Just Answer One Question. "Why"?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Here's what I believe in a nutshell...

Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The truth is, Ghandi didn't believe that Jesus Christ resurrected in order to make it possible for all of us to be able to experience eternal life with God/Jesus.

So, what do you believe is going to happen? Will every person preaching good works be resurrected and brought back during the time of the Millennium to come to a mutual understanding of who Jesus was or what? Will everyone who didn't understand who Jesus was be refined with fire like the Old Testament says of the Jews? What are your thoughts on this?

My belief is that everyone whether dead or alive will come to the realization about who Jesus was and what his purpose was on earth, but I'm not going to claim to know what God's definition of "righteous judgement" is until I face it myself to know what comes afterwards.

The bible says in the end times everything that causes sin will pass away. God created everything, that which he created that causes sin will be destroyed. We all at one time sin, thus causing sin so do we all pass away? Yes this is a true statement all who have lived have passed away from the physical to the spiritual. The bible says it is the flesh that causes us to sin, which for everyone does pass away.

However there is a deeper meaning that the church fails to understand because of their dogma. You have to try to understand that nothing I am saying is against Christ or love, so it must only be against dogma. Read the bible for yourself and eliminate the dogma. You don't have to believe me, just read the bible.

The deeper meaning is this, man can become "enlightened", "Born again", in this life. Jesus says we are born of our mother and born of spirit. Jesus came to teach those who would pursue love over religion how to find the spirit. His death and resurrection is a testimony both to God's law and its righteousness, that sin is the only thing punishable by death, and to promise to those of us that could not be sinless like the Christ, that God loved us enough that we would always be forgiven.

The promise of forgiveness is for both those who have faith and those who do not. God loves even his children that don't love him whenever they return to him. Either in this life or after the choice is theirs. The prodigal son.

You can't because you believe the message take ownership of it. You are mistaken as is the church if you think this is what Paul was teaching. Jesus Christ died once for ALL, you cannot take away Grace from someone because of they don't agree with you. Grace is God's gift and only he can decide how much of it to show to any man. But the promise always remains, and Paul says that we should continue to love those who don't believe.

Telling someone that they won't receive God's Grace for believing what you believe makes you either God or a liar. Grace is free; no one can do anything to earn it. If you feel it, it was a gift from God. If you do not feel "unconditional love & forgiveness", you must look inward and believe in yourself. Because God does love you unconditionally and offers you complete forgiveness.

Believe in love, pursue love and worship love. You WILL at minimum find love.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

5. All sin is forgiven, based solely on the fact that God unconditionally loves you.

That's not what the Bible says. You must consign your life and destiny to "God", as well as believe in Jesus, in order to earn your salvation. The grace of Jesus only applies to believers and those who have purchased the premium package - that is to say, signed over the rights to everything they are.

No the bible actually says that ALL will be untied to Christ in the end. At that you can choose to find love now, by simply obeying the command to love others, or you can wait tell you die to figure this out. For those who refuse to figure anything out because of their love of money and negative emotions, they will live with their demons (negative emotions) in hell for as long as they want to hold onto the negative emotions that keep them in hell.

I am a Universalist so I believe that those who believe in hell and teach hell do in fact exactly what Christ predicted. They condemn themselves to live in a world of hell (negative emotions) by the fact that they condone sin, they teach "original sin". The people go to men who teach them it is ok to sin a little, because they were born to sin a little. You cannot possibly escape hell if you believe you must sin even a little. So it is likely in my opinion that all modern day Christians will indeed meet Christ when they die, just like they expected.

But for me I have chosen to obey his message and he has come to live "In" me in the present. I have already met the Christ; he is now a part of me as I have become a part of him, through the power of love. I have forgotten the doctrine of "original sin" so I could remember that I am a son of God.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Here's what I believe in a nutshell...

Philippians 2:9-11

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The truth is, Ghandi didn't believe that Jesus Christ resurrected in order to make it possible for all of us to be able to experience eternal life with God/Jesus.

So, what do you believe is going to happen? Will every person preaching good works be resurrected and brought back during the time of the Millennium to come to a mutual understanding of who Jesus was or what? Will everyone who didn't understand who Jesus was be refined with fire like the Old Testament says of the Jews? What are your thoughts on this?

My belief is that everyone whether dead or alive will come to the realization about who Jesus was and what his purpose was on earth, but I'm not going to claim to know what God's definition of "righteous judgement" is until I face it myself to know what comes afterwards.

Why not the OT predicts a Messianic Age and the NT predicts that ALL will come under Christ. Both the OT and NT agree, there comes a time when all men love one another, for the purpose of all. And then God who is Love will live with us. Do you see the bible predicts a time in which love will live in all men.

The bible teaches universalism, there is no doubt in my mind.

We are all sons of God, God loves us all unconditionally, God gave us free will, God forgave us before we were even created for using are free will against our brothers and sisters, which is against his will.

God continues to wait patiently "so that none will be lost" for us to learn to love one another so that he can make his home here within all men. - This is the Good News - God/Love will never give up on us.

This is what the book you say you believe in teaches, why not spread the "good news" and end religious separation?

reply to post by sacgamer25


So you are suggesting that once one knows love, to go against what said person knows of it is in fact blasphemy of the spirit?

Which is that which can not be forgiven in this life or the life to come...

So if we make a mistake in the passion of a particular moment... there is no point asking for forgiveness, because it won't happen...

Effectively making the lords prayer... incorrect...

Is that what you're saying?

You know there is great wisdom in having the ability to admit when you've made a mistake...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

So you are suggesting that once one knows love, to go against what said person knows of it is in fact blasphemy of the spirit?Which is that which can not be forgiven in this life or the life to come...
So if we make a mistake in the passion of a particular moment... there is no point asking for forgiveness, because it won't happen...
Effectively making the lords prayer... incorrect...
Is that what you're saying?
you know there is great wisdom in having the ability to admit when you've made a mistake..

So all one has to do is be disengenuous (as we should) regarding FACT (because we have no idea in the first place). We make mistakes of passion and have no idea why? Who forgives who, me to Gkod/God or to me for being a believer in a No Thing that promises me an afterlife? Im here GROSS matter, I bleed I hurt emotionally I am a being left out in this wilderness of confusion and I have the GIFT OF PRAYER. REALLY:, a great help as in I have no idea whom I supposed to speak to. I would say COMPASSION for/OF God is the key salvation, (maybe as AfterInfinity said it pictured it eloquently AS A KEY) SAYS IT ALL.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


The point being... we make mistakes... and we're not damned for doing so... Mind you Karma will catch up to one who makes said mistakes, but that is not the issue here...

Forgiveness IS divine... and while I know Sacgamer's intentions are good, he choses to attempt to explain away his error...

I know love, I can define it in one word... Selflessness, yet just like everyone else I make mistakes... as im sure he does as well...

According to the gospels we are forgiven if we forgive... We are shown mercy if we show mercy...

We get what we give in every situation in our life... We are NOT perfect in our actions...

But we try as best as we are able...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

So you are suggesting that once one knows love, to go against what said person knows of it is in fact blasphemy of the spirit?

Which is that which can not be forgiven in this life or the life to come...

So if we make a mistake in the passion of a particular moment... there is no point asking for forgiveness, because it won't happen...

Effectively making the lords prayer... incorrect...

Is that what you're saying?

You know there is great wisdom in having the ability to admit when you've made a mistake...

edit on 9-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

No because even the "enlightened" can make mistakes, by your own argument you have shown me the truth.

If the "enlightened were to make a mistake in passion" if they can admit their mistake than they can learn from it. And at some point every passion can be controlled, so that the passion is only used at the appropriate time.

Any time the "enlightened" turn back towards the world they become like Lot and his family. If someone "enlightened" falls into sin, and isn't aware then they have turned back towards Sodom. Thus they become of pillar of salt, they have knowledge but eventually that knowledge will lose its saltiness. Thank God we do not live in OT times. Because if the "enlightened" is shown the error in his ways he always has the choice to turn back towards heaven.

Unless your name is Jesus Christ, I imagine passion could always feel like love, if it was strong enough, even if in some way it was against love. Paul was passionate about the law, but he was shown the truth and was turned towards heaven.

But if the "enlightened", scheme and plot to commit sin, deliberate sin, they have turned away, and lost their saltiness, they will never be able to turn back towards heaven. Because they have known love, and deliberately plotted against it.

The bible says not in this age or the next. But it also says that everyone will love one another in the next age but some will rise in shame. So I would imagine that anyone who truly sinned against the Holy Spirit would still be resurrected unto life but they could never escape the shame of their sin, even though they have accepted forgiveness. To be in heaven and to feel shame, I think that is about as bad as anyone will have it, when God's plan is completed.

Sin itself will be cast into the lake of fire, but the spirit is eternal. Universalism & ("enlightenment", "election", "born again) these can all work together without creating religion.

God loves everyone, everyone is saved, can we start acting like it so we can all be "born again"? Please I promise it only hurts a little? Except that you control your emotions and control them, for the benefit of all. If you need more turn to Christ, read the bible, and follow directions.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


Yes but there are many keys to the one door, but only one door. Love

reply to post by sacgamer25


Well said...

Now knowing what you just explained... Would you be inclined to retract the statement you made earlier in this thread... That being those who disobey the spirit of love are not forgiven?

As I've said, you turned said person into a one who blasphemies against the spirit...

When according to the gospels, if one knows the error of his ways and asks for forgiveness he/she will be forgiven if they do likewise...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Well said...

Now knowing what you just explained... Would you be inclined to retract the statement you made earlier in this thread... That being those who disobey the spirit of love are not forgiven?

As I've said, you turned said person into a one who blasphemies against the spirit...

When according to the gospels, if one knows the error of his ways and asks for forgiveness he/she will be forgiven if they do likewise...

If I were to say it again I would say:

If one who is truly "enlightened/born again", deliberately sins against love, there will not be a path for them to come back to love in this life, and their guilt will remain in the next age.

Thank you for showing me that I needed to be clearer with my thoughts.

Does that leave open Heaven and Reincarnation for what happens next?

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Yes but there are many keys to the one door, but only one door. Love

I have heard this, my problem with it is WHICH IS IT: door number one: This is LOVE EMOTION (loosh, that that describes the love of an animal protecting and willing to die in defending of its prodjeny; OR door number two: this is LOVE AS A FORCE (much like magnetism, gravity, the hidden beautiful ONE). Love can be explained in either which is your definition? They can be explained as both but it is important you know the difference and why and how you experience it.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Well said...

Now knowing what you just explained... Would you be inclined to retract the statement you made earlier in this thread... That being those who disobey the spirit of love are not forgiven?

As I've said, you turned said person into a one who blasphemies against the spirit...

When according to the gospels, if one knows the error of his ways and asks for forgiveness he/she will be forgiven if they do likewise...

If I were to say it again I would say:

If one who is truly "enlightened/born again", deliberately sins against love, there will not be a path for them to come back to love in this life, and their guilt will remain in the next age.

Thank you for showing me that I needed to be clearer with my thoughts.

Does that leave open Heaven and Reincarnation for what happens next?

edit on 9-6-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

Well I find reincarnation to be an absolute certainty... not for everyone... but for most...

Jesus taught us how to break the cycle of Karmic debt... therefore eliminating the need to reincarnate...

You recently said "there are many paths but one door" This of course is correct... Yet let me add to that thought...

There are many paths up the mountain... Most do not chose the direct path... and they carve and hack away at the forest and mountain side to blaze their own path... Their path is met with many obstacles, which cut and bruise the person... and unfortunately sometimes when they reach the top, they find that they've left many things at the bottom of the mountain... So they have to return to the bottom to get them... Although the next time they make the journey the path they've carved for themselves is less hostile then the first time though...

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Yes but there are many keys to the one door, but only one door. Love

I have heard this, my problem with it is WHICH IS IT: door number one: This is LOVE EMOTION (loosh, that that describes the love of an animal protecting and willing to die in defending of its prodjeny; OR door number two: this is LOVE AS A FORCE (much like magnetism, gravity, the hidden beautiful ONE). Love can be explained in either which is your definition? They can be explained as both but it is important you know the difference and why and how you experience it.

edit on 9-6-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

The real door is spiritual, but the path is found in loving one another. I mean using love as a verb and actually doing things that are pleasing to the spirit. That is when you begin to understand your emotions and how you can control them. The rest is more like a force, something that cosmically pulls you towards it.

reply to post by Akragon


I like that thought, I guess I just don't like this lesson enough to want to return.

My mountain was/is pretty steep, with lots of tough spots.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Yes but there are many keys to the one door, but only one door. Love

I have heard this, my problem with it is WHICH IS IT: door number one: This is LOVE EMOTION (loosh, that that describes the love of an animal protecting and willing to die in defending of its prodjeny; OR door number two: this is LOVE AS A FORCE (much like magnetism, gravity, the hidden beautiful ONE). Love can be explained in either which is your definition? They can be explained as both but it is important you know the difference and why and how you experience it.

Sacgamer
The real door is spiritual, but the path is found in loving one another. I mean using love as a verb and actually doing things that are pleasing to the spirit. That is when you begin to understand your emotions and how you can control them. The rest is more like a force, something that cosmically pulls you towards it.

Love as a verb; I have problems with loving of MySelf first and formost. No one taught me how this is done. I see myself as predated predator. I am All THiINGs at once. not knowing direction as my principle inclination is to IMPLODE UPON MYSELF taking everything with me that I created.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

The point being... we make mistakes... and we're not damned for doing so... Mind you Karma will catch up to one who makes said mistakes, but that is not the issue here...
Forgiveness IS divine... and while I know Sacgamer's intentions are good, he choses to attempt to explain away his error...I know love, I can define it in one word... Selflessness, yet just like everyone else I make mistakes... as im sure he does as well... According to the gospels we are forgiven if we forgive... We are shown mercy if we show mercy... We get what we give in every situation in our life... We are NOT perfect in our actions... But we try as best as we are able...

Not damned, not to my mind. AfterInfinity calls it compassion and yet proclaims itself as Athiest, not a misnomer? Forgiveness/compassion NEVER PITY is my soapbox for "Best Intentions Of The HumanBeing". The tripwires/mistakes you speak of are for our progression (individualized/personalized)----heres where it got tricky: Hitler took it seriously. Which gospels say we are forgiven if we forgive, If I Didnt Write Them I Am Not about to believe them. The Mercy quotient. Why do I have to make the first step into the abyss? I NEED GUIDANCE (I am a neophyt) baby stepping. I would allow for giving to get but that begins to sound like blackmail I give you information, you give me the same/similar or an equivlent of. If we are not perfect in action AS GOD DESCRIBING ITSELF, WE are SUNK in an open boat without PADDLES.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


No one has to teach you how to love yourself; we all seem to be born with this flaw. It is when you realize that you can choose to exert positive or negative emotions on those you interact with that you will indeed exert only the positive.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

The Mercy quotient. Why do I have to make the first step into the abyss? I NEED GUIDANCE (I am a neophyt) baby stepping. I would allow for giving to get but that begins to sound like blackmail I give you information, you give me the same/similar or an equivlent of.

Giving for the sake of receiving is not actually giving...

One must make the first step because said person knows within what is right...

IF both sides of a situation had both parties wondering why they should make the first step to peace... there will be no peace because both sides sit on the same fence...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

The Mercy quotient. Why do I have to make the first step into the abyss? I NEED GUIDANCE (I am a neophyt) baby stepping. I would allow for giving to get but that begins to sound like blackmail I give you information, you give me the same/similar or an equivlent of.

Giving for the sake of receiving is not actually giving...

One must make the first step because said person knows within what is right...

IF both sides of a situation had both parties wondering why they should make the first step to peace... there will be no peace because both sides sit on the same fence...

I teach the lesson this way to my children.

The one who chooses love first wins.

Because only the one that chooses love will find love. Even if the other chooses love after you the greater honor always goes to the one who choose love over self first.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Grace is God's gift and only he can decide how much of it to show to any man.

Why does everyone keep trying to separate the word "grace" from "faith"?

Paul said that because of GRACE, GOD'S GIFT WAS FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST!