Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
You do realize that you are a heretic according to your Catholic Church don't you?

I have never claimed to be in full compliance with the teachings of the Catholic Church, but neither do I claim that the Church teaches something that it does not. Unlike you, my faith is not rooted in legalism, and I do not believe that God is a cruel tyrant with an arbitrary checklist of esoteric works and rituals that must be attended to in order to be saved.

I always figured the Holy Spirit was telling the truth in Romans 10:9-10. In such simple terms a child could understand.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
You do realize that you are a heretic according to your Catholic Church don't you?

I have never claimed to be in full compliance with the teachings of the Catholic Church, but neither do I claim that the Church teaches something that it does not. Unlike you, my faith is not rooted in legalism, and I do not believe that God is a cruel tyrant with an arbitrary checklist of esoteric works and rituals that must be attended to in order to be saved.

I always figured the Holy Spirit was telling the truth in Romans 10:9-10. In such simple terms a child could understand.

Exactly.

Something I am fond of saying (usually in relation to things other than religion,) is "why have 32 flavours when you can't get vanilla right?" Christianity is so steadfastly simple in its teachings that I have never understood why people feel the need to pile on all that doctrine, rule following and obfuscation, and it's why I believe that the "true church", if it ever existed, did so prior to the complications and schisms.

Why Reckart and his crew heap on legalistic nonsensical bindings when there is neither any call for it, but actual Biblical teaching against it, I will never know. I assume it's elitism and self-doubt, but I seriously cannot comprehend how anyone could follow it in the face of the logical impossibilities that it demonstrates. I have yet to see any claim of his that I haven't been able to rip apart, simply through reason and/or available evidence.

reply to post by adjensen

Christianity is so steadfastly simple in its teachings that I have never understood why people feel the need to pile on all that doctrine, rule following and obfuscation, and it's why I believe that the "true church", if it ever existed, did so prior to the complications and schisms.

You referencing denominationalism? It's because denominations cannot all agree on what it says. Baptise into this denomination for this doctrine, sprinkle into that denomination for that doctrine. One thing i never understood was why i had to be baptised twice as a christian, once as pentecostal, next as baptist and then after that i said to hell with denominationalism and declared non-denom. You are right, people try to make this more complicated than what it really is. I try to follow the royal law as much as possible and stick with the council of Jerusalem and let the rest of it sort itself out. Life is complicated enough as it is. It's hard enough trying to make it through one day to the next.

reply to post by adjensen


Well, history shows that when grace is either misunderstood or not applied the result is always an erosion into legalism.

Thread dead?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Thread dead?

After only 74 pages, of which probably 72 are off topic posts, lol.

reply to post by adjensen


It was fun while it lasted. You murdered it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well, it's doubtful that my arguments had much impact on our indoctrinated friend, but perhaps we can hope that with enough cracks in the veneer of Gary Reckart's theology, enlightenment may one day occur.

On topic, I think that it is reasonable to conclude that any person who proclaims the Nicene Creed as being true can be considered a "Christian", and doctrinal and denominational differences are matters of human disagreement that do not disqualify a brother or sister from God's mercy. Personally, I'd lay odds to any particular church or pastor's theology being 100% correct at about a bazillion to one, and that includes my own.

In a world that is seeing increasing secularization and perversion of the faith, not merely by non-Christians like Reckart who wish to hijack Christ into their alternative reality theology, but by supposedly professed Christians like the Episcopal Church of America, those of us who wish to remain firmly ensconced in the Creed would be better served by highlighting the similarities of fellow believers, rather than our differences.

reply to post by adjensen


I'm more basic than the creed. I believe anyone who holds to Romans 10:9-10, 1 Corinthians CH. 15, or Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21 will be saved and can sit with me as a brother or sister in Christ. I don't know if you know this about me, but I gave up denominational Christianity a while ago. I hate divisions on minor details and the traditions of long dead elders elevated to commandments of God. (Mark 7)

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I think that God leads us to where we need to be. For you and LoneWolf, that is non-denominationalism, for me, it is the Roman Catholic Church. When I look back at my life, I can see signs of being led in that direction since I was about 17 years old.

Why do I believe this? I thought about it today, when I spent an hour at Eucharistic Adoration.

Because I am happy in my spiritual life, NuT, for the first time in a long time, if not forever. Decades of searching, and I think that I'm finally where I need to be. And I think that you are, as well, even though we're not in the same place, though I again put that off to matters of doctrine that probably don't matter to God.

And that, I think, is the ultimate failure of Gary Reckart's theology, which teaches that God doesn't care one iota about anyone who doesn't follow some very specific path and process that is only understood by a select few who distort scripture in a very specific way. An exclusive and elitist religion, if you will.

Instead, scripture teaches that God is an inclusive and open God, who loves his children as only a father could. Who would reject his son, because he had joined the Elks, rather than the Moose?

The truth of the matter is that God leads us where we need to be, when we allow him to. Maybe truejew needs to be with his cult, maybe he needs to be led out of it. But the difference between he and I is that I believe that God is greater than all of this, and if he chooses to welcome truejew into the Kingdom of God, that is his prerogative, not mine.

reply to post by adjensen

I believe anyone who holds to Romans 10:9-10, 1 Corinthians CH. 15, or Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21 will be saved and can sit with me as a brother or sister in Christ.

Well to quote NuT from above i agree. Yet there are things we were given to know and never do by his Apostles, like the Council of Jerusalem, i believe we are still supposed to adhere to. Jesus didn't create a democracy where people come and vote on wether or not it's kosher to change what was set down at the beginning. A queen doesn't change the king's laws, unless he is dead and she takes the throne and thats where things after Nicea start to fall apart.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by adjensen

 

I believe anyone who holds to Romans 10:9-10, 1 Corinthians CH. 15, or Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21 will be saved and can sit with me as a brother or sister in Christ.

Well to quote NuT from above i agree. Yet there are things we were given to know and never do by his Apostles, like the Council of Jerusalem, i believe we are still supposed to adhere to. Jesus didn't create a democracy where people come and vote on wether or not it's kosher to change what was set down at the beginning. A queen doesn't change the king's laws, unless he is dead and she takes the throne and thats where things after Nicea start to fall apart.

Your second sentence, God's authority was given to the Apostles of who Christ made one of them leader. Same for Christ's Church, Peter headed the Church. The Apostles would die, then what? Their authority was/is passed down. It is called Apostolic Succession. We can know to this day.

Protestantism came along in the 16th century. Where is Protestantism's Apostolic Succession?

It is not your fault, a person's upbringing. People change in discovering something new, ie adjensen. Many Protestant pastors, when they looked at the complete history before the "Reformation" ( I am being nice) and they read the quotes of the men taught by the Apostles, they changed, they see the one and only faith is Roman Catholicism. They convert.

How come you speak of Nicea and the Council of Jerusalem? When you have a disagreement, take it to the Church. The written Word doesn't say take it to the Bible. The Council of Jerusalem and Nicea are both Roman Catholic Councils. You have to put it together, Jesus established one faith (Eph 4:5). Heretics broke away.

And do not forget Jesus promise to Peter, the first Pope. Our Lord said "the gates of Hell will not overcome
My Church" in Matt 16:18. Christ's teachings are the same today, so to believe "things fell apart" after
Nicea would make Our Lord a liar. Can't be, He knows the past and the future.


God bless you lonewolf,


colbe

reply to post by colbe

How come you speak of Nicea and the Council of Jerusalem? When you have a disagreement, take it to the Church. The written Word doesn't say take it to the Bible. The Council of Jerusalem and Nicea are both Roman Catholic Councils. You have to put it together, Jesus established one faith (Eph 4:5). Heretics broke away.

LOL, do you seriously believe that stuff? The Council of Jerusalem came before there was even a church in Rome, so how was it a roman catholic council when roman catholicism hadn't even existed yet?

Corruption started seeping into the church near the end of the first century, by the time Eusebius became Pope, the cult of Mithra had already infiltrated the catholic church's ranks, brought in by the officers in the roman legions. Peter wasn't the first Pope and he for sure wasn't buried in Rome, his tomb is in Bethany on the Mt. of Olives. Jesus didn't found Roman Catholicism, he founded The Way, something you folks strayed away from when you started putting your eucharist into a sungod idol and worshipping it and worshipping Ashtoreth the queen of heaven whom you say is Mary the "mother of God" and his "wife" that is truly a play on Nimrod and his mother and wife Semiramis.

So we're heretics because we didn't want to be idolaters? That's a laugh.



But putting a cross on it makes it kosher right?



Mary sitting on the Ark, ontop of a crescent moon with a starburst in her chest. You know what symbol that looks like?



Here's an ancient version.



Solar disc mounted upon the crescents of an apis-bull, used in worship of a couple egyptian gods.



Pope wears the robes of a highpriest of Dagon.



Pope stopped using the fish train around the Renaissance, the Mitre is still there.





You're ass deep in paganism and don't know it and you want to claim apostolic succession? I've told you before you need to examine your rituals, your litanies, your "icons". If the sheep are scattered, it's because of worthless shepherds who destroyed the Lord's herds, denying them spiritual food by outlawing reading the scriptures and reading and writing in general when the Dark Ages began.

The Lord makes his own proclaimations against your church in Revelations 2 in the Smyrna, Pergamos and Thyatira church ages.

Revelation 2:8-26

8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”’

The Compromising Church
12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,

‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

17 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.”’

The Corrupt Church
18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,

‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent.22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

24 “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’—

as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.

29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


So much for my efforts at ecumenicalism and tolerance within the Christian community, lol.

Is it any wonder that Christianity is on the wane and attacked from all sides when we're so busy picking nits with each other over matters that are of no consequence beyond personal points of issue?

There are reasonable responses, of course, to all of your criticisms -- the Monstrance, for example, is shaped the way that it is to reflect, not the sun, but to reflect that Christ is the light of the world (John 8:12) -- but I'm tired of pointing out the obvious and tired of all the sniping between Christians. Hate on the Catholics all you like, simply because they have different beliefs than you do.

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12 NIV)

(Note that, while this post was in response to you, it is every bit also directed at Colbe and her constant sniping at Protestants. Although I am a Catholic, I think that attitude is every bit as bad as Protestant anti-Catholicism.)

May I ask why is it when Catholics speak of their faith they most generally say Catholics and Christians believe this or that. Why the distinction between Catholic and Christian? If all who believe in Christ are Christian why the distinction between the two?

reply to post by guitarplayer


I'm not much of a Catholic, but I don't make such a distinction. Christianity is the religion, Roman Catholic is my denomination, just as the Methodists, Baptists and Eastern Orthodox are denominations.

I don't consider anyone who conforms to the Nicene Creed to be a separate religion, though those who reject the creed, in any part, are not Christians, by the definition of the term.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Thread dead?

He's baaaaaaaaaack

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So much for my efforts at ecumenicalism and tolerance within the Christian community, lol.

Is it any wonder that Christianity is on the wane and attacked from all sides when we're so busy picking nits with each other over matters that are of no consequence beyond personal points of issue?

There are reasonable responses, of course, to all of your criticisms -- the Monstrance, for example, is shaped the way that it is to reflect, not the sun, but to reflect that Christ is the light of the world (John 8:12) -- but I'm tired of pointing out the obvious and tired of all the sniping between Christians. Hate on the Catholics all you like, simply because they have different beliefs than you do.

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12 NIV)

(Note that, while this post was in response to you, it is every bit also directed at Colbe and her constant sniping at Protestants. Although I am a Catholic, I think that attitude is every bit as bad as Protestant anti-Catholicism.)

You didn't need to leave your note.

You are holy I am not. I am trying to share the end times messages and what they say. It is difficult with so
much anti-Catholicism. You read it here. Defend the faith, try to share what Christ gave the Apostles and has
passed onto the faithful. Have you ever read the terrible personal comments and you now add to them.

It must go back to another subject, your unkind remarks?

reply to post by guitarplayer

Dear guitarplayer,

Please excuse me for butting in. I have a slightly different answer than adjensen's but it's not a significantly different one.

I will sometimes specify Catholic if it seems appropriate to the converstaion. Catholicism is one set of beliefs, and Protestantism is a whole cluster of beliefs. Narrowing it down to Catholicism sometimes simplifies the discussion. Also, Catholicism has one set of beliefs, they're written and fairly clear. (Besides, I know it better.)

But I absolutely agree that Christianity is the family I belong to, and I do my best not to get into fights within the family.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I can't put up your reply and pics so people can read what you said because there are no more characters left to reply. Do not believe anti-Catholicism lonewolf. God wants everyone on the earth to become Roman Catholic. And Heaven says "soon", definitely in our way of understanding "soon", in our lifetime, God is going to show every person on the earth the true faith, the state of our soul as God sees it in an NDE like life review. It is going to happen.

I'll address the paganism falsehood. There is a Protestant pastor, his name is Woodrow, He wrote an anti-Catholic book called Babylon, Mystery Religion. He pulled it from print after realizing two things can be similar, doesn't make them the same.


Here is part of Reverend Woodrow's words.


"My reason for pulling the original book out of print was quite basic: Citing similarities between Catholic practices and pagan practices proves nothing if there is no actual connection. One could take virtually anything—even McDonald’s golden arches—and do the same: The Encyclopedia Americana (article: "arch") says the use of arches was known in Babylon as early as 2020 B.C. As Babylon was called "the golden city" (Is. 14:4, KJV), can there be any doubt about the origin of the golden arches? As silly as this is, this is the type of proof that has been offered again and again about the supposed pagan origins of the Catholic Church."...

Read all he said at www.catholicthinker.net...

You'll see the title of the writing to the right of the page. Catholicism and Paganism.