Was Jesus Christ just a man? Aetheists vs. Christians, Battle Royale

Originally posted by McCool
Jesus of Nazareth was a man who stood against corruption and religion. They killed him and made him the poster boy for corrupt religions. Very ironic. He never wanted any part of it. It must suck to be a Christian.

Where'd you hear that? Never heard that perspective before.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Yeah, it's not a new perspective. Glad you've come to hear it now.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


But how can you be so sure this "jesus" guy didnt just brainwash these people.Maybe he made them drink some hallucinagenic drink or berries or something, and then in the height of their alterd state jesus began telling them all about "god" and his wrath and love and blah blah blah. Also how do you know that these "witnesses" to his ressurection are credible and not lying? Brainwashing is a heck of a thing that will make people give up their lives for nothing more than lies.

Thanks for hearing me out.

I'm an atheist, I believe more that the universe it self runs itself. Not some spooky bearded man that lives in the sky.

As far as Jesus goes, it's possible there was a man named Jesus who was born. But I wouldn't think that he was the "son of god." I'm sure if he truly existed, all he did was start a religion. People back in earlier times were quite a bit more naive, and gullible, mostly because there was very little understanding about our universe/world. And if you had no knowledge about these things, and some nice guy comes up to you and starts explaining his version of events, some people will start to believe it, then it'll spread. But, there is pretty much no evidence that Jesus even existed. But, like I said, if he did indeed walk this Earth at one time, he would've been just a regular guy spreading a religion he came up with, nothing more. People still do it today.

reply to post by Gazrok

In other words, our new guess is different from our old guess? Yes, I'm aware of this, but simply put, it isn't "incorrect" as we simply don't know. In a few hundred billion years, look me up and we can settle it. Until then, your guess is as good as mine.

Everything we've observed, from galaxies and stars forming, etc. is cyclical in nature. Even with an accelerating universe, it doesn't mean the "cosmic crunch" idea is dead in the water.

Nope, can't happen -- the only thing that will stop the acceleration is gravity, and the continued expansion is a constant lessening of the effect of gravity on expansion. It's a self perpetuating phenomenon, and the maths show that there is no way to stop it unless the laws of physics change.

reply to post by adjensen


Has science determined that the universe is infinite? Has science determined whether or nor the universe has a confined shape?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


(I was hoping to avoid this Thread at all costs... but)

It's interesting really. Jesus stood up against the Jewish elders of the time... He openly protested corruption in the Jewish council of elders...

There is also a story where he goes crazy upon seeing people selling animals for sacrifice outside the temple...

This sort of profiteering angered him so he destroyed their stalls.... This is the only portrayal of violence in him in the entire New Testament. Otherwise he was as docile as a lamb.

He (Jesus) said to them, "Which of you, if you go to a friend at midnight, and tell him, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him,' and he from within will answer and say, 'Don't bother me. The door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give it to you'? I tell you, although he will not rise and give it to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence, he will get up and give him as many as he needs.

— Luke 11:5-8

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

Has science determined that the universe is infinite? Has science determined whether or nor the universe has a confined shape?

Pretty much, yep.

Recent measurements (c. 2001) by a number of ground-based and balloon-based experiments, including MAT/TOCO, Boomerang, Maxima, and DASI, have shown that the brightest spots are about 1 degree across. Thus the universe was known to be flat to within about 15% accuracy prior to the WMAP results. WMAP has confirmed this result with very high accuracy and precision. We now know (as of 2013) that the universe is flat with only a 0.4% margin of error. This suggests that the Universe is infinite in extent; however, since the Universe has a finite age, we can only observe a finite volume of the Universe. All we can truly conclude is that the Universe is much larger than the volume we can directly observe. (Source)

(underlining mine)

Im an athiest.
As for Jesus,well I dont think he ever existed.

That being said,its obvious the idea of jesus,did and does.
Whether it comes from a lie or a very old telling of the same story,with names changed.



And the concept of jesus isnt a bad one.
If it makes people better for believing or gives them comfort in hard times,then good comes from it.
Religion(not organised) can make people better at times.

And I liken the idea of jesus existing,to that of Santa,except at some point our parents told us the truth about Santa.

reply to post by adjensen


So science has established that the universe has an edges, ie. a ceiling and a floor? What if this room in which the universe exists has walls too? What if this room is shaped like a bagel or even like this?

So... has the battle started yet?

*yawn*

IF not... can someone wake me when it does?

reply to post by Black_Fox


LOVE that movie! Should be mandatory viewing for everyone considering ANY Abrahamic religion.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

So science has established that the universe has an edges, ie. a ceiling and a floor? What if this room in which the universe exists has walls too? What if this room is shaped like a bagel or even like this?

I don't get your point -- if you don't care what science has found, which I posted, why do you keep asking for the scientific perspective?

The best evidence that we have today is that the universe is not cyclical, and had a discrete beginning and will have a discrete end. If you wish to ignore that evidence, feel free, but that doesn't change facts.

Hay Zeus was created by Ovid, see video.....

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Its an impossible question to answer.

Personally I like to believe he did walk the earth and he was more normal than is portrayed, just a normal guy who had epiphanies and good thoughts for his fellow man.

We talk about his story being manipulated by governments and new religious teachings but as is discussed here, his was a story built on others so I dont see a problem with that. Man is always trying to shape their future and understand their past.

Records were sketchy then but good enough to make a lasting impact, the story was so powerful it has lasted quite well.
Just on the edges of lasting records where proof would be conclusive to all, this to me speaks volumes.

Dont you think it strange that so many societies talk about gods and religion. Its a human thing. This doesnt mean to say there is no god but only that I feel Jesus was just a big player in a long story.

For me Jesus was a religious man who had great visions and knowledge. Possibly didnt walk on water but I dont know for sure.

I think "is there a God" is the real battle royal

i dont know if jesus was just a man, the son of god, or god himself. there are many variances in beliefs on this.

the bible i use says things like "if you've seen me then you've seen the father."

and that he is the lord god almighty the alpha and omega beginning and the end.

but when jesus entered jerusalem they would say "hossana to the highest." and "praise be to the one who comes in the name of the lord."

some people say jesus will come back as a muslim; but the bible warns us not to add anything or take anything away from this prophetic book.

the only way something can really be prophetic is if it had the knowledge of future events in it, and some people claim we either are in revelation, or that revelation has come to pass.

but if revelation has come to pass the dead were never raised and we have yet to see christs reign for a thousand years.

I have serious doubts that Jesus existed. Someone of note possibly existed. In which case he was probably some kind of Jewish freedom fighter/terrorist against the roman state. This makes sense in context of the rest our history.

These stories point to what they represent. Symbols carry the true narrative. We originate from what is hidden and what is hidden can only be seen by the heart. A hardened heart sees only the words and surface of the onion. I have peeled back the layers and made it as evident as I can. It's your choice to remain hardened.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


So, you're saying that you know the stories aren't literal; that unschooled men wrote them and you have peeled back all of their contradictions and found...?...god?

We could read a cake recipe and do the same thing.

reply to post by adjensen


I'm not trying to make a point. I'm asking a question.

If the universe is flat, that means it has constraints, right? Or are they only perceived constraints, because of a lack of matter?

If the universe has a flat shape, that means it could have walls too, right?

Is it possible that it has a donut shape?

If you don't know the answer, I assure you, you're in good company.

I have started my own take on things on another thread here. Even Einstein said that "God does not roll dice with the universe"... I think creation is a symphony and we are still trying to figure the notes out...