Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

reply to post by truejew


Do you mean when Jesus was baptized in the river by John the Baptist? I can see Christians wanting to perform similar acts. But is it necessary to be baptized?

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen

 

I sent an email to the author of the study that I found the quotes on. Asking for info on the Catholic Encyclopedia quote and to see if his use of it was in ignorance. The email address is no longer in use. So that is a dead end.

What is the link to where you copy/pasted those from?

A Collection of Evidence Against the Traditional Wording of Matthew 28:19

Archive.org wayback machine dates that to 2009, which coincides with this YouTube video which also dates to 2009.

However, I believe that I have tracked down the original source, twenty years earlier:

* The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, 263: "The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."

Christians today should use the biblical baptismal formula as found in the New Testament. Everyone should be baptized by immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

(The above material appeared in a May 1989 issue of Pentecostal Herald." Christian Information Network (Source)

On the basis of that, blame can apparently be laid at the feet of the Oneness Pentecostals associated with the UPC.

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by truejew

 

Do you mean when Jesus was baptized in the river by John the Baptist? I can see Christians wanting to perform similar acts. But is it necessary to be baptized?

The baptism of Jesus was unto repentance. The baptism that is necessary, is baptism in Jesus name for the remission of sins. It is during baptism in Jesus name that sins are remitted by God through our faith.

Although Protestants today may try to tell you that baptism is not necessary, Martin Luther, who started the Protestant Reformation had the following to say...

"Hence it follows that whoever rejects Baptism rejects the Word of God, faith, and Christ, who directs us thither and binds us to Baptism." (The Large Catechism by Martin Luther XIII Part Fourth Of Baptism)

reply to post by adjensen


Oh no, not David K. Bernard

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

I suggest reading John. It declares that people who believe already possess eternal life. Baptism is great, I'm not diminishing it's significance in a believer's life. Bit it doesn't give a person saving faith. It's something people that already have faith do.

The New Testament is clear, water baptism is a necessary act of faith, just like repentance is.

I agree, but getting wet doesn't give someone faith.

reply to post by adjensen


Thanks.

I think it's a little weird that I asked TJ twice for the link and he ignored it, both times.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

I suggest reading John. It declares that people who believe already possess eternal life. Baptism is great, I'm not diminishing it's significance in a believer's life. Bit it doesn't give a person saving faith. It's something people that already have faith do.

The New Testament is clear, water baptism is a necessary act of faith, just like repentance is.

I agree, but getting wet doesn't give someone faith.

I never said it did. Baptism is the persons faith in action.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by adjensen

 

Thanks.

I think it's a little weird that I asked TJ twice for the link and he ignored it, both times.

I did not. I saw your first request, went to get the link, came back to post it, and saw that you had asked a second time.

My post with the info is right after your second request.

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen

 

Oh no, not David K. Bernard

Well, it certainly would explain why Reckart wouldn't include it, lol.

I suppose that I've simply added fuel to your fire against the UPC, but the truth is the truth, no matter how it's used.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

I suggest reading John. It declares that people who believe already possess eternal life. Baptism is great, I'm not diminishing it's significance in a believer's life. Bit it doesn't give a person saving faith. It's something people that already have faith do.

The New Testament is clear, water baptism is a necessary act of faith, just like repentance is.

I agree, but getting wet doesn't give someone faith.

I never said it did. Baptism is the persons faith in action.

Yeah, so is tithing, so is giving to the poor, so is honoring one's parents. A ton of things are faith in action.

But none of those produce faith, they are the result of faith.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by adjensen

 

Thanks.

I think it's a little weird that I asked TJ twice for the link and he ignored it, both times.

I did not. I saw your first request, went to get the link, came back to post it, and saw that you had asked a second time.

My post with the info is right after your second request.

edit on 31-5-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

Then I apologize. I missed that post.

Let me go back because I wanted to read it all.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

I suggest reading John. It declares that people who believe already possess eternal life. Baptism is great, I'm not diminishing it's significance in a believer's life. Bit it doesn't give a person saving faith. It's something people that already have faith do.

The New Testament is clear, water baptism is a necessary act of faith, just like repentance is.

I agree, but getting wet doesn't give someone faith.

I never said it did. Baptism is the persons faith in action.

Yeah, so is tithing, so is giving to the poor, so is honoring one's parents. A ton of things are faith in action.

But none of those produce faith, they are the result of faith.

However, remission of sins does not take place in tithing and the other things you mentioned, only in baptism.

Again, baptism does not produce faith, it is faith in action.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by adjensen

 

Thanks.

I think it's a little weird that I asked TJ twice for the link and he ignored it, both times.

I did not. I saw your first request, went to get the link, came back to post it, and saw that you had asked a second time.

My post with the info is right after your second request.

edit on 31-5-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

Then I apologize. I missed that post.

Let me go back because I wanted to read it all.

That is ok. We are both human. Humans aren't perfect and can miss posts. Especially when they are being added so quickly.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

I suggest reading John. It declares that people who believe already possess eternal life. Baptism is great, I'm not diminishing it's significance in a believer's life. Bit it doesn't give a person saving faith. It's something people that already have faith do.

The New Testament is clear, water baptism is a necessary act of faith, just like repentance is.

I agree, but getting wet doesn't give someone faith.

NTT,

I think you are helping TJ. Thanks for your commentary too. On water baptism, it has to happen, it is
the first time we receive God's presence in our soul. There are the other forms, baptism of blood and baptism
of desire. Water baptism is not an optional.

I worry about my brother's children, He has not had them baptized. I pray and pray....

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

I suggest reading John. It declares that people who believe already possess eternal life. Baptism is great, I'm not diminishing it's significance in a believer's life. Bit it doesn't give a person saving faith. It's something people that already have faith do.

The New Testament is clear, water baptism is a necessary act of faith, just like repentance is.

I agree, but getting wet doesn't give someone faith.

NTT,

I think you are helping TJ. Thanks for your commentary too. On water baptism, it has to happen, it is
the first time we receive God's presence in our soul. There are the other forms, baptism of blood and baptism
of desire. Water baptism is not an optional.

I worry about my brother's children, He has not had them baptized. I pray and pray....

My teaching has not changed. Baptism is necessary. It must be done in the name of Jesus Christ and with faith to be valid.

I do not see these other forms of baptism that you speak of in Scripture.

reply to post by truejew


Do I need to point to the plethora of people who are redeemed and now in heaven from the Bible who were never water baptized?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Do I need to point to the plethora of people who are redeemed and now in heaven from the Bible who were never water baptized?

Again, only those who were alive from the first day of Pentecost after the crucifixion until the post-trib rapture can obey faith baptism in Jesus name. Those who lived before... their faith was seen through their attempts to live by God's commandments while awaiting the future coming Messieh and His plan of salvation.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Do I need to point to the plethora of people who are redeemed and now in heaven from the Bible who were never water baptized?

Again, only those who were alive from the first day of Pentecost after the crucifixion until the post-trib rapture can obey faith baptism in Jesus name. Those who lived before... their faith was seen through their attempts to live by God's commandments while awaiting the future coming Messieh and His plan of salvation.

edit on 1-6-2013 by truejew because: (no reason given)

Again, not true. Christ sent His followers out two by two to make converts before the cross and before Pentecost. Pentecost is just the birth of the ekklesia. God isn't a respecter of persons, the scripture is clear in that regard. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. Paul makes the same argument comparing Abraham and David.

Originally posted by truejew
My teaching has not changed. Baptism is necessary. It must be done in the name of Jesus Christ and with faith to be valid.

To that end, have you been baptized in Jesus' real name yet? If not, your own teaching there condemns you.

By the way, can a person who wasn't baptized "in the name of Jesus" baptize someone "in the name of Jesus"? Let's say I fell on my head and when I came to, I suddenly believed, wholeheartedly, what you claim -- could I go around baptizing people "in the name of Jesus", because I use the right words and I have faith? Or would they be invalid baptisms because I was baptized "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit"?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Do I need to point to the plethora of people who are redeemed and now in heaven from the Bible who were never water baptized?

Jesus came to reveal the greater plan, He humbly was water baptized by John the Baptist. This is the New
Covenant, water baptism is not an optional NTT. Yes, yes, there is baptism of desire and baptism of blood,
martyrdom. The normal means of baptism is water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.