People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil...

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by robhines

Originally posted by beezzer
Fascism is the forced application of socialistic policy.

(Did I get that right?)

Fascism is forcing things on the population without their consent, so it's not any type of anything really, apart from fascism and totalinarianism.

Would it still be fascism then if they forced freedom, liberty, values, individualism, on a populace?

Yes, if they didn't want it. Forcing something on a population is fascism. You just have to hope that people in their hearts, want freedom, if not we're basically screwed.

reply to post by Cabin


I would have to agree with you; socialism is not communism, look at Australia and New Zealand these are the perfect example!

It's sad that a decent amount of americans can't seem to find much difference between socialism and communism...

I've been in France for some years now and boy does the government really take care of me- as if the US gov't didn't! haha... Of course there are some draw-backs, and yes the taxes are higher, but job security, healthcare, and social security/retirement are incredibly better!

The United States is at its best when it institutes socialist programs like social security. The current problem in the United States is that there is too much capitalism; capitalism is destroying democracy. Corporations spend money through lobbyists to hijack democracy. All three branches, the Supreme Court, the Congress, and the Presidency are bought and paid for. There is nothing unconstitutional about socialism. I do not believe the Constitution outlines an economic system. The greatness of America is its democracy. The people are supposed to have the power. They choose their leaders directly or indirectly through voting. The Constitution has the ability to be changed through amendments. However, capitalism has made it such that any change in the Constitution is for the benefit of the powers with money, the corporations. Could we have a constitutional amendment that brings back slavery? I think a lot of CEOs would like to see that. The only way I see that the people could get the power back is if they were liberated by an outside power. An internal revolution would be very difficult because the corporations have so much power. They control all the intelligence agencies, CIA, NSA, FBI, etc. And now they make their own departments; the Department of Homeland Security. What's next? The Department of Indentured Servants?

Don't think we are asking for a full on socialist country here. What most people want is for the " very wealthy" the 1-10 percenter's to help out the rest of the country a little bit. This means paying a little higher wages to those average people working average jobs so that they can make enough money to live a half way decent life. The system fails many who try to get better jobs and higher wages. If it was easy we would all have them. Having or having not is not always based on an individual's intelligence or education. The monetary system is flawed.

The wealthy have worked hard. But we have worked hard too. I don't think the super wealthy have worked 20 billion times HARDER than your average Joe does to make his way -- just barely making his way since he/she is not getting paid enough for their work.

Do not believe the super wealthy need several billion dollars alone just for 1 or 2 people to live on. Nobody works THAT hard to earn THAT much, so there is something else going on that is destroying the hard working people of this country and those are the people who are paying for it, with their families, their lack of food on the table, and at the end of the week struggling to pay their rent.


Just pay average workers a little more (fair amount for work done) so we can get by and live our lives. I think that is all we are really asking for here.

We don't need 100% socialism for this to happen.

We need to be moral and civil. We all play a role in this country. Without your average workers the wealthy would not have a leg to stand on, they would be on their faces. If the average worker stopped working their jobs the wealthy will collapse. The curtain would be pulled and everyone would see behind the curtain.

Are we so not willing to negotiate a little better life for everyone? Are we so not willing to help each other?Are we so not willing to find a way without becoming defensive or offensive;black and white about our views?

83

I am always fascinated when I see how people are easily conditioned to "think" what those who pick all the cherries for themselves want them to "think". I can understand interest of those who benefit the most from current system of distribution of wealth to fight to protect it, but I will never understand those who are suffering immensely under the weight chains but are still fighting to protect old system, which is btw crumbling on itself, just because of fear change. People are so reflexive in their reactions that it's sickening.

Since many here are just parroting good old "no work - no pay! no work - no pay!", I just want to ask them if they are willing to die for their beliefs? Are they so "strong"? For example if they are left without work and cannot find another, are they willing to starve to death along with their children? Since that would be right thing to do. They should start preparing because there will be less and less jobs in the future:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nothing better than a 16 page thread in which 99% of the people arguing back and forth do not have a clue of what they're talking about.

Socialism is characterized by the number of people killed and sent to gulags? WRONG! What a ridiculous comment.

Socialism is characterized by people who don't want to work and steal from hard working people? LOL

Socialism leads to shortages of goods? A real knee-slapper there, whoever penned that gem.

If you don't know the meaning of socialism just look it up. That is all that it takes to not look like a fool but so many would rather look like a fool. Go back to school and read a book. Oh, that's right. School is just a socialist plot to steal from the people. LOL LOL

The worst part is these clowns are most likely allowed to vote and therefore the perpetual brainwashing will continue.

Originally posted by LightOrange

Originally posted by primus2012
People have been brainwashed to believe that hard work and maximum effort are evil.... And that there is no God.

Who is the mastermind behind it all? Uhm I don't know, mabye.....

People have not been brainwashed to believe that there is no God. They have been educated to realize that it is incredibly more likely that he doesn't exist.

Attributing socialism to Satan is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

Stay on your meds, please.

This was sarcasm, ergo the SNL bit...

Originally posted by TheComte
Nothing better than a 16 page thread in which 99% of the people arguing back and forth do not have a clue of what they're talking about.

Socialism is characterized by the number of people killed and sent to gulags? WRONG! What a ridiculous comment.

Socialism is characterized by people who don't want to work and steal from hard working people? LOL

Socialism leads to shortages of goods? A real knee-slapper there, whoever penned that gem.

If you don't know the meaning of socialism just look it up. That is all that it takes to not look like a fool but so many would rather look like a fool. Go back to school and read a book. Oh, that's right. School is just a socialist plot to steal from the people. LOL LOL

The worst part is these clowns are most likely allowed to vote and therefore the perpetual brainwashing will continue.

No it's a thread where 99% are calling everyone who doesn't think like they do, ignorant. "Most people are so dumb. Not me, I'm smart, I want to be a Socialist!"

i think the main problems are greed and people drunk on power in both ends of the spectrum. its human nature.

in a communist country like cuba the smart, wealthy, educated people also happen to be greedy, they do not want to share their wealth, they do not want to make less even if it benefits the country as a whole, so they move to a country where greed is acceptable and encouraged like the u.s. then you have the dictator and the ruling elite who are also greedy and live high on the hog while the people live in poverty. countries like the u.s impose harsh trade embargos and sanctions on these communist countries making life even more miserable for the people. now what would life be in cuba if the smart, wealthy people stayed and the ruling elite didn't take advantage but everyone worked together to make life better across the board? a utopia, but its a pipe dream because of the greed in human nature.

human nature calls for incentive. if there is no incentive people will not be willing to work hard so they will move to somewhere there is incentive and they can see more of their money. in america the poor see little incentive nowadays because of the increasing wage disparity. in this consumer materialistic society it is increasingly harder to make it "from nothing." we are too blinded by greed and materialism to actually save money. the only reason i see capitalism as the lesser of two evils is that it is still possible to save money and get ahead if you are willing to live within your means or in this economy one step below your means.

i would see a combination of the two sides working well if trickle down economics actually worked, if the corporations werent so intent on hoarding the wealth and shipping off the jobs in the name of extreme profits, and the ruling class didn't take advantage and were more fiscally responsible. i just feel that although this sounds good on paper, human nature would never allow for such a system to actually work.

i think capitalism would work just fine if people were willing to work hard, not be blinded by materialism and actually save money. in my opinion irresponsible spending on the part of the %98 and the government, and extreme greed on the part of the corporations is whats killing capitalism.

This site is so Anti-West its ridiculous. All those stars for a system YOU moved from? Why'd you move from this paradise. I try to stay away from post like this because its disturbing you have to use a site like this to get friends because anywhere in real life people would laugh in your face.

Why did you move? Why hasn't it worked before? It wasn't left enough you say. That's biased I say. As someone stated earlier your more then welcome to move back.

Does Obama pay you to try and convince people this is the right way of life?

No matter what government you have. People never matter. You to lazy to work for anything your worth? Or is that just it, your not worth anything?

I'm so tired of everyone looking for a handout or a government that provides said handout. Tax season. My tax money will be in your mailbox soon.

reply to post by Cabin


Liberty and a society taking care of everyone in it are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, people are brainwashed regarding most everything. New modes of perceiving our reality are needed desperately.

Giving everyone a base for a comfortable existence they can work up from seems to be a sane goal to me.

We could certainly do it, if enough people wanted to.

If we're going to survive as a species, something along these lines needs to happen. I can't see why this threatens people when this ideas' spirit is to help everyone.

reply to post by primus2012


So, let me get this straight. You think people should agree with you even though you do not know the correct definition of socialism? I haven't heard one argument against socialism yet that can't be easily refuted because none of them are based on actual socialism.

reply to post by TheComte


And they never will be. Every always says to explain/define it. Everyone has a different answer. Yours is no more special then someone elses. As much proof as you have to back up your version it is like wise for someone with a different version. Tell me then why has it been implemented the right way? Personal gain. It'll never happen. OP topic is now void.

Many societies have mixed elements of a social-welfare system alongside a free-market system based on capitalism. Most European countries, for instance, have some socialist or socialistic policies (in particular, with regards to healthcare), but all also retain private property rights and all also have free-trade and business.

Germany and the UK are good examples (of mixes - the Scandinavian countries have free enterprise but also come down more heavily on the gov't side); the UK has one of the largest disparities of wealth in the EU, has the largest financial center in Europe, and - despite all the parliamentary rabble-rousing - maintains a fairly laissez-faire system for the regulation of business associations (insofar as they are told what to do and so on). Cf. The City Code on Takeovers and Mergers; Companies Act 2006. Germany is curiously even more free-marketeer with respect to their healthcare system, but at the same time is undoubtedly committed to providing a welfare state for those who need the help.

The two elements of political ideology and political economy can be mixed.

I have studied different economies extensively.

Socialism does not work in long term in the current paper money economy, it has too many flaws like ALL systems we use today. Nothing really works to suit everyone needs to get to the point.

Except one different system never used before: Called The Venus Project. Give it a search on youtube. It beat every other system, however it will never exist as long as the rich want to stay rich and powerful.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by beezzer

 

I want above average....

Is it because of that our whole system is unbalanced and messed up? people WANTING more than they need?

Normal sedan is not enough for me, i want a luxury car! while laughing at the handicap person. Im a hypocrite for stating this, but hey if system says its okay to abuse the less fortunate and take advantage f the lower working class, then i will.

I think you're missing the point - or maybe it just needs some clarification. There's nothing wrong with wanting more than you need - this encourages creativity and expansion. However, there IS some wrong with wanting more than you're willing to give. THAT is greed. Using this definition, I know quite a few poor people who (although are well intentioned and nice people) are greedy because they feel entitled to receiving more value than they are willing to contribute.

reply to post by Intrigue89


If I'm following you, I think you just admitted that everyone has a different definition of socialism and they are all correct, and that socialism is the enemy of your way of life. This is not the case.

That is the result of the brainwashing of American media over the past 70 years, equating Eastern Bloc countries with socialism, and Western Alliance countries as capitalist. Private media, I might add. Even you yourself wonders why this thread is so anti-West. But many Western countries have socialist aspects of their economies, including the USA.

Socialism is an economic system, not a political one. You all think that it is a political system adopted by enemies of the USA like Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba. This is wrong. Separate the economic from the political and you can have a democratic society that creates wealth for all.

For a simple example, say you live in a town of 1000 people and on public land you find oil. Now it will take $100,000 to develop a well. A stranger comes to town and offers to put up the $100k but he keeps all the profits and pays the town a royalty. This is capitalism, private ownership of capital.

Another option is for 1000 people to put up $100 each to develop the well. Each would then share in the profits, or the money can be used to improve the town. This is socialism. Public ownership of capital.

In both cases jobs are created to build and run the well, and taxes are paid. And no, all of a sudden the town does not become a dictatorship with gulags. All of a sudden there are not shortages of bread and cheese. And I hope I don't have to convince anyone that the profits from an oil well dwarf the tiny royalties the oil companies pays to governments.

Who in their right mind would argue that it is better for the private individual to keep the vast majority of the profits rather than benefit the entire community?

Originally posted by Adaluncatif
The United States is at its best when it institutes socialist programs like social security.

Because Social Security is doing so well?????
SS is the biggest ponzi scheme in history and its collapse will devastate those who must now depend on it.