Islam: What the West Needs to Know (full documentary)

reply to post by LastStarfighter

You take a deFacto standpoint that your problems are from the religions of the world. If you were subjective it would help find truth.

Please don't attack me for having those doubts, and asking these questions.
My goal - my ONLY GOAL - is world peace.

If I were 'subjective'? I'm not attacking you, I'm being shushed, pushed, labelled, and attacked. You did the same thing on another of my threads - alleging that I had a malicious agenda, and then retracted it, admitting that you had not read through the whole thing here.

At least we have the same ONLY GOAL. I happen to have the memory of an elephant, though, especially about how other members respond to me. Don't know about you.
Peace.

Originally posted by wildtimes
It's useless anyway. Carry on, everyone. I give up.

I have found your thread to be rather interesting. It exposed a whole lot of agenda that is hidden with some posters. And more importantly, it showed why it's a FACT that Sharia is immoral and bad for humanity. I salute you for bringing this out.

Oh .. and a side note to wildtimes ... AWESOME use of the smilies ...
(private joke ... she'll get it. )

Originally posted by wildtimes
I'm being shushed, pushed, labelled, and attacked.

Kinda funny .. at first glance I thought you said 'slushied' ... like what the bullies to do the kids on Glee. It's my own bad eyesight that made me not see it correctly. But ... kinda funny ....

reply to post by wildtimes

You are too harsh with people you don't know one tiny bit, yes!!! We are here to discuss things. You haven't shown any reason for anyone to want to engage with you so far.

Certainly I have. It's just ATS can operate like grade school as I have seen.

You assuming you know ANYTHING about ANY OF US after only 6 days and popping in here to tell us that we are ignorant, stereotypical people with a stupid agenda who haven't done our research is not winning you any points either.

Well, I didn't tell everyone all of those things in the first place. Secondly, there is such a thing called constructive criticism. Third, you did make a stereotypical comment. Maybe I went too far as to tell you, you are a stereotypical person, that is if you didn't mean to say what you said, the way you did.

I don't care about your denomination. You don't know much about "how other people are" on here. You haven't been around long enough. Unless you got banned and are now "back", or have been lurking for ever and not participating - which I highly doubt, or you'd know me by now. Obviously, you don't.

The comment you specifically replied to as to your comment above, didn't have nothing to do with you. It had to do with Charles. Now, smack yourself on the forehead again.

Not to mention, people don't have to have a "chaste and modest" avatar to be smart, either. You are "judging me" by my "provocative avatar" (Oh My God I Can See That Woman's Face, Neck, and Shoulders! My Eyes, My Eyes! I Should Pluck Them Out!) AND calling me names AND telling me my mind and my life.
I don't think I care to hear what you have to say anyway.

This was another comment you replied to that wasn't meant for you. Though since you replied, I must ask you to look up the word provocative. Actually, I will do it for you.

Adjective
Causing provocation, esp. deliberately: "a provocative article".
Arousing sexual desire or interest, esp. deliberately.

Now, doesn't this fit right along with your name and avatar? Just saying.

reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

Let me take yet another, different approach. I'm not going to ask you about religions or violence. I'm just going to ask for your opinion.

The thread was started in order to confront the concern some have about the violence in the Muslim world. It's a real fear, whether everybody believes it's a rational fear or not. Those fears were spelled out and people, including you, were asked to address them.

It was an opportunity for conversation, reassurance, understanding, and perhaps even friendship and respect.

So here's my question. In your opinion, why are all the posters here who seem to be supporting Islam, dodging the questions and the issues.

Do you think they are afraid or unwilling to admit the fears are valid? Are the cultures so different that Muslims can't have a significant conversation with non-Muslims? What is it? Why is everybody refusing to talk about the issues?

By the way, concerning this?

Adjective
Causing provocation, esp. deliberately: "a provocative article".
Arousing sexual desire or interest, esp. deliberately.

Now, doesn't this fit right along with your name and avatar? Just saying.

Don't tell wildtimes this, but I find her incredibly sexy, and not because of some picture which shows what appears to be a simple, natural, poetic spirit. I really like her openness, acceptance, willingness to help, learn, and express herself clearly. Remember, don't tell her I said so.

The picture itself? Not so much, it's not the avatar that makes my heart flutter. While it may have been provocative years ago, I don't think it really is now. And I would be very surprised if wildtimes ws deliberately arousing sexual desire or interest.

I'm sorry, but I think you've mischaracterized her badly.

The best thing the west needs to know is that the ancients were on a celestial cycle of omnipresent potent awareness of self realization. It has been documented by scientists that this the higher consciousness of human beings reached a height during a time of 1,500 B.C, by the time the Romans took over many decades later it had started to drop. But this is why you not only had Greek philosophers at the time when the bible was written.

So the point is that ancient people were smarter in their own way, so we all as individuals should acknowledge that even the teaching of the Koran are relevant to knowledge.

But we have to remember as a world civilization that acknowledging ancient tradition is important to expand across all boards.

Many religious individuals are guilty of this. It is only right if all people are accepted. History shows they all have the same roots as overall human civilization.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by yuppa

 

Muhammed is the messiah in islam according to lots of muslims.

According to the Koran, Jesus is the messiah in Islam. Which is why he is known as Isa al-Masih.
Mohammad never claimed to be the messiah and no Muslim who knows his religion thinks of Mohammad as the Messiah.

It doesn't matter I guess, as many think its fine to throw in their 2 cents on Islam without knowing exactly what Islam teaches.

edit on 8-6-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

The Muslims believe in ISA not Jesus. The age difference of Isa and Jesus is more than a 1400 years.

In several Suras the Qur'an confuses Mary the mother of Jesus [Miriam in Hebrew] with Miriam the sister of Aaron and Moses, and daughter of Amram which is about 1400 years off.

At length she brought (the babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms), They said: "O Mary! Truly a strange thing has thou brought! "O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a man of evil, nor your mother a woman unchaste!"
-- Sura 19:27-28

And Mary, the daughter of `Imran, ...
-- Sura 66:12

reply to post by charles1952

In your opinion, why are all the posters here who seem to be supporting Islam, dodging the questions and the issues. Do you think they are afraid or unwilling to admit the fears are valid? Are the cultures so different that Muslims can't have a significant conversation with non-Muslims? What is it? Why is everybody refusing to talk about the issues?

SERIOUSLY!!?
I think the OP has been debunked and wildtimes herself accepted it.
The thread is now just wandering except you trying to still somehow prove that islam is violent by asking leading questions or assuming the refusal of posters to indulge you as a proof that your assumtions are true, just like you did about the video in OP. Asking muslims to respond to video without ever asking a straight question.

When somebody does answer you. You ask the same question in another twisted way till you get the answer you want and when you don't get it you call muslim posters evasive?

so basically we are evasive and "afraid" because we don't give you answers that you want.

Charles, muslims are not going to agree to something thats not true no matter how well you put it to lead and bait them.
You are free to make sentences/questions that indulge/confirm your own opinions and feel pleased with yourself.

reply to post by charles1952

We know that Christians and Jews are being pushed out of Muslim countries.

We know Coptic Christians are being sliced and diced. Christians in Africa are having churches burned down and worshippers killed. Boko Haram and Al-Shabab are shooting left and right. Persecution of non-Muslims is going up.

So, two world wide religions of over a billion adherents. Both have long histories. One has 200 sects, the other has none. One launches a dozen terrorist a day, the other doesn't even launch one a day. And of the terrorist attacks committed by one religion, many occur in countries that have done them no harm. It seems the only purpose in those attacks is to gain concessions, drive out or kill non- believers, and seize territory. Now, do you see even a small part of the problem? HAVE I MADE MYSELF CLEAR?

you maybe presenting some facts but the interpretations you make are way off.
When 9/11 happened, many muslims in US faced discrimination and even violence towards them and some even moved away.
There are always ignorant idiots who take their frustation out on people who were not involved but share something(religion/appearance) common with the ones who "allegedly" committed the act.

Now the muslim countries are under attack by the west(christians) and some people in these countries do feel it to be a christian attack, a crusade and they in their ignorance and stupidity show hostility to christians making christians decide to move.

Also simply people just move from war zones for safety and all people, including muslims and christians are moving out but because christians are a minority, their going looks more conspicious on statistics than muslims,
They were living peacefully with each other till now so your interpretation that muslims are just killing non-believers as a religious duty is comepletely false.

So just because a fact fits a theory/opinion of your about islam, it does not make that opinion the truth, its just you seeking confirmation. You will never see the truth if your thought process operates this way.

reply to post by yuppa


actually, cleopatra' son, known to us by his roman name, caesarian, is a prime candidate for jesus because

1. his egyptian name was esa
2. he was the heir apparent of the roman empire, egyptian empire and israel
3. he was from the ptolemy line to king david.
4. he hints when he refers to himself as the alpha and omega, a reference among other things, to the crook and flail of pharaoh.
5. he was the last pharaoh of egypt.

reply to post by charles1952

So, two world wide religions of over a billion adherents. Both have long histories. One has 200 sects, the other has none. One launches a dozen terrorist a day, the other doesn't even launch one a day.

yes we all know christianity is so peaceful except that the western leaders attacking the muslim countries are actually christians but lets not consider that because they are not doing it because of their beliefs, they are waging a "war on terror"!!
The innocents dying in carpet bombings and drone attacks must thank them for hunting down terrorists and just die with gratitude on their faces knowing that they are just acceptable collateral damages.

Maybe one religion does not need to commit a dozen terrorist attacks a day as they own air forces and drones and do the same acts yet call themselves as ambassadors of peace and even get a Nobel Peace Prize!!

Here's a story of a little girl who may appear ignorant to the educated and informed people here but her sufferings are real.

Fathima, age 6, who lives with her
father and her mom, and with 2 sisters
and a brother in the Qandahar City,
likes playing with friends her own age
in the fields around her house. Her
father works long hours to buy food for the family. Fathima, on the third
day of American bombing of
Qandahar city told her father to take
her to Allah and she would tell Him to
remove Americans from this peaceful
world and destroy their airplanes, and if the father did not take her to Allah
then the father was to let her go out
to the deserts to pray to Allah
Almighty. 11-year-old Ahmad also asks for
Shahadat (martyrdom) and says to let
him go out of the home to fight the
invaders when they land. The father was unable to give an
answer so he finally asked the mother
to satisfy them. “You are too young for
fighting filthy invaders, Ahmad! And
you should wait until you get older;
the age for fighting is at least 16,” the mother advised her son. “And you Fathima, notify your
demands from Allah to your father to
pen it down and then he would send it
to Allah’s house; Kaba e Shareef. And
of course Allah will extend His Wrath
over all the disbelievers.” They both got satisfied and Fathima ran and took
a piece of paper with a half broken
pen to her father and told her father to
write; “Me, Fathima and all children of
Muslims of Afghanistan are under
attack of invaders, their airplanes are coming from their far away country to
our land and are bombing us, they are
not only the enemies of our country
and our lives but also the enemies of
your religion Islam, they came to
remove the real Islamic Emirate from Afghanistan. And moreover, they kill
the children who can neither do any
good nor harm to anyone. O my Allah!
Send your extreme wrath over them
and over all their supporters whether
they are Afghan or any others. We hate Americans and their followers, kill
them all.” After finishing the letter the father and
Ahmad went to a Masjid to perform
Isha (night) prayers, and a bomb hit
Fathima’s house and all members of
the family except Ahmad and his
father were martyred. The father says that Fathima whispered into his ear in
her last breath, “Don’t send the letter
now, I am meeting Allah very soon
and I will tell all that we are facing in
our country”.

the 1st thing wildtimes may see is indoctrination and ignorance but as i had said in a post long back, 99% of people in Afghanistian don't know why they are being invaded and occupied.
Their reality is completely different and their sufferings are REAL!!

reply to post by logical7

They were living peacefully with each other till now so your interpretation that muslims are just killing non-believers as a religious duty is comepletely false.

But why are they killing each other?

You see, this is the trouble as I see it - the Shia/Sunni conflict has been there forever, and yes, I know what it's about - it's about Muhammed's successor. So, ever since he died, Islam has been divided, even though he might have preached brotherhood and unity among Muslims in his last sermon. Why is that?

It's no different from the infighting among Christians who think 'their' denomination is the right one. The Abrahamic religions have NEVER been uniformly practiced.

Right now Iran is anticipating a new President to be elected on Friday. The Supreme Leader, however, has hand-picked the candidates, and the prominent reformers are being held captives and mistreated in their homes.
Insight: Ahead of vote, 'kidnapped' Iran reformists imprisoned at home

Mirhossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karoubi, who as reformist candidates led the "Green Movement" that disputed the 2009 election result, have not been charged with crimes. But both men, former top officials now in their 70s, are being kept locked indoors, under constant surveillance and with little contact with families who fear for their health.

"This is illegal even according to our laws and regulations," Karoubi's son Mohammed Taghi Karoubi said from Britain. "No one has officially taken responsibility for this illegal action."

The government's firm grip ensures that there is unlikely to be any repeat of the unrest of 2009, when the authorities violently suppressed demonstrations and dozens of people were killed, hundreds wounded and thousands arrested.

Since then, with prices rising and unemployment surging because of international economic sanctions imposed over Iran's nuclear program, public discontent is arguably higher than ever but reformists among the leadership have been sidelined.

It seems to me, after reading this and another article that explains Iran's current tension and world focus, with an indepth view and information into some of its recent history, that there is misunderstanding on all sides.
Special Report: Iran, the United States and 'the cup of poison'

Five months ago Iran's foreign minister sent an unusual letter to the country's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. It was time, Ali Akbar Salehi wrote according to two sources who read the letter, to reach out to Tehran's arch foe by entering into "broad discussions with the United States."

The supreme leader, though cautious about the prospect, sent a reply to Salehi and the rest of the Cabinet: he was not optimistic but would not oppose them if they pursued the initiative.

Salehi's move was bold on many counts, not least the risk it posed to him in bypassing outgoing Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The outgoing president has fallen out of favor with the supreme leader in recent years and openly opposed Salehi's proposal, the sources said.

Now, I hope you'll take the time and focus to read these two articles - both are quite lengthy, and give a picture of what's going on INSIDE Iran.

Then we have this:
Iran's Khamenei says big election turnout will frustrate foes

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was speaking on the last day of a subdued campaign that has not produced a leading candidate from three main hardliners and one moderate.

The winner will replace Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but inherit an economy struggling with high unemployment and inflation, and buckling under the weight of international sanctions imposed over Iran's disputed nuclear program.

The new president will also have little leeway to change major policies like Iran's enrichment of uranium for nuclear fuel or its support for President Bashar al-Assad in the Syrian civil war. Both are decided by Khamenei.

"My insistence on the presence of the majority of people in the elections is because the strong presence of the Iranian nation will disappoint the enemy, make it reduce pressures and follow another path," Khamenei said in a speech on Wednesday, reported by the ISNA news agency.

This man, the "Supreme Leader" has hand-picked ALL of the candidates, and ALL of them will support what HE wants, NOT what the people want.

So, no matter how much you and sk0rp keep saying the problem isn't Islam - there are still people dying every day because they are killing each other.

Do you relieve the Supreme Leader of all responsibility for ongoing unrest and intolerance? Because he is being a dictator, and people are NOT happy with him or the condition of their country right now.

reply to post by logical7


Why do you keep saying 'the West' is Christian?
THE WEST is comprised of people of ALL religions. It's NOT just Christians; that is a generalization and a misrepresentation of what is going on.

The USA is NOT a "Christian nation", logical7. Please try to get that through your head. It is a secular nation. And Europe is made up of secular nations as well.

I fight JUST AS HARD to STOP the Christian warmongers and fanatics as I do to stop the Muslim warmongers and fanatics.

reply to post by logical7

I think the OP has been debunked and wildtimes herself accepted it.
The thread is now just wandering except you trying to still somehow prove that islam is violent by asking leading questions or assuming the refusal of posters to indulge you as a proof that your assumtions are true, just like you did about the video in OP. Asking muslims to respond to video without ever asking a straight question.

SERIOUSLY. The OP film has been shown to be PROPAGANDA. So is your "belief" that 9/11 was an inside job - that belief is based on PROPAGANDA. You can't accuse others of falling for Propaganda and then blame them when you yourself are falling for Propaganda as well.

Whoever is telling you that it is Christians slaughtering Muslims willy-nilly for OIL and blatant religious hatred while calling it a "war on terror" has skewed your understanding of how complicated this all is. The wars are terrible - they are a culmination of generations of previous leadership, religious infighting, and ongoing finger-pointing.

Why are you not blaming the Saudi government? Why not the Iranian "government"?
What about the Syrian government?

Sunni Muslim insurgents have killed about 60 Shi'ite Muslims in a rebel-held eastern Syrian town where President Bashar al-Assad's agents had been trying to recruit and arm fighters for his cause, according to opposition sources on Wednesday.

The attack was another sign of how a revolt that began more than two years ago with peaceful protests against four decades of Assad family rule is descending into sectarian bloodshed.

A video posted online by rebels on Tuesday, entitled "The storming and cleansing of Hatla" showed dozens of gunmen carrying black Islamist flags celebrating and firing guns in the streets of a small town as smoke curled above several buildings.

"We have raised the banner 'There is no God but God' above the houses of the apostate rejectionists, the Shi'ites, and the holy warriors are celebrating," the voice of the cameraman says.

Many of the fighters involved in the attack were said to be from the al Qaeda-linked Nusra Front. Hardline Sunni groups often refer to Shi'ites as rejectionists because they deny the legitimacy of the Prophet Mohammad's first successors.

Syrian rebels kill dozens of Shi'ites in eastern town
You are blaming 'the West' for the Sunni's forever hatred of the Shiites? The "Arab Spring" protests in Syrian turned into an "Arab Firestorm" that hasn't died down. If Muslims are uniformly tolerant and peaceful, why do they engage in warfare amongst themselves?

It might well be true that the rebels are being encouraged by 'the West' in these "Dirty War" tactics - but they are exploiting tension that ALREADY EXISTED and intolerance among Muslims themselves. How do you propose to reduce the tensions that create "rebellions" against hard-line Muslim governments?

The youth rebelled against the archaic, traditionalist oppression that was holding them hostage to progress, and they wanted change. Well, things have certainly changed!
Not in a good way, yet, either. This chaos was NOT STARTED by 'the West' or 'Christians', logical7. It could be said that Islam has PULLED THE WEST into its own conflicts more than 'the West' has PUSHED ISLAMIC SECTS into war.

And now in Sudan they are cutting off oil exports to South Sudan, too!!
Sudan officially notifies it will halt oil exports

Diplomats doubt Sudan will actually close the two cross-border export pipelines because its economy has been suffering without South Sudan's pipeline fees.

Oil used to be the main source for Sudan's budget until southern secession in July 2011, when Khartoum lost 75 percent of its oil production and its status as oil exporter overnight.

Both countries accuse each other of backing rebels on the other's territory, one of several conflicts stemming from the messy split of what was once Africa's largest country.

You are accusing 'the West' of backing rebels - but the rebels were rebelling BEFORE 'the West' got involved.
Do you see?

The point is, that people EVERYWHERE want to be safe, have their needs met, and have stability and peace. WHO IS KEEPING IT FROM HAPPENING?

reply to post by mindlessbrainpower89

The comment you specifically replied to as to your comment above, didn't have nothing to do with you. It had to do with Charles. Now, smack yourself on the forehead again.

You really need to cut it out. EVERY POST on this thread is open to ALL MEMBERS for response. I responded to you saying you weren't going to tell anyone your denomination, on a thread that I STARTED, so I FEEL FINE to respond to your statement.

Then you have THIS as 'your own text', incorrectly formatted to show that it was MY TEXT:

Not to mention, people don't have to have a "chaste and modest" avatar to be smart, either. You are "judging me" by my "provocative avatar" (Oh My God I Can See That Woman's Face, Neck, and Shoulders! My Eyes, My Eyes! I Should Pluck Them Out!) AND calling me names AND telling me my mind and my life.
I don't think I care to hear what you have to say anyway.

And here is your follow up:

This was another comment you replied to that wasn't meant for you.

Really? The extreme T&C warning you got was not an attack on ME? The mod neglected to remove your hateful rhetoric in the line by line replies that you got quoting it. Go back and look.

Though since you replied, I must ask you to look up the word provocative. Actually, I will do it for you.

Adjective
Causing provocation, esp. deliberately: "a provocative article".
Arousing sexual desire or interest, esp. deliberately.

Now, doesn't this fit right along with your name and avatar? Just saying.

MY AVATAR is of Sophie Rousseau, an actress, sitting in a contemplative position, dressed as a lady would be sitting and thinking in her solitude. It is not mean to be "sexually enticing".

And my NAME "wildtimes" refers to THE CHAOS OF THE WORLD WE ARE LIVING IN.

So. You have completely projected onto me a snap assessment based on your own 'reaction' that has NOTHING to do with my real agenda, personality, or goals.

The ARTICLES I post and threads I make are "provocative" in that they bring up touchy subjects that are important to me, and that need sorting out if we are ever to have world peace.

There is NOTHING REMOTELY SEXUALLY INTENDED by ANYTHING that I say or do. I simply chose a female avatar to represent that I am female. I've used others, and this one will change as well.

You need to STOP attacking members and leave the thread if you cannot speak to the topic.
You are being deliberately oppositional and insulting FIRST, and then later saying "but I agree with you and understand." Can you please just say "I agree and understand" without attacking people's integrity or projecting your opinions of other members' intentions?

reply to post by wildtimes

But why are they killing each other? You see, this is the trouble as I see it - the Shia/Sunni conflict has been there forever, and yes, I know what it's about - it's about Muhammed's successor. So, ever since he died, Islam has been divided, even though he might have preached brotherhood and unity among Muslims in his last sermon. Why is that? It's no different from the infighting among Christians who think 'their' denomination is the right one. The Abrahamic religions have NEVER been uniformly practiced. Right now Iran is anticipating a new President to be elected on Friday. The Supreme Leader, however, has hand- picked the candidates, and the prominent reformers are being held captives and mistreated in their homes.

"5:48 And We have revealed to you, [O Muúammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."

not everyone in either of the Abrahamic religions would be true to its teachings, its a test about who really believes in God and does good and who makes the religion/sect just a way to boost ego and think he/she is righteous and others doomed.

I read the articles and i know who actually rules Iran and what really happens in Iran but why are you mentioning it?

reply to post by charles1952


Thanks for defending my character, charles. I appreciate your effort. I'm way past trying to be "sexy" in my life, though. I'm just doing my thing - trying to poke holes in people's ignorance.

"My job is to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."

Reminds me of Johnny Depp in the first Pirates of the Caribbean Movie.
"You cheated!" is the allegation.
"Pirate!" is his "explanation."

Yeah, people accuse me of trying to change things for the better.
People who hate my posts: "You're just making trouble!"
Me: "Social Worker!"

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Why do you keep saying 'the West' is Christian?
THE WEST is comprised of people of ALL religions. It's NOT just Christians; that is a generalization and a misrepresentation of what is going on.

The USA is NOT a "Christian nation", logical7. Please try to get that through your head. It is a secular nation. And Europe is made up of secular nations as well.

the leaders are christians, zionists, zionist christians. Some with dual israeli citizenships, if you think that their decisions are not influenced by these associations then think again!

My point was also that if the majority of west only sees the religion of terrorists and not the reasons behind their attack then its fair that these muslims also see the attack and war on them as a christian war on islam.

reply to post by logical7

I read the articles and i know who actually rules Iran and what really happens in Iran but why are you mentioning it?

To emphasize that the problems AMONG MUSLIM SECTS are just that - problems AMONG MUSLIM sects.
They were going on before "oil" was the Number One resource that everyone wants. And they will be AFTER "oil" is no longer used.

The Supreme Leader of Iran is a hardline fundamentalist opposed to real freedom, prosperity of his people, and reform. That is a MUSLIM issue - not an OIL issue.

And also because sk0rpi0n keeps bringing up "Iran" as "tolerant" of a neighborhood full of Jews. Iran is a totalitarian state POSING as a democracy. The presidential line-up of candidate is NO CHOICE AT ALL in terms of REAL change in Iran. You don't see that as problematic?
You don't see why their insistence to get "nuclear power" would be seen as sketchy?

The Leader is behaving out of REVENGE, POWER, and CONTROL, not "real Islam." And that attitude seems to be rampant among the developing predominantly Muslim countries.

reply to post by logical7

the leaders are christians, zionists, zionist christians. Some with dual israeli citizenships, if you think that their decisions are not influenced by these associations then think again!

That is an outrageous generalization based on a portrayal by the media.

Yes, there ARE Zionist Christians in America - I fight against their agenda and control, too!!! I've said that over and over, and you just won't hear it. There ARE warmongers making back-door deals who just want to kill everybody. And they are being exposed. They are PSYCHOPATHS - and MOST Americans are OUTRAGED about it.
So is the Supreme Leader of Iran a psychopath. Yes, some of them are in positions of POWER, and that is WRONG.

I AM FIGHTING AGAINST PSYCHOPATHS. They need to be removed from power positions at EVERY LEVEL.
If you want to know more about the "Zionist" (Dominionist) agenda, go to NARWatch here.

It will show you who the real "Zionists" are, and what the Christian counterpart to Islamists is all about. The New Apostolic Reformation. THEY want to make the US into a "Christian theocracy" - and those of us who want real progress are fighting their agenda, too!!! SOME of them are politicians. ALL OF THEM are trouble. Trouble.
Capital T Trouble.

Yes, there are people with connections to the elite "shadow government" influencing things - and that is ANOTHER thing that is being protested openly by people all over the world.

As long as You keep demanding that we see what "real Islam" is about, I will demand that You see what "real secularism" is all about.

I am anti-"capitalist oligarchy", and it really infuriates me when you don't RESPECT AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.

I am anti-religion, anti-greed, anti-oppression, and anti-exploitation across the board, and YOU KNOW IT.