Just Answer One Question. "Why"?

reply to post by sacgamer25

Jesus himself said if they are not against us they are for us, even if their religion is slightly different.

Let's look at the context in which Jesus made that statement...

Mark 9:38-40

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Jesus was talking about a man who was casting out devils in Jesus' name. John was just upset that this man didn't follow the disciples and went on his own path casting out devils, but he was still doing it in JESUS' name. This is not the same context that you're trying to place it in.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

Lemme get this straight. Someone claims that they received a message from the essence the comprises your "God" and his "Holy Spirit", but because you don't agree with the contents of that message, you're dismissing it as heresy?

That's just it. None of these people ever mention the "Holy Spirit", which is the one left to us by Jesus.

However, I'm hearing more and more people using Jesus' name to point away from the very message that Jesus taught. So, yes, I'm dismissing it as heresy.

Here you go just to make sure we are perfectly clear.

This is my testimony.

After spending much time listening too, reading, researching and debating biblical text the Holy Spirit came to me. The translations and the meanings of scripture come to me directly from the Holy Spirit.

Here are the following gifts that I prayed for and believe I have received.
The gift of Knowledge
The gift of Wisdom
The gift to understand Prophecy
The gift of Faith
The gift of Discerning of Spirits
The gift of Tongues
The gift of Interpretation of Tongues
The gift to teach

I believe there are only two gifts remaining, maybe someday I will have the faith and humility to pray for these also.
The Gifts of Healings
The Working of Miracles

So yes I am clearly suggesting that God is righteous and true, and that his son who has come to me in the form of the Holy Spirit has given me all the gifts that I prayed for and believed that God wanted me to receive. This too does not contradict scripture.

So when I give you an interpretation for scripture, I fully believe that the interpretation came not from me but directly from the Holy Spirit within me.

Unless someone can show me a verifiable contradiction in my thought and interpretation to the message of Christ then I will continue to believe, by faith, in what I say to be true.

All of this seems unnecessarily complicated. If it bears good fruit, and it is not intended to harm, then why make a fuss?

reply to post by sacgamer25

Here are the following gifts that I prayed for and believe I have received.
The gift of Knowledge
The gift of Wisdom
The gift to understand Prophecy
The gift of Faith
The gift of Discerning of Spirits
The gift of Tongues
The gift of Interpretation of Tongues
The gift to teach

I believe there are only two gifts remaining, maybe someday I will have the faith and humility to pray for these also.
The Gifts of Healings
The Working of Miracles

How are any of those things different from witchcraft? These are the intentions and works that many wiccans and pagans seek to produce with their practices, yet they are condemned for their practices.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Jesus himself said if they are not against us they are for us, even if their religion is slightly different.

Let's look at the context in which Jesus made that statement...

Mark 9:38-40

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Jesus was talking about a man who was casting out devils in Jesus' name. John was just upset that this man didn't follow the disciples and went on his own path casting out devils, but he was still doing it in JESUS' name. This is not the same context that you're trying to place it in.

How is calling Jesus the Spirit of Love, accepting him as my lord and savior not for Jesus. Based on your belief if I say this it will make everything else I say true.

I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe he was the only begotten son. I believed he was born to the Virgin Mary. I believe Jesus was the coming Messiah, who was and is and is to come. I believe that Jesus Christ was the teacher of love, the Holy Spirit, subject only to the father. I believe that Christ Jesus is my lord and savior. I believe he was crucified, bleed to death, and was resurrected, to become a living example for the way the rest of mankind should live their life.

I pray in the name of Christ Jesus that all men may become one with the Holy Spirit so that all men may know and feel the love of God within the way Christ Jesus has filled me by his Spirit, The Spirit of Love.

According to your faith it should be impossible for me to claim these things if they were not true. So does that mean that what I say must be true?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Here are the following gifts that I prayed for and believe I have received.
The gift of Knowledge
The gift of Wisdom
The gift to understand Prophecy
The gift of Faith
The gift of Discerning of Spirits
The gift of Tongues
The gift of Interpretation of Tongues
The gift to teach

I believe there are only two gifts remaining, maybe someday I will have the faith and humility to pray for these also.
The Gifts of Healings
The Working of Miracles

How are any of those things different from witchcraft? These are the intentions and works that many wiccans and pagans seek to produce with their practices, yet they are condemned for their practices.

edit on 8-6-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I have only one rule for those who seek if they want to be one with me. Before seeking anything ensure you do it only for love and with complete sincerity. To find power that is against love, will only destroy the spirit within.

Love is the command, religion should not separate if we are truly both seeking love by our actions.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Sacgamer, I believe that you love and follow Jesus. I'm not questioning that.

I'm only stating that using words like "love" alone isn't going to get the message across, because others are using that word for their own purposes.

In one comment, you mentioned that you thought Paul was a Universalist. That's not who Paul was. However, I must say that you sound and speak a lot like a Universalist at times in the way that you write. You're going to confuse people if you keep telling them that only "love" matters and you consistently leave out the name Jesus or Holy Spirit and replace it with the "Spirit of Love".

That's all I'm saying.

reply to post by Cuervo


I hope you can see that I am trying to completely answer your question as it relates to Christianity. Because I believe one of your biggest questions about Christianity is "WHY?" Hopefully in my responses to others you can see that Christ and Paul were perfectly comfortable with your religion as long as the foundation is the love with you. Because heaven can only be found when one pursues the love within. So all religion should point the believer to the love within, and any religion that does not point to the love within is false religion.

So all religion that is for love should be acceptable to Christians, although must refuse to see it this way and continue to look down upon the rest of us from their high place.

Sorry if you feel that I have derailed your thread

reply to post by sacgamer25

I have only one rule for those who seek if they want to be one with me. Before seeking anything ensure you do it only for love and with complete sincerity.

I know people who are trying that right now and they are very sincere about it, but their message isn't the same as yours. They don't believe that Jesus was the ONLY begotten Son of God. They believe that Jesus really came to teach how to be a god here on earth.

reply to post by sacgamer25

So all religion that is for love should be acceptable to Christians, although must refuse to see it this way and continue to look down upon the rest of us from their high place.

Sacgamer, it's not about looking down on people from a high place. It's about understanding the Word of God and what Jesus said and taught.

If you want to replace Christianity with "New Age Christianity" so be it, but you're confusing people on what scriptures say and their true meaning.

Everyone will know who Jesus is before it's all said and done, but if you're not going to keep with scripture, then you're doing traditional Christianity and Jesus a disservice.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Sacgamer, I believe that you love and follow Jesus. I'm not questioning that.

I'm only stating that using words like "love" alone isn't going to get the message across, because others are using that word for their own purposes.

In one comment, you mentioned that you thought Paul was a Universalist. That's not who Paul was. However, I must say that you sound and speak a lot like a Universalist at times in the way that you write. You're going to confuse people if you keep telling them that only "love" matters and you consistently leave out the name Jesus or Holy Spirit and replace it with the "Spirit of Love".

That's all I'm saying.

I can't make it any simply than this. This is the totality of the Religion of Jesus Christ.

Christ said that there are only 2 commands.
Christ said that there are only 2 commands. Said twice intentionally because this really needs to sink in.

The first command love God. Now this is where most people get "Lost"
Everyone is trying to figure out the "RIGHT WAY" to love God.

Do you have to be baptized in water to love God the right way?
Do you have to pray 5 times a day towards Mecca to love God the right way?
Do you have to stop eating pork to love God the right way?
Do I have to sacrifice animals to love God the right way?
Do you have to judge others and condemn them to hell to love God the right way?
Do you have to eat the Eucrast, or celebrate the Passover to love God the right way?

Colossians 2:20- 23 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.

23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

There are many symbolic rituals found in all religion. If you simply obey the command without understanding or embracing the symbolism you will not find God's Love. Because you were not looking to love God from your heart but rather merely obeying a command that in itelf could not teach you anything about loving one another.

So what is the "RIGHT WAY" to love God? - Simple, refer to the second Command that was give by Christ.

To love one another. To love one another is the only "right way" to show your love for God.

If you receive spiritual benefit from anything that you do as ritual than for you there is great value, but remember it is only ritual and may only be of value to you.

So in reality there is only one command in the entire bible that Jesus wants us to follow. To love one another as we love ourselves, because this is the only way to worship God. The law was merely put into place to punish those whose actions are against love. Anyone who truly pursues love will not falter under the law.

Mathew 22:37-40 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

reply to post by sacgamer25

The first command love God. Now this is where most people get "Lost" Everyone is trying to figure out the "RIGHT WAY" to love God.

To figure out the right way you have to know and understand Jesus.

Jesus always told us that if you knew him then you knew the Father.

What did Jesus tell the Israelites was their greatest commandment?

Mark 12:29-30

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Jesus was telling him that God the Father and him were ONE. If they had known their God, they would have known and recognized Jesus when he came, because he was their God in the flesh. If they had truly loved God, they would have recognized Jesus, but they didn't.

So, first, you have to know and understand who Jesus is before you can love him with all your soul, mind and strength.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

I have only one rule for those who seek if they want to be one with me. Before seeking anything ensure you do it only for love and with complete sincerity.

I know people who are trying that right now and they are very sincere about it, but their message isn't the same as yours. They don't believe that Jesus was the ONLY begotten Son of God. They believe that Jesus really came to teach how to be a god here on earth.

Jesus said that it was good for us to become like him. So if someone believes that they are immortal and can become like Christ, they are not against scripture.

The problem arises only when one believes that he has obtained the right to sin against others. So even if the leader of your church says that he has authority from God to take life, we know that he has believed that he has the rights of God. We know that he has become mad, due to his inability to overcome sin. Thus he was left with only one other choice, to believe he was God, and therefore excusing himself from sin, Charlie Manson, The Pope during the inquisition. Men who believed they were acting directed by the authority of God to commit sin, but by their fruit we can see this simply cannot be truth.

It is possible to believe that God allowed our sin and forgave it, but to believe that we are sinning against God for the purpose of God is truly madness.

If we see someone who looks like they have veered so far away from the path of love, that they have truly turned to self apart from the spirit within, then we must try to bring them back to the path. However, if the man still acknowledge the "Spirit of Love" within as the guiding force than they are on a good path.

I agree there is a fine line here. So when someone brings this type of situation up I merely listen to what is said to know if the fruit of their religion is love. If the fruit is love than the "Spirit of Love" Christ Jesus is in them, they are clean even though they may still be a gentile.

reply to post by sacgamer25

Jesus said that it was good for us to become like him. So if someone believes that they are immortal and can become like Christ, they are not against scripture.

Sacgamer, I'm talking about people who claim that Jesus wants everyone to have magical powers here on earth to allow them the ability to control their entire environment around them, including people and the weather.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

The first command love God. Now this is where most people get "Lost" Everyone is trying to figure out the "RIGHT WAY" to love God.

To figure out the right way you have to know and understand Jesus.

Jesus always told us that if you knew him then you knew the Father.

What did Jesus tell the Israelites was their greatest commandment?

Mark 12:29-30

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Jesus was telling him that God the Father and him were ONE. If they had known their God, they would have known and recognized Jesus when he came, because he was their God in the flesh. If they had truly loved God, they would have recognized Jesus, but they didn't.

So, first, you have to know and understand who Jesus is before you can love him with all your soul, mind and strength.

edit on 8-6-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

If you have seen the "Sprit of Love" than you have seen the father's love. If you have seen the perfect reflection of God's love than you have seen the father. Because visually the father cannot be seen, but spiritually you have seen the love of the father, through the perfect reflection Christ Jesus.

God is love, Jesus is the Spirit of Love, the gentiles can become one with the Spirit of Love, without believing what you believe.

Or do you really believe that God only loves those who proclaim Christianity and that only Christians can find the Spirit of Love?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Jesus said that it was good for us to become like him. So if someone believes that they are immortal and can become like Christ, they are not against scripture.

Sacgamer, I'm talking about people who claim that Jesus wants everyone to have magical powers here on earth to allow them the ability to control their entire environment around them, including people and the weather.

Well these people probably need more help than you or I am qualified to give them, just saying .

reply to post by sacgamer25

Or do you really believe that God only loves those who proclaim Christianity and that only Christians can find the Spirit of Love?

God loves everyone, but not everyone can love God back if they don't know who he is and don't even bother to try and find out who he is.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Or do you really believe that God only loves those who proclaim Christianity and that only Christians can find the Spirit of Love?

God loves everyone, but not everyone can love God back if they don't know who he is and don't even bother to try and find out who he is.

I agree, but many Christians sit in congregations each day and learn nothing, but a man like Gandhi through his fruit, life works, and words proved that the Spirit of Love was guiding him.

I try to simplify it like this.

If you pursue love you will find love.

My pursuit was the bible so I found Christ. Many people pursue love through Buddha, they find "the light". Do you see Jesus is the light, the Christ, the Spirit of Love, so that none are without excuse?

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Sorry if you feel that I have derailed your thread

Not at all! This thread has become what I hoped it would. It is a civil discourse on how, if, and why we accept beliefs outside of our own and, if people are asking themselves that, then it is good.

reply to post by sacgamer25


I prefer not to limit an idea to any one manifestation of it. The entire realm of cars is not exactly exemplified in a ford explorer.