How does Blood save?

reply to post by pthena


"iron deficiency"

Free your mind. There is no 'iron deficiency' in the world. Any apparent iron deficiency is malnutrition or starvation or what is known as 'anemia of chronic disease' , the body withholding iron. This is an anemia which the body creates itself , in order to fight disease , it removes the iron away from infection , stores it , to starve it , rendering the infection weak enough to eradicate it. Iron deficiency is 'treated' by eating fruit.
"20 ml of gooseberry juice (containing 40 mg of vitamin C) three times a week"
"Correction of anemia and iron deficiency in vegetarians by administration of ascorbic acid."

Just WOW Sacrifice at the Alter from Man to Beast as other religions ( Pagan ) do the same
Like pre Colombian Aztec Inca Mayans and so forth

Human sacrifice in Aztec culture
en.wikipedia.org...

Religious theories have been proposed explaining the practice as the product of religious beliefs about the need to sustain the universe through the spilling of human blood.

and Cannibalism Simulation ! aka Holy wafer ( Flesh ) Wine ( Blood )

all because a Man (Adam) ate from God Favorite Fruit Tree! Giving to him By a Woman (Eve)
by a conning (reptile ) Snake ( Reptilian )

Wish people go into real Depth of a Open Mind as why would a God Need Blood or Sacrifice !

the Burnt Offering !!!!


Then again we have Kronas eating his children

reply to post by Akragon

Genesis 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Grace, God's unconditional love for all men and the promise of forgiveness of sins. When you sin, you are doing an action against love. God says that any action that one does against love, leads to the death of the soul within. Soul=Spirit, Spirit=Love, When you sin the love within you dies, and this is correct.

For the Jew, Muslim, Christian, we cannot escape these words. Instead we accepted an entire religious view based on "Original Sin". Jesus said you’re a son of God created to overcome sin in this life, the church claims this is impossible. If you have believed the church, then truly the only way to salvation is to receive forgiveness of sins. It is only when you accept forgiveness for your sins, that the love inside is reborn.

Jesus came preaching that God unconditionally loves everyone, Paul called it Grace. So it is by God's Grace, unconditional love that all are saved, universalism. Paul also believed that Jesus Christ would come in Spirit to anyone who would obey. Jesus himself said the father would send the spirit in his name to all who believe. Jesus is the Holy Spirit, the spirit of love.

If Jesus Christ is the spirit of love, love is the only righteousness, and only those who are righteous can enter heaven, then Paul is correct that no one can enter heaven apart from Christ. No one can love, nor understand love, apart from the Spirit of Love that is within a man. Salvation comes from the Spirit of Love, Christ Jesus.

This is how you know a man like Gahndi was saved, he could not teach the Spirit of Love, unless he had become one with the spirit of love. The bible says God is love, therefore it is also correct when it says anyone who has the son also has the father.

The bible is a book on the how to, and how not to, love one another. The authors of the bible believed that to worship love, was to worship God. All the profits agree that love is what the father wants.

Everyone agrees that Christ message is radically different than the OT. The interesting thing is the only truly new concept was forgiveness of sin. The only way for the Jews to be saved, because of what they had believed, was to accept forgiveness of sins. But as you can see by the way the disciples scattered even the miracles were not enough for them to feel truly forgiven, it was not until after Christ shed his BLOOD on the cross and was Resurrected that his disciples believed in his new message, forgiveness of sins.

Jesus came telling men that they were forgiven for sin, and were born to overcome it. He even told many people to go and sin no more after he healed them. Since he said it, it proves he believed it was possible for them.

How are we cleansed by Christ blood?

Anyone who believes in God's unconditional love and forgiveness of sins owes their life to the blood of Christ. For it is only by the power of the death and Resurrection of Christ that the disciples had the courage to continue his message despite knowing that in doing so they were willing martyring themselves for the belief that God loves all men and has forgiven them of all their sin.

If you believe in forgiveness in sins, then it is the BLOOD of Christ that has saved you. Since he brought the message to the world, a message the world had not known prior to his life, death, and Resurrection.

Akragon, you have been saved by the blood of Christ, because you believe in Christ message. A message that only exists today because his disciples watched him bleed to death on a cross, then come back to life three days later. If not for the resurrection, Christ message likely would have died with him.

For those of you that absolutely hate the OT. If the Jews would have followed Moses, I imagine Christ would not have been necessary. The Jews were told to spread their religion by love and through love. But instead of doing what they were told they looked down on foreigners and believed that they were the only ones who deserved God's love. But clearly Moses teaches something much different here.

Deuteronomy 10 12-21
12-13 So now Israel, what do you think GOD expects from you? Just this: Live in his presence in holy reverence, follow the road he sets out for you, love him, serve GOD, your God, with everything you have in you, obey the commandments and regulations of GOD that I’m commanding you today—live a good life.

14-18 Look around you: Everything you see is GOD’s—the heavens above and beyond, the Earth, and everything on it. But it was your ancestors who GOD fell in love with; he picked their children—that’s you!—out of all the other peoples. That’s where we are right now. So cut away the thick calluses from your heart and stop being so willfully hardheaded. GOD, your God, is the God of all gods, he’s the Master of all masters, a

God immense and powerful and awesome. He doesn’t play favorites, takes no bribes, makes sure orphans and widows are treated fairly, takes loving care of foreigners by seeing that they get food and clothing.

19-21 You must treat foreigners with the same loving care—
remember, you were once foreigners in Egypt.

Reverently respect GOD, your God, serve him, hold tight to him,
back up your promises with the authority of his name.

He’s your praise! He’s your God!
He did all these tremendous, these staggering things
that you saw with your own eyes.

God immense and powerful and awesome. He doesn’t play favorites, takes no bribes, makes sure orphans and widows are treated fairly, takes loving care of foreigners by seeing that they get food and clothing.

You must treat foreigners with the same loving care—remember, you were once foreigners in Egypt.

Just imagine if they would have listened to Moses? If they truly loved all men and fed and clothed them, would they too not have listened to Moses? If someone loves you, feeds you, clothes you and even provides you shelter, why would you not trust the love that they believe in?

The Jews were called to usher in the Messianic age; The Christians are being called now. Heck even Astrology agrees that it's time for an age of love. Will anyone listen?

Dont forget the so called God.
like't Human sacrifice too.
but that was the Old days.
and we dont talk about that.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If Jesus was one with his Father, then how could he have a choice and no choice at the same time? That's circular and illogical thinking.

Here's an interesting question for you.

Is God good? Is God omnipotent? If God has to be good, then how could he be omnipotent? If God is omnipotent, then he can't be restricted to just doing good things. He must be capable of doing evil too. If he must do good, then he's not omnipotent. If God is good how did evil enter the world? God can't be both good and omnipotent.

reply to post by jmdewey60

(which is more difficult than it may seem on the surface, just "reading a book", right?)

And of course made more difficult when tainted by personal bias. I know what my personal bias is. I really don't like post-exile Jewish writings. They don't make any sense given that they are supposed to be a comfort to exiles returning from Babylonian Captivity. Yet, they seem to continue to talk and talk as if there were some timeless and eternal returning.

Some people may say, "But that's a metaphor for the eternal returning to God, so that's a good thing right?" but then I say, "No, because most of it was not written to be that, but rather a very earthly ambition toward World domination." "And furthermore", says I, "The tribal deity that people think they are returning to is still a tribal deity, so therefore his tribe must have top positions in World power centers". He is not the One God for all humanity. Even if he does manage to take complete control over economic and military and government of the World, he is still only a tribal deity. That will never change.

and he would have to rely on patronage from the established Jewish/Christian community in Rome.

But notice the shift he has made. Whereas in Galatians, he was very much opposed to Jerusalem interjecting itself into Gentile affairs, in Romans he speaks quite glowingly about "the saints" in Jerusalem. And he's going to stop off at Jerusalem first to "seal to them this fruit", being the monetary contribution of the Gentiles to the Jerusalem. Very post-exile language there.

If he had been primarily interested in Gentiles in Spain, he would have used Gentile money for a Gentile mission rather than bringing it to Jerusalem as a Gentile tribute to Jerusalem. Very post-exile that is.

In my opinion, Paul has adopted the post-exile writings as his personal mission statement. What could this mean except that he has become an Ebionite to the extent that Jesus has become for him "the Jewish Messiah", and he is part of "the Jewish Messianic movement" as per he personally is fulfilling the post-exile mission of bringing the nations into subjection to Jerusalem.

I'm quite certain that if Galatians Paul had seen what Romans Paul was doing, he would have "opposed him to his face"

And just to show that this is still on topic, I'll quote from the OP

Years later another man came along named Paul... Who "was" a Pharisee in his old life... a "master of the law"

This man had a miraculous conversion and suddenly preached love...

Yet he returns to the old ways of "the law" by proclaiming the blood of Jesus saves a man...

Well, indirectly on-topic. I didn't touch the blood.

reply to post by Wolfenz


It wasn't human sacrifice. It wasn't romans or jews sacrificing him. He was sacrificing himself. To them it was an execution of a criminal and heretic. To him it was self sacrifice to save people he calls his friends.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

It wasn't human sacrifice. It wasn't romans or jews sacrificing him. He was sacrificing himself. To them it was an execution of a criminal and heretic. To him it was self sacrifice to save people he calls his friends.

edit on 1-6-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

But, here is the big puzzle with self-sacrifice concept. If Jesus sacrificed himself, then why did he cry out on the cross.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [ KJV, Matthew 27:46 ]

Why was he expecting his Father to do something for him?

reply to post by Deetermined

What???!!!

Ephesians 1:1-7

That was not written by Paul. That was probably written by a follower of Paul as in "school of Paul" as a summary of Paul's teachings.

There was a time in my youth (naive youth?) when I was a member of a religious movement. When I saw that leader was drifting away from "the blood" and emphasizing "the resurrection", I opposed him with many verses from Ephesians and Colossians. I can't say that I opposed him to his face, because he put a buffer up (human shields) so that I couldn't talk to him directly.

I inadvertently changed the course of the movement, they ended up being Christian Atheist as a reaction to my "pushing the blood sacrifice"

Now that I'm not in my zealous youth, I understand now. And I see that Christian Atheism was the better choice for that movement. And it took me at least a decade to realize it. I am so awfully slow some times.

If you're interested in Christian Atheism, I like William Hamilton(recently deceased) more than Thomas J. J. Altizer. As a primer you might want to read John A.T. Robinson, Honest to God. I read that back in 1979, and now I understand it. I only thought that I understood it back then. I'm so slow!

reply to post by Deetermined

Regarding Romans 15:27, it was through and by means of the Jews that the Gentiles were brought to the knowledge of God and the Gospel of Christ.

See my comments to jmdewey.

Paul stopped emphasizing the "Universal Christ of God" and went back to "Jewish Messiah" there is a difference.

As for me. I have no reason to believe that Jesus is the Universal Christ. I have reason to believe that he is a part of Universal Christ. If I were to get some further revelation (doubt that will happen, though it is possible) that Jesus is, rather than is part of, Universal Christ of God, then I will most likely switch to some sort of modified monalterism (spelling?) and give up my polytheism.

reply to post by ironjustice

Free your mind.

Low blood-oxygen saturation pretty much does that for me. It's effects are similar to sniffing glue, though much more moderate of an effect. But it's chronic, so...

it removes the iron away from infection , stores it , to starve it , rendering the infection weak enough to eradicate it. Iron deficiency is 'treated' by eating fruit.

I have noticed certain isolations of illness occur. I didn't think of iron as one of the isolates though.

"Fruit". Thank you, sounds better than iron supplements.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Wolfenz

 

It wasn't human sacrifice. It wasn't romans or jews sacrificing him. He was sacrificing himself. To them it was an execution of a criminal and heretic. To him it was self sacrifice to save people he calls his friends.

edit on 1-6-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

What ????

where was i talking about Jesus sacrificing himself !

and you get a star for misunderstanding!!

Jesus the So Called Demi God as what I call Him ... its the Fact ... the So called God Son ....

well the Cannibalism ... simulations is pretty much like the Old Tradition of

Natives in a few Country's of when Hunting a Beast then drinking the Blood or even eating the Fresh Killed Raw Heart of a Beast so that they can be linked more to what there Hunting to make them a better Hunter !

or you going to tell me im wrong on that !! to me pretty much is what Jesus had done more less

Self Sacrifice to save People he called his Friends ! ??? and not Foe ?

I guess the Forgive them Father for they don't know what they do is pretty much screwed !!

in going into Heaven ....

Then again we have a Christian Priest walking with a man or Woman that is ready to be executed in modern day So he can save his Soul or try too before he or she gets ready for the execution at the last moment



No!!! it wasn't the Romans it was the Jews !! calling him a Heretic a False Messiah...

that even tried have Pontius Pilate the ( Roman ) ruler of the Land to deal with him
and Pontius Pilate more less refused!

and brought Jesus to Herod the Great which didnt know what to do with him !!
then Pilot asked advice to the Higher up !! a Tough Decision for Pilot and
even asked Jesus himself what to do with him

Then we had the Both Jesuses !! One Murdering Criminal One Messiah

and Pontius Pilate as the Story Goes had the Jews Decide which one to Crucify that day

and we know what the Jews in the Court Yard Decided in the choosing Right ?

Jesus Barabbas
en.wikipedia.org...

Pontius Pilate
en.wikipedia.org...

Herod the Great
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Wolfenz

Kronas eating his children

I don't think that really happened.

Propagandists for Zeus made that up. It doesn't really make sense, as if all the elements were stuck in the air or something.

On the other hand, it could have some spiritual lesson, that no one god should think to make himself the all important. Possibly an illustration of the madness of solipsism.

reply to post by pthena

That was not written by Paul. That was probably written by a follower of Paul as in "school of Paul" as a summary of Paul's teachings.

LOL! You wish!

Either way, the "school of Paul" and his followers believed that Jesus' death was a sacrifice for sin.

reply to post by pthena


John 10:15-16

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who do you think Jesus was talking about in verse 16?

He did not come to us / you to save only the jews. How can I take the children's [of israel] bread and throw it to the dogs [goyims]

reply to post by Deetermined

Me, for one. Akragon, jmdewey, sacgamer25, just off the top of my head,(my apologies to those I've missed) many and many more.

Each in his own way, each by different means, each according to who they are and where they happen to be in spiritual needs. There is a god at work. Probably working for God, we certainly hope so, because a god working for a god doesn't quite cut it.

reply to post by Akragon

Why does God require the blood of his son?

It's not so much the blood as the idea of substitution.

People have all sinned against God. Sin requires a punishment. Jesus took the punishment for sin in place of those that would believe in him.

reply to post by octotom

Sin requires a punishment.

That is not a Bible verse.
I hope that you realize that.
God can forgive us our former sins when we repent and turn away from our sins.
Jesus died for us, that is a Bible verse.
He died so that we do not have to die.
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us . . ." that is a Bible verse.
It does not mean that he died to pay for our sins or to be a substitute, but it is Jesus, though he was condemned by the Law, being accepted by God, breaking the power of the Law over us, since he was one of us.

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Me, for one. Akragon, jmdewey, sacgamer25, just off the top of my head,(my apologies to those I've missed) many and many more.

Each in his own way, each by different means, each according to who they are and where they happen to be in spiritual needs. There is a god at work. Probably working for God, we certainly hope so, because a god working for a god doesn't quite cut it.

edit on 1-6-2013 by pthena because: (no reason given)

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here in response to the verses I posted where Jesus is speaking.

Can you elaborate?