe you are.

also that was ONE out break I mentioned. I will not believe that you MISSED the rest of the out breaks over hundreds of years brought by Europeans that effectively killed off 90% of the natives. This is accepted, peer reviewed history. Please. Just please, this is getting to be pathetic.

Your argument also comes FAR short from bringing the blame of the obliteration of native peoples to the feet of the American government or its people. This all just points to prior genocide by Europeans. The US is not going to be Europe´s whipping boy as far as EUROPE´S manner of colonization and brutalization of the Americas......just no.


You can feign ignorance of the accepted, well documented, and known history brought forth by the international community if you like. I will not. Frankly I am just not willing try to look like such a putz on purpose.

edit on 30-8-2013 by tadaman because: (no reason given)

If its so pathetic why do you keep coming here and responding? Of course I'm not saying that the thread hasn't tanked for lack of interest. After all, we've got bigger fish to fry these days ~ Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans, Egyptians, Syrians, Yemenis, etc. etc. Still hunting down and killing brown people we don't understand because we don't NEED to understand anyone ~ that part of our heritage has not changed at all, we've still got bigger, better guns than "they" do. And we are, in your estimation, the "poor whipping boy". Oh boy!

And, of course, I'm not saying that tens of thousands of indigenous people didn't die of European borne diseases, which speaks to the filth and disease that Europeans had adapted to over the course of its existence and brought with them to America. Which is not to say that these outbreaks didn't kill a large number of Europeans as well, particularly children, both in their home country as well as the "new world".

Indigenous peoples often commented on how the invaders could be detected long before being seen, just by the smell because bathing more than once a year was considered "unhealthy" and "uncivilized" by Europeans (this is also peer reviewed). Walking petri dishes loaded with yucky stuff and the natives had no immunity to all that filth.

So I don't particularly care whether you call them European, American or the best thing since sliced (white) bread, this continent has been pretty much ruined by a bunch of what's-his-names who came here with gold and glitz on their minds and they did what they did IN the US, not in Europe, and that included a rampage of gratuitous murdering of those who DID NOT succumb to disease so they could get to the gold and the land.

The irony in that is if you look around today, the same people who owned and controlled the gold and land (and slaves and indentured servants) back then still own and control it and you. And they are apparently more than willing to do to you what they did to the natives. In a the more things change the more they same kind of way, now they've got big pharma and big ag to get rid of as many useless eaters as possible, but never discount all those "defense" weapons and hollow points DHS has purchased to take care of any stragglers and belligerents who survive the diseases.

Originally posted by frazzle


No, there wouldn't be a lot more native people here, they'd have been killed in the more overt ongoing genocide, and inadvertent disease would still have been overwritten on the pages of history as the cause because the "winners" need to feel innocent and upstanding.

When I say more people I mean back when Europe first started to colonize the Americas. If there was 10s millions of more Indians I really think we would see at the least different borders.

At some point in time this continuous behavior and the justification of it has to be acknowledged as less injured innocence and more a mindset of flat out stupidity and cruelty.

So yeah, it sucks to be the losers but I know alley cats with more moral turpitude than can be claimed by the winners.

Welcome to the human race....

reply to post by Xtrozero

When I say more people I mean back when Europe first started to colonize the Americas. If there was 10s millions of more Indians I really think we would see at the least different borders.

Don't forget that when the Europeans first started to colonize the Americas, they first offered "friendship" to the natives. Basically they said we're from the government and we're here to help. We all know how that works, but the Indians did not. That's where the forked tongue business came from, it didn't take them long to learn the definition of the word "help".

Welcome to the human race....

You're giving some of the most obnoxious people on earth an easy out by making us all appear to be equally obnoxious when we are, in fact, not. They say we get the government we deserve but that's not really true, we get the government that we're willing to tolerate.

The rulers write laws to control people who don't need to be controlled in the first place and they write those rules so that their most obnoxious selves are exempt from the law. Its been right in front of our faces for going on three hundred years and people still haven't figured it out because, as Cicero pointed out, they look just like us. Now if it was a bunch of Arabs trying to pass sharia law there'd be revolution tomorrow ~ even if we didn't know what sharia law was all about (which most people don't). Do you know what laws are being passed by congress as we speak? Probably not, but the guys writing those laws look and talk and dress just like the rest of us so it must be all for our own good. Right?

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

― Marcus Tullius Cicero

reply to post by frazzle

If its so pathetic why do you keep coming here and responding? Of course I'm not saying that the thread hasn't tanked for lack of interest.

No, it tanked because its original argument that "the UNITED STATES committed the greatest genocide" was empirically debunked. It has, for lack of better words, turned into a rotten blame game of who is worse by those too bored or disillusioned with life to move on to the next factual argument seeing as this one is not conducive to gaining any greater knowledge.

This thread and people like yourself are reaching for straws and making loose associations, all the while ignoring the fact that this threads original hypothesis is completely void of historical fact, context, or common sense. I cant help but call you on your BS. Please prove that the US committed the GREATEST genocide, or make your own "America is evil" thread.

After all, we've got bigger fish to fry these days ~ Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans, Egyptians, Syrians, Yemenis, etc. etc. Still hunting down and killing brown people we don't understand because we don't NEED to understand anyone ~ that part of our heritage has not changed at all, we've still got bigger, better guns than "they" do. And we are, in your estimation, the "poor whipping boy". Oh boy!

I fail to see what civil wars and social conflict in the ME have to do with Genocide in the americas hundreds of years ago, or "our" heritage?

Are you referring to black market sales of weapons to nations in the ME? That is the reason for every civil war and uprising there....in case you are too blind to see that Mr. informed.

If so please explain how the US is the sole responsible party for the worlds black market, since the very name implies a global community selling and distributing weapons with the end result of destabilizing nations so as to create a greater need for weapons.

Europe, China, factions in Africa, Russia, the US, AND MANY MORE, ALL sell weapons on the black market. Is your "OUR" terminology referring to human nature? Humanity as a whole? If so please note that the very concept includes "brown" people....or do you think that "the white man" has got you down....? Really. There is no "brown" people destabilizing the world for heinous ends? 0.o

Do you even know how to read a news paper? your view of global conflict is amazing. How on earth do you ignore the entirety of current events and place "white faces" on the problem......so your issue is race? again....0.o

wow.

And, of course, I'm not saying that tens of thousands of indigenous people didn't die of European borne diseases, which speaks to the filth and disease that Europeans had adapted to over the course of its existence and brought with them to America. Which is not to say that these outbreaks didn't kill a large number of Europeans as well, particularly children, both in their home country as well as the "new world".

LOL, this is just funny.

FIrst of all, it was MILLIONS. If you cant even get that fact right, then you need to have another glass of milk, grow up some and take a look at a grade school history book. If you feel like a big boy now, take a look at some scholarly studies and peer reviewed historical material and realize how that number is just absurd. ONE city in any south american empire could hold tens of thousands.

As far as the "filth" the Europeans adapted to....lol

You do realize that if YOU walked into the old world or the Americas in the period of time we are talking about, you would KILL millions of people just for bringing diseases their physiology hasn’t adapted to. Are you a filthy pig?

You obviously have NO IDEA what you are talking about when it comes to epidemiology. If you go to certain parts of the world, you would need a vaccination just so you don’t get horribly sick and possibly die.

They are not “pigs” where you may be going. Its just that populations and individual people adapt to the diseases they are exposed to slowly over time. You cant just dump someone in another continent and not risk an epidemic because we all have different environments and as such different diseases where we are from. Ok,? you learn something there, or were you just feigning ignorance so as to hate white pigs in general…..

Indigenous peoples often commented on how the invaders could be detected long before being seen, just by the smell because bathing more than once a year was considered "unhealthy" and "uncivilized" by Europeans (this is also peer reviewed). Walking petri dishes loaded with yucky stuff and the natives had no immunity to all that filth.

Yucky stuff? Filth? Dafuq are you talking about?

Hygiene is important yes, and the old world did have issues with hygiene causing disease to fester….but what the hell are you implying here? That native peoples didn’t crap and piss? That they had advanced sewage systems and didn’t have crude operations to dispose of human waste? You do realize that plagues happened all throughout history and everywhere and most are always related to the disposal of waste and garbage.

The Americas had MANY plagues before the Europeans arrived. Again you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Please review a grade school biology text book…..look up epidemiology, the study of epidemics. I fail to see how you should be teaching us anything about it. You are in a position to listen and learn, not preach and proclaim.

So I don't particularly care whether you call them European, American or the best thing since sliced (white) bread, this continent has been pretty much ruined by a bunch of what's-his-names who came here with gold and glitz on their minds and they did what they did IN the US, not in Europe, and that included a rampage of gratuitous murdering of those who DID NOT succumb to disease so they could get to the gold and the land.

I don’t even know how to address this. It is like looking at a collapsed building your suppose to put back together.

“what's-his-names”? In case you weren’t following or refused to, or cant….we were saying that the US did or did not commit the worlds worst genocide. The facts presented are as follows:

The country of the USA, was not even formed until long after the greatest death tolls in the americas occurred, which was during the initial years of European colonization. The numbers of deaths afterwards does not constitute “genocide”….sorry but it is just absurd to imply the contrary.

Also do you think that the EMPIRES in south America were forged by singing and dancing around flowers and lolly pops?

I have studied South American cultures my whole life. Everything about their world was as gritty as the old world. Did you know that before the Spanish arrived in the Americas a civil war was fought in order to establish a new dynasty of rulers in the Inca empire? They killed thousands of the opposition to the new rulers, killed all the scholars and thinkers, and erased and rewrote their history to include the new dynasty as the legitimate ruling family? That is one of many examples of a part of the world which was ripe with war and conflict.

The Aztecs were literally a triple alliance between 3 groups of people. They were late comers to a scene where not a single WEEK went by without a violent assault for slaves, raids for food and raw materials, or just ritualistic warfare for BLOOD. The Aztecs brought some order to the area and just made many innumerable raids by rival groups into organized sacrifice and tribute to a central power. The natives that helped the Spanish did so because they were OPPRESSED by the Aztec empire and longed for the glory days of everyone just running wild raiding and killing each other without a single group always winning.

There is literally to much to list, but you need to get your head out of your ass. The Americas weren’t any better before the Europeans arrived. They had golden ages like everyone else, but since a golden age is always followed by a dark age they too had many low points. The white heritage you seem to think is so evil is actually human heritage. SO I suggest you deal with it somehow instead of thinking it is the fault of one group or race.

Read, read, read, read, and then read some more. The view you have of the American native EMPIRES is so naïve that I dare say you just “get the feeling” of what you say after watching TV for a couple years about it.

The irony in that is if you look around today, the same people who owned and controlled the gold and land (and slaves and indentured servants) back then still own and control it and you. And they are apparently more than willing to do to you what they did to the natives. In a the more things change the more they same kind of way, now they've got big pharma and big ag to get rid of as many useless eaters as possible, but never discount all those "defense" weapons and hollow points DHS has purchased to take care of any stragglers and belligerents who survive the diseases.

What does big pharma have to do with the pre-hispanic world or the age of European expansion into the new world? Have we been subjected to a plague? Are we being rounded up into FEMA camps and being shot in the streets with hollow points?

Just so you know, budgets shrink when the money allotted isn’t spent. That is why even the most dinky and retarded office or business that is restricted by a budget they don’t set, makes sure to spend every penny before the year ends. WHY?, because it is standard practice to reduce a budget if there is money left over, since that means too much was allotted for the job to be completed.

Again, I fail to see what the DHS or its purchases has to do with the subject at hand, but that is what you don’t know and why you are probably living in hateful fear. I am “almost” sorry for you.

You have tried to tie all sorts of nonsense into your argument, and I have realized that you really don’t have one.

You really don’t have a point. You are just butt hurting about the negatives to the US and Europe while opportunistically ignoring ALL the good. This is your soap box and you feel vindicated for spitting vile blame and shame.

Do you feel you have improved the situation somehow when you go on these hateful little diatribes? Are you off the hook somehow and not obligated to do your part because your excuse is that you don’t “opt into the system”…all the while living in a developed country in the west?

It’s funny you posted that quote about a traitor within by Marcus Tullius Cicero. You appear to be too frail a person in honor or truth, and too weak minded by the diluted nature of your convictions, to actually understand what it means and what it is about. I still thank you for it. It was wonderful to read and is really a serendipitous addition on your part..... the irony is just too sweet.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


Better math would be 47 out of 50 is 94%. 94% wiped out.

They need to do that to Congress, not native Americans.

reply to post by tadaman

No, it tanked because its original argument that "the UNITED STATES committed the greatest genocide" was empirically debunked.

There's a clue as to why you can't comprehend history. You can read until the cows come home but supplanting one term with another will always stymie your ability to understand what's actually being said. The title does not say "the UNITED STATES" committed anything, it says "Americans.

The United States Government can set policy, write laws, pass mandates and declare "undeclared" wars, but unless (some) American PEOPLE follow through on those policies, mandates, laws and wars, nothing happens. Other American people may prefer peace and negotiations, but they are always dragged along unwillingly, at least as the wallet of last resort, such as in all of the following more recent "wars" in which neither the United States NOR the American people had been threatened in any way ...

The United States attacked El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 and others. As you can see, many have been double and triple tapped.

Its a mindset, not a nationality. USA, USA, USA, hoorah. And it has always been that way.

Orders of George Washington to General John Sullivan, May 31, 1779

“The immediate objectives are the total destruction and devastation of their settlements and the capture of as many prisoners of every age and sex as possible. It will be essential to ruin their crops in the ground and prevent their planting more.”

Read more at indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com...

reply to post by frazzle


that entire post is a cop out. You are feigning ignorance of the subject at hand. You know damn well that this thread tried to argue that North Americans ......the USA, committed the supposed acts of genocide that have been empirically proven to be false.

So you are saying that it meant people of the Americas? so native americans were being blamed for genocide as well?

HAHAHAHAHA. wow, you really have nothing.

Then you list the history of wars the US has had? What the hell does that have to do with anything?

Should I write in response a bible size list of wars that every other nation and people have fought?

You do realize that there has NEVER, ever, been a period of time in HUMAN history where wars were not fought?

as if that somehow proves genocide somehow.....so you admit you have NO POINT, or argument to say...just random loose associations of "bad things" you are too blind to see speak more to human nature than a single country or people's disposition for peace or "good things".

That is the sorriest and most lame thought process I have seen in a while.

Also you do realize that in most of those wars the US wasn't alone in its efforts. Look up how many of those Australia fought along side us, or the UK, or other European nations. Hell even some former European colonies fought with the US in some of those wars listed.


Humans fight wars....yeah. What the hell is your point? How does that say more about the US more than other warring humans?

So you are above that? You have somehow figured out the secrets to human nature and overcome your human condition, your very mortal coil you have unravelled and laid out level into infinity enough to pass judgement on others? Your truth is so true so as to condemn and judge the entirety of human existence by the beauty of your mind? You can vindicate those you deem worthy and scorn those you do not?

You are an unoriginal, uninteresting, copy of evey other shame and blame dealer.
Your mind is not so brilliant and your soul is not so pure as you think.

You are not better then the rest of humanity you place at your noble feet.

get over it.

Originally posted by tadaman

Trying to make it personal is a waste of time with me. Your opinion is the least of my concerns.

But as an exercise in the art of war and conquest, lets look at how "war" is being done in Egypt and Libya and Syria .... See, if you want to win a war while appearing to be the innocent bystander with only the best of intentions, first you assess the local and regional (or national) disputes of given people and find out who the leaders of those factions are. You and your cronies approach them quietly, one at a time, as a supporter of their side of the dispute to gain their trust, then in an orchestrated way you drive ever bigger chasms between the groups by whatever means necessary until the pot begins to boil. The Brits arm one faction, the French another, the Americans arm yet another faction, the Saudis and the Israelis pull a few of their own famous war by deception tricks and next thing you know you've got Egyptians killing Egyptians, Libyans killing Libyans and Syrians killing Syrians until the governments collapse and you can install your own puppet and suck them all into Bretton Woods and the petro dollar. While the UN impotently wrings its hands behind which they are laughing hysterically because they have an even better plan.

Now step back a few hundred years and you'll see exactly the same tactics used in North America with Brits arming one tribe, the French another and the Americans yet other tribes, riling each tribe against the others with a few dirty tricks and false flags and pretty soon you've got Indians killing Indians while you wax eloquent about how uncivilized they all are for killing each other while your army polishes off the leftovers "to bring peace". So yeah, the Indians fell for it, just like all the other targets have fallen for it right on down the line right up until today.

And guess who else has fallen for it. Americans. Its doubtful that you could find any two Americans who agree on anything anymore. There's nothing left of this country but militant pros and antis. So could there be a revolution to "get the republic" back? Not likely, because that takes cohesiveness.. Civil War? Sure, a really good one is probably being cooked up as we speak, so that when we all lose together, the winner will be global order and a new one world currency to replace Bretton Woods and the petro dollar which are officially on life support.

All I'm saying is it would be beyond stupid to fall for it again. Actually fewer people than ever before are falling for it but even so, PT Barnum wasn't all that far off in his conclusions about fools, especially those who are hooked on Edward Bernays style MSM propaganda.