Was Jesus Christ just a man? Aetheists vs. Christians, Battle Royale

reply to post by Lingweenie


The universe runs itself? .....Sorry made me chuckle a bit...

Planets alignments perfect.....Sun perfect distance from earth.....Human beings and how advanced of a race we are....Gigantic planets that all serve their own purpose.....Life of everything on earth.....Systems inside a human body....All perfectly synchronized to work perfectly in harmony.......And it came from nothing and runs itself for no reason?

That is what gave me the slight chuckle....There it is once again, sorry .....Not chuckling at you, just the thought of not really thinking about life and things more in depth....That is a very simple outlook and nothing around you is simple

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Glass and Ceramic - God makes it evident.

Oh, please tell me you're joking when it comes to this link? Let's rewrite it and use water and rock instead. How about steak and dirt? Point being, if you want to find a meaning, you WILL find it.

Originally posted by GoShredAK
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I've always been curious, are we required to be physically baptized in order to be truly saved?

Or is accepting him as your savior and doing your best to live in a righteous way enough?

Accepting Christ is taking on the character. Taking the name in vain is taking it apart from living it. If you are alive today, you are baptized into the waters of life already. Baptism in a church is symbolic of being born again into the waters. Do you need to live again or are you here now as your baptism? Uncertain. I have no way to know and none of us can know. I am under the assumption that this the first resurrection. All 7 billion of us are in the water for the reason stated by Paul and Enoch.

Paul (Acts 24)

I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.

Both the righteous and wicked must be present in the end times.

Enoch One

1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be
2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his
parable and said −Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One
in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood
as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.

These words are 5125 years old. Mayan Long Count and Enoch's Message from God to the Watchers

The 70 generation clock mentioned by Enoch ran down on December 21st, 2012. To repent, we must turn toward truth and away from being a thief. Selfishness is the mark of the animal nature.

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

If you read verses 3-5, there are 18 identifiers (6+6+6). He says, "Mark This!" I think it is clear what is being implied. Many of my last posts have covered this topic. Salvation comes from faith in God and faith comes by taking the name of Christ (His Character of Love for others). Romans 10: 17 "Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."

What am I bringing here to ATS? Something for you to hear. Faith comes by this pathway. Once you hear, your inner man will listen.

GOD IS JESUS FATHER

People HAVE been fed so many lies which have mixed with the truth but the truth is still there. I was an atheist but I NOW BELIEVE IN GOD and FIRST let me say JESUS IS GOD'S SON but He was and is still fully human and because of the work He did ALL HUMANS have become God's children and like Jesus are sinless.

Jesus abolished SIN for all mankind weather you believe it or not (sin is a spiritual sickness which when left untreated leads to obliteration (obliteration is the total annihilation of the conciseness)(no more existence, NOT eternal damnation but simply put cease to exist and never will again).

The bible calls Jesus the firstborn of the dead which is why we call Him our king and king of all kings because he was and is and always will be THE FIRST SINLESS HUMAN to die on earth and because of the work he did.... well lets just say that there is an AMAZING eternity planned for EACH AND EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BIENG WHO EVER LIVED AND DIED ON EARTH! with the exception of NONE! YOU, YOU, YOU and YOU, you will all end up in heaven one day with God regardless of your actions on earth (does not give you a licence to hurt others or yourself) but you can if you want BUT you CAN also chose to be good and serve others, regardless YOU are going to heaven be it sooner or later and there is NOTHING you can do about it: it's not about what you or I can do or have done, it IS all about the WORK JESUS already did.

You have a nice surprise coming and you may not even know it RELAX JESUS WORK CANNOT BE UNDONE!

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

The universe runs itself?

.....Sorry made me chuckle a bit...

Planets alignments perfect.....Sun perfect distance from earth.....Human beings and how advanced of a race we are....Gigantic planets that all serve their own purpose.....Life of everything on earth.....Systems inside a human body....All perfectly synchronized to work perfectly in harmony.......And it came from nothing and runs itself for no reason?

That is what gave me the slight chuckle....There it is once again, sorry

.....Not chuckling at you, just the thought of not really thinking about life and things more in depth....That is a very simple outlook and nothing around you is simple

Actually, the universe does run itself and everything is in synchronicity. Matter was formed from nothingness. The key is in Genesis: Quantum sound theory

Life is indeed a symphony

Originally posted by jiggerj

These stories point to what they represent. Symbols carry the true narrative. We originate from what is hidden and what is hidden can only be seen by the heart. A hardened heart sees only the words and surface of the onion. I have peeled back the layers and made it as evident as I can. It's your choice to remain hardened.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

So, you're saying that you know the stories aren't literal; that unschooled men wrote them and you have peeled back all of their contradictions and found...?...god?

We could read a cake recipe and do the same thing.

The Word of God is Christ and that word created us. It is woven into our hearts, and yes, that story is mirrored in our own works of art. The Bible is the same mirror, only holding a special impression of the true Word of God. Our DNA is the same. The book of life is the same as the tree of life, only the book records the expression of the tree. Like many branches leading to new seed, our own lives perpetuate our own unique expression from the original seed that grew the tree. The Bible is its own manifestation of the same tree of life. Are the stories true to the actual events of history? In most cases they are. In some cases, the truth of the story is a shadow of the events told in a way veiling what they actually represent. Much like your body (Image of your own word) represents something facing the Father in Heaven.

Matthew 18

10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.

Much of the true word is hidden for the one that possesses the key to unlocking the meaning.

For instance, Word is essentially information with purpose. As you have read from many of my posts, the true nature of our reality is locked within the veiled meaning of the story. Carbon is 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons. We find it in Revelation 13 as the mark of mankind, which we know as 6, or the 6th element on the periodic table. Revelation calls it our mark of commerce from a world government. Is it accurate? What did the generation 300 years ago see this as representing? It's only unlocked by the ones that need to know. Looking back, we will be able to see the truth behind the hidden nature. Today, we are merely left to see the evident truth emerging before us. I will not scoff simply because I lack the ability to fully realize the enigma. I leave it up to God to explain later. I will simply value the reflecting point now and try to see ahead to a bright future. That future dictates my choices, but I am a sinner like you. I stumble often.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Glass and Ceramic - God makes it evident.

Oh, please tell me you're joking when it comes to this link? Let's rewrite it and use water and rock instead. How about steak and dirt? Point being, if you want to find a meaning, you WILL find it.

Sorry, but the meaning comes from the entire context, not the isolated part you choose to scoff at. Consider the entire 10 page commentary I did on the Gospel of Philip and you will see the story come alive.

Gospel of Philip

I have given the meaning of the symbols for you. Read the entire Gospel and you hear everything I have ever said on ATS repeated like a mirror from this work of antiquity. You are implying that I am making it up as I go. I am showing you that the story is consistent from beginning to end. I am merely a parrot for the truth.

Remember, TRUTH in Hebrew is three letter. Alpah Omega and MEM in the middle. Aleph MEM Tav. Tav is two crossed sticks (The Corss) and MEM is water (River of life / Jordan). It's a unified story and there is no way to scoff it way. You will be denied at every turn.

Originally posted by Spawn2001
I never really went to church, I just tried to philosophize myself. I heard aetheists being compared to a " sleeping rock" . How does life happen. With all the millions of different life forms on this planet, just here one day. I was born a catholic but never went to church and oblivious to the teachings. Some might consider me questioning things blasfamy.

God calls you a truth seeker not a blasphemer!

If God is your father then He IS good and a good, loving, gentle, kind father would not accuse you of blasphemy just for questioning the world around you INFACT he would praise you for in my view you are a truth seeker. there is nothing wrong with the roman catholic way or any religious way. The devil brings fear and doubt about the afterlife and life and everything, God brings light and clarity it’s up to us to find God in all this mess we call a world, but FEAR NOT, no matter if you are evil incarnate or mother Theresa or in-between. if you are a human then your destiny is to be with God forever and ever in pure bliss and comfort. A baby is born into this life in blood and pain and that is how we are born into the next life and the next life will last billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of years with no pain, this life is but a blip on the radar.

I myself can see this truth as plain as day and am happy to begin my REAL life one day. Jesus is MY king and God is in my heart forever.

Originally posted by On the level
I have faith, Im not tied to a religion so dont really care what Atheists think, I live me life, do not want to change others opinions and just treat people as I meet them and try to do good. I wish there was more people like me.

I don't really know what your Ideas of the afterlife are BUT you hit the nail on the head! Live your life and do good is the ONLY way to truly have satisfaction from this life. To many people trying to gain material wealth through corrupt means which only makes life more difficult for the rest of us

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by Spawn2001

 

He Is the SON OF GOD Baby , and when he RETURNS , it's gonna be HELL To Pay for All of Us..........

CARE to elaborate?

I myself know this to be untrue. Jesus will return to save us (humans) from self inflicted extinction caused by world war III. If there is HELL it is of our own making. The only creature who will pay for the crimes of humanity at the judgement at the end of the world will be the devil himself and he will be OBLITERATED (cease to exist.) mankind will inherit eternal life and face eternity with God which will be billions and billions and billions and billions of years add infinitum.) Mankind will make peace with God sooner or later I hope its sooner but I know better...

reply to post by Covertblack


Man oh man are you in for a shock. You don’t want to live in the afterlife and these feelings after only living on earth for how long? shame for you man: I’ve got terrible news for you then . . . . . the afterlife is going to be billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of years long so you should try to find a way to make peace with it. I find that finding ways to enjoy my life help and not letting people judge me also helps. Today’s religion has tried to cover up this fact and make us so worried about everything when this life is nothing but a technicality. You have not even started to live yet! Don’t worry when you get there you will change your mind. God will show you His glory

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by adjensen

 

I'm not trying to make a point. I'm asking a question.

If the universe is flat, that means it has constraints, right? Or are they only perceived constraints, because of a lack of matter?

No, there are no constraints, there is just a delimiter between where the universe is and where it hasn't expanded into yet.

If the universe has a flat shape, that means it could have walls too, right?

No, there are no "walls", unless they exist outside of the expansion demarkation, which is irrational.

Is it possible that it has a donut shape?

Anything is possible, but the arguments that I've seen for it are less than convincing.

I don't think he was even a man. I think Jesus is just a fictional character in a children's book meant to scare them into being good. Ten commandments anyone?

Since this is more phylisophical then anything else i answer.

First was he a mere man the answer has to be no since 2000 yrs after his death he still shapes civilization name one other person who has done this he single handedly shaped western society. He gave us our laws yes people common law is based on the bible. So now we move on was he the son of god yes but according to jesus we all are gods children so that was easy. Now the really really hard part did god command him well yes as long as he believed it was true and by all indications i think he did. So if he believed it if god is imaginary or real doesnt matter it shaped his actions. And his actions shaped the world so yes his god commanded him and yes his god createdour cuurent world.

Now i know the next question is there truly a god right? Well that depends on you if you believe and it shapes your actions as well then yeah there is for you. As for me well i believe more in balance so for me there isnta god more cause and effect. But if you ask me is there a god my answer is still yes to many people.

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

The universe runs itself?

.....Sorry made me chuckle a bit...

Planets alignments perfect.....Sun perfect distance from earth.....Human beings and how advanced of a race we are....Gigantic planets that all serve their own purpose.....Life of everything on earth.....Systems inside a human body....All perfectly synchronized to work perfectly in harmony.......And it came from nothing and runs itself for no reason?

That is what gave me the slight chuckle....There it is once again, sorry

.....Not chuckling at you, just the thought of not really thinking about life and things more in depth....That is a very simple outlook and nothing around you is simple

Yes, the universe is governed by what we call "laws." And more importantly energy powers everything in the universe. Light is energy, heat is energy, food is energy, oil is energy, etc. Organic creatures need energy in order to survive, vehicles need energy in order to operate. And stars such as our sun run on the process of fusion for their energy. I don't see how saying universal forces and energy move/operate the universe is funny.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I have given the meaning of the symbols for you. Read the entire Gospel

No. It is you that needs to STOP reading it. You are so enmeshed with your beliefs that you find meaning in everything in the bible. Have you figured out the meaning of the page numbers? Is there a secret just waiting to be discovered if you read the bible backwards?

I do not need to find hidden meanings in the bible, but I would REALLY love for YOU to do is to pick a book - ANY nonreligious book - and see if you can find messages from god in it. Personally, I'm betting you can if you really wanted to.

Originally posted by izero
I have serious doubts that Jesus existed. Someone of note possibly existed. In which case he was probably some kind of Jewish freedom fighter/terrorist against the roman state. This makes sense in context of the rest our history.

Damn, that would be a great plot for a book/movie/tv show. Jesus as a freedom fighter against the Roman state.

All I am going to say is I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, Jesus Christ was NOT a Christian, he did NOT write in any of the books in the bible, and he was not a white guy. All the claims made that he was the son of God was taken out of context as he actually meant we are all children of the source of creation i.e the living material beings within the universe. This can be either interpreted literally of metaphorically. A stone may contain low vibrating atoms but it is not animated, however animals like like ourselves are animated atoms with the will to roam, think, feel as we please, well in a certain context. Thus we are the product of life and under the creation of ''God'' or the living Universe.

Jesus most definitely made an impact with his unorthodox ideals and morals against a hierarchic fascist regime and his rebellious spirit lives in all of us. That spirit to stand up against oppression and fight for our individuality united through the bonds of love and respect for life and its right to be experienced by all no matter what separates our race,age,or status. Well that's my 2cents and an opinion just as valid as the latter. PS ever heard of the broken telephone effect, now imagine spreading a story of any kind for over two thousand years and expecting it to be exactly the same. Especially with the ruling class being able to forge such a powerful story for their own sinister agenda, but just use the name Jesus in your sentence and you are automatically trusted by the blind. Pshhhh! the ironic part of this post is the continuous circles in arguments and offense it will produce considering the subjective nature of belief.

Smart move OP you started a wild fire

So bascially this thread comes down to YES,NO,YES,NO,YES,NO.YES,NO,YES,NO,YES,NO,YES,NO...

Originally posted by Spawn2001
Hi, let me just start by saying I was born Catholic and have not been practicing all my life. I am an agnostic and don't have a closed mind. I will be the refery. I have never read the Bible except for Revelations, and thinking it was code or the rapture might mean heaven on earth.

At the dawn of civilization, a man came forward named Jesus. Was he a martyr or a kamikaze. Willing to die for his beliefs. Like a super hero and his works more important. The last 2000 years have been rough, no doctors or anesthetic , no cops. They said he rose from the dead , but there were no photographs or video. The apostle s might have realized his works were to important to be ignored, and might have exaggerated a few things. He brought back a man from the dead, but was that code for what he did with heaven. Lazarus I think was his name.

Most people don't ask themselves questions like this. I had a near fatal head injury and almost died. I was in a coma, and had the right side of my body paralyzed. With a scar on inside of right wrist just like Revelations. When I was 17 people thought or I got framed for a gun scare. In 2001 , the Millenium just like it was supposed to happen. The beast gains an empire . Music had subliminals in it that were the Freemasons and the NWO. I tried to decipher revelations a million different ways if I was a part of it?

I thought of an interesting thread. I always see lots of aetheists around and was curious as to what they would say.

I can tell you from my knowledge obtained through meditation.

Jesus was a prophet who predicted future events and taught the duties and obligations of humans as per the laws of God. A lot of what he taught was symbolic (through parables) as his listeners could not understand what he said. Later his teachings were falsified by vested interests and a religion was created based on falsified teachings which is called 'Christianity' today. This religion contains an insignificant part of Jesus's teachings and it is mostly the same books being used that were used by pagans in their temples for satanic rituals.

Almost the same story exists in case of Muhammad where a religion was created on the basis of falsified teaching of Muhammad.