Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

Ask yourself, how Mary can be the Mother of God?

Actually, to say that she is not the mother of God is to stray into Arianism. Jesus is the incarnation of the Word, fully man and fully God. So, unless you want to say that Mary didn't give birth to him, provide half of his DNA, didn't raise him as her child, and wasn't referred to as "Mom" by Jesus; or unless you reject Jesus as being God, then yes, Mary is the mother of God.

However, in no way does the Roman Catholic church teach that she is superior to God, that she pre-existed God, or that she is to be worshipped as God. It clearly rejects all of those things in the Catechism.

My position is, he always existed.

Well, that's the position of the Roman Catholic church, as well. But one can't separate "fully man" and "fully God" without straying into Arianism (TJ, for example, claims that sometimes Jesus was a man, sometimes he was a god -- obvious Arianism,) so Mary, in being the mother of Jesus, may be referred to as the mother of God. The only way that one can say that Mary wasn't the mother of God is to either say she wasn't the mother of Jesus (obvious folly) or there was a point where Jesus wasn't God (obvious Arianism.)

Once again, I recognize your issue with the term, Mariology is one of the aspects of Roman Catholicism that I really do not get, but one need not draw anything out from the term (like thinking that Mary pre-existed God,) it's just a description of her role in the plan of salvation.

adjenson,

I share again, you have a wonderful gift to explain, to write clearly the things you wish to say.

True, this is usually the last, understanding Mary. Folks do not be waylaid by any anti-Marian talk. God would give the dearest person in His earthly life, (most mothers have a special spot in their children's heart) to everyone, sharing her! It is so beautiful. Jesus and me is fine but Jesus and Mary and me, more help given to us.

Speak to Mary, anyone can speak to her in prayer.

A Pope is prophesied to proclaim the 5th Marian Dogma on May 31st of some year.

Mary is Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of all graces and our Advocate.

Watch and see. Some Christians are going to reject the 5th Dogma, even Catholics, not understanding the meaning of co-redemptrix. God, the Trinity wishes this, much grace will come down from Heaven once it is proclaimed. The term is easy to understand, Co- means "with."

For anyone who doubts about Mary and who she is in the plan of redemption. Start praying her prayer, the rosary, a meditation on mostly ~ her Son's life. The graces given and the promises given to those who pray the rosary. There are 15 promises. Beautiful. Anyone can pray the rosary, you do not have to be Roman Catholic. Search...how to pray the rosary. Do you have 17 minutes a day? It takes that bit of time. Start with 1 decade if 5 seems too much at first. Pray it every day. You can drive or walk and pray the rosary. You meditate on Our
Lord's life and Mary's with Him while you pray 3 main prayers. There are beginning prayers and ending prayers. Very easy to learn and remember.

Pope Pius called Mary Co-Redemptrix back in 1935. Dogmas make clear God's teachings already believed.

1935: Pope Pius XI gave the title co-redemptrix to Mary during a radio broadcast.

1964-NOV-21: The Chapter 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, passed by the Vatican Council II, and "Solemnly promulgated by Holiness Pope Paul VI" states, in part:
"Rightly, therefore, the Fathers see Mary not merely as passively engaged by God, but as freely cooperating in the work of man’s salvation through faith and obedience. For as St. Irenaeus says, she being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert with him in their preaching ...'death through Eve, life through Mary.' This union of the mother with the son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death"

Search - religious tolerance - Mary Co-Redemptrix - for the link. My Internet Explorer cut and paste isn't working.....


May the Two Hearts J+M keep you safe adjensen,


colbe

reply to post by colbe

Speak to Mary, anyone can speak to her in prayer.

I don't speak to my dead relatives or friends in prayer so why would I do that to Mary?

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

 

TJ, for example, claims that sometimes Jesus was a man, sometimes he was a god -- obvious Arianism

I do not. I believe that Jesus was at all times fully God and fully man. God humbled in the role of a man without giving up His divinity.

A number of times you have said that when Jesus spoke on certain occasions, he was "speaking as a man" -- indicating that he was not God at that point. Are you now retracting that statement?

Originally posted by truejew
In Latin the letter "I" had a "J" sound when followed by a vowel. The same as Greek.

I don't see a source for that page, and as the site is a "hey, send us some text and we'll publish it" place, it may well have come from you or Reckart, for all I know.

Every other source that I can find, such as this guy says that a "consonantal i" is the equivalent of our "Y", so "Jesu" (or "Iesu") is pronounced "yay-soo", not "jay-soo", exactly as I've said all along. There is no "J sound" in the Greek, Latin of Hebrew forms of Jesus' name.

Give it up. Like I said, you and Reckart are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Originally posted by adjensen

 

A number of times you have said that when Jesus spoke on certain occasions, he was "speaking as a man" -- indicating that he was not God at that point. Are you now retracting that statement?

Jesus speaking as a man does not mean that He was not God. He was both. Since my teaching has not changed, I have nothing to retract

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

Speak to Mary, anyone can speak to her in prayer.

I don't speak to my dead relatives or friends in prayer so why would I do that to Mary?

Because Mary was never human in the first place.
Have you never heard of the Shekinah? The Queen of Heaven?

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

 

A number of times you have said that when Jesus spoke on certain occasions, he was "speaking as a man" -- indicating that he was not God at that point. Are you now retracting that statement?

Jesus speaking as a man does not mean that He was not God. He was both. Since my teaching has not changed, I have nothing to retract

How does that make any sense? If he was both, then he was speaking as both.

Originally posted by Solmani

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

Speak to Mary, anyone can speak to her in prayer.

I don't speak to my dead relatives or friends in prayer so why would I do that to Mary?

Because Mary was never human in the first place.
Have you never heard of the Shekinah? The Queen of Heaven?

Although it is true that Mary and Shekinah worship are the same, the Shekinah comes from Jewish witchcraft. It is not Christian.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

 

A number of times you have said that when Jesus spoke on certain occasions, he was "speaking as a man" -- indicating that he was not God at that point. Are you now retracting that statement?

Jesus speaking as a man does not mean that He was not God. He was both. Since my teaching has not changed, I have nothing to retract

How does that make any sense? If he was both, then he was speaking as both.

God humbled Himself as a man.


Philippians 2:5-8 KJV
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: [8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

reply to post by truejew


TrueJew wrote: "Although it is true that Mary and Shekinah worship are the same, the Shekinah comes from Jewish witchcraft. It is not Christian."


You are correct.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

 

A number of times you have said that when Jesus spoke on certain occasions, he was "speaking as a man" -- indicating that he was not God at that point. Are you now retracting that statement?

Jesus speaking as a man does not mean that He was not God. He was both. Since my teaching has not changed, I have nothing to retract

How does that make any sense? If he was both, then he was speaking as both.

God humbled Himself as a man.

But he was still God.

That's one of the fundamental problems with your Modalism -- when it's convenient for you, God takes off his Jesus mask and becomes the Father or Holy Spirit, but then you have Jesus sitting over there, non-divine.

Either Jesus was fully man and fully God, and thus, when speaking, he spoke as both, or there were times when he was not divine, and thus able to speak as "just a man". You can't have both instances -- either choose the Doctrine of the Incarnation or choose Arianism (and, yes, we all know that you will choose Arianism, while claiming it isn't Arianism, but just as you can't redefine the Greek or Latin language as it pleases you, you can't redefine Arianism as it pleases you.)

And meanwhile, as we quibble over points of minor doctrine, America continues to spiral out of control into, not merely a secular cesspool, but an anti-religious one.

New Mexico Supreme Court effectively ends religious liberty for individuals

Sometimes I'm glad that I'm old enough that I won't see the worst of what's to come, other times I wonder how far off it really is.

reply to post by adjensen

Either Jesus was fully man and fully God, and thus, when speaking, he spoke as both, or there were times when he was not divine, and thus able to speak as "just a man". You can't have both instances

What of his times of weakness?

Can he be "fully God" when asking for mercy?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Either Jesus was fully man and fully God, and thus, when speaking, he spoke as both, or there were times when he was not divine, and thus able to speak as "just a man". You can't have both instances

What of his times of weakness?

Can he be "fully God" when asking for mercy?

Of course, why not?

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Either Jesus was fully man and fully God, and thus, when speaking, he spoke as both, or there were times when he was not divine, and thus able to speak as "just a man". You can't have both instances

What of his times of weakness?

Can he be "fully God" when asking for mercy?

Of course, why not?

Who would he be asking if not himself?

Originally posted by adjensen

But he was still God.

Yes, He was God in flesh in the role of a man.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Either Jesus was fully man and fully God, and thus, when speaking, he spoke as both, or there were times when he was not divine, and thus able to speak as "just a man". You can't have both instances

What of his times of weakness?

Can he be "fully God" when asking for mercy?

Of course, why not?

Who would he be asking if not himself?

The answer to that would surprise you, not to mention a whole lot of Christians.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Either Jesus was fully man and fully God, and thus, when speaking, he spoke as both, or there were times when he was not divine, and thus able to speak as "just a man". You can't have both instances

What of his times of weakness?

Can he be "fully God" when asking for mercy?

Of course, why not?

Yes, but He was speaking as a man.

Originally posted by Solmani

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen

 

Either Jesus was fully man and fully God, and thus, when speaking, he spoke as both, or there were times when he was not divine, and thus able to speak as "just a man". You can't have both instances

What of his times of weakness?

Can he be "fully God" when asking for mercy?

Of course, why not?

Who would he be asking if not himself?

The answer to that would surprise you, not to mention a whole lot of Christians.

I highly doubt it...

but feel free to elaborate..

reply to post by Akragon


Promise to get back to you later today.