People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil...

Firstly, I would like to ask all posters to be respectful. I would like this thread to be a bit more intellectual than garbaging the OP.

Personally I am from a former Soviet country, so I know quite a bit about the political system of that era. Politically I would not consider myself left-extremist, although I am more inclined to the left-sided worldview.

Historically socialism has not proved itself. All the countries that have tried it, have failed. Whether it would be China, Soviets, Cuba. The political system has turned out to be even more depressing on people than the capitalism. Although the truth is, the world has not seen a true left-wing country yet. Any wing of socialism has had nothing to do with equality or people. The communistic system (which is considered to be socialistic worldview) was rough and people meant nothing. That is not a left-wing policy, which should be people-based.

The real reason behind this thread is the fact of the more capitalistic countries trying to brainwash their people in believing socialism is evil. As far as I know about the average American worldview or the average folks worldview around here, whenever something free or people-based is brought up, it is immediately labelled as communism. Round here news portals offer the chance to comment on the news. Whenever something even a bit socialistic comes up, most comments are bringing it down by saying: "Fuc*ing communists" (not exactly like that, but that is the point behind most comments).

Actually that makes me sad and angry at the same time. Overally I believe there are ways to implement some socialistic worldviews also in the capitalist world, making a mix around these. I am not saying everybody have to be equal, but I believe the basic needs of everybody should be covered by the country. Things do not have to be "free", but the companies who produce electricity, water, basic foods, ingredients (vegetables, fruits etc) , healthcare and education should be non-profit organisations run by the country.

I believe it would even be possible to make at least foods, electricity and water free for everybody . There are so many homeless people, people who live on minimum salaries and do not get by. I am sure, most of them would be happy to do "voluntary work" if they got their basic needs covered. Considering that overally the prices would go down a lot thanks to them, they would pay themselves off by it and everybody would win.

These were just a random ideas I got on the spot, so these may not be the best ideas, although the thing is there are lots of ideas like that, some of them may be utopic, some would be extremely helpful to humankind, although 99% of them are not even considered, but trashed immediately as being communism...

The reason behind it is the brainwashing done by the system. People are made to believe that the true capitalism is the best for everybody, although reality shows otherwise. The overall dumbing down of the people is also making their thinking more limited. Most people can not even think outside the box. Let us say, if I try to talk to anybody about a world without money, it would be too much outside their limited thinking, beyond their imagination. Even when a much less controversial idea is offered, it is also immediately brought down without even thinking about it first and that is sad.

I hope you got the overall message behind this thread. I know I did not write it well enough. Nearly 39 degree fever is not the best condition to write at, but I hope I see at least some good posts here later

reply to post by Cabin


I remember the good old days of British Rail, East Midlands Electricity and British Gas. All nationalised. I feel our country has gone downhill since privatisation. Now they are planning to privatise Royal Mail. I shake my head at the stupidity... :shk:

reply to post by Cabin


To the title: yup, go figure.

You can thank USA's war on Communism for that.
There's also the taint left over from another other Socialist regime that was in power in Germany during WWII.

Socialism, however, aint bad.
Anyone wants to yell about it can pull their children out of PUBLIC School, which is a very very very Socialist program.
They can also sign off to never ever ever dip into SOCIAL Security once they get old.

There's lots of socialist programs alive and well in the USA as well as other first world countries all over that make for excellent systems.

Typically, however, it's under-educated ignorance that brings about blind hatred toward such systems.

I agree, look at the happiest people in the world and they live very well under some sort of socialism.
I find it odd that in a God fearing country like the USA they go against what Jesus says...the "screw you Jack Iam doing fine" attitude disgusts me.
In the UK we have social medicine and I would fight for that tooth and nail.

reply to post by Cabin


Its just the opposite - people have been mind controlled into thinking and believing that Marxist communism and other forms of socialism are not evil - when everyone in their right mind knows that they are surely EVIL.

reply to post by boymonkey74


Agreed. I'm bad with money but I do pay my taxes and NI contributions. I can't imagine going to a hospital and them turning me away because I can't afford the treatment. Or, getting the treatment and then owing £10,000.

reply to post by POXUSA


Forget Marxism for a minute. What makes you think that subtle socialism is evil?

Sadly, socialism has been misrepresented so much that it receives an automatic negative response by the average person.

Socialism, just like capitalism, is not bad in and of itself. How some Men have used socialism for their own benefit is where it all went wrong.

Eventually our governments and societies will return to a socialist system in which the value of the individual trumps the value of the State and personal profit.

reply to post by Druscilla


I would like to say that the OP is well written.
Socialism is not a bad idea in itself, but it does not lend itself well to actual implementation. Neither does capitalism. Each have their ills, but at least with capitalism the people are rewarded for their contributions.

Anyone wants to yell about it can pull their children out of PUBLIC School, which is a very very very Socialist program.

I don't know if this is a great example, Druscilla. A lot of people, Obama included, opt out of the public school system when they can afford to, because the public school system mostly sucks in the US.

ETA:

They can also sign off to never ever ever dip into SOCIAL Security once they get old.

Any capitalist that is forced to 'donate' money into a socialist program would be a fool not to take it back.

personnally i think that the tea party and OWS here in the states have the same concerns, but they each come from different political angles. both sides want the independent freedom to run their own lives, but with some degree of confidence that the government won't shove them out into the cold when essential basic needs cannot be met. contrary to popular belief, the majority of left of center people in this country want to work for a living and be independant of government. as with any pigeon-holed group, you will have the few bad apples that reinforce the stereotype. those that have something to gain from conflict, pit us against one another so they do not have to confront an organized group. both the people in OWS and the tea party deep down know that their concerns are not that far apart, but have been manipulated into the classic "us vs. them"

The socialists say that the capitalists are evil.
The capitalists say that the socialists are evil.
Both are correct and incorrect at the same time.
Many times what is considered to be 'Good' or 'Evil' are subjective.
Nothing in politics is pure good or pure bad. They all have a mix of both in them.

Socialists say that taking money from those who earn it, and giving to those who don't, is a 'good' thing to do and it's helpful for those who don't have much. Capitalists say that taking money from those who earn it, and giving to those who don't, is an 'evil' thing to do, that it's theft from those who earn it and it just encourages those who don't earn it not to get a job.

Both are right. Both are wrong.

reply to post by Druscilla

There's also the taint left over from another other Socialist regime that was in power in Germany during WWII

What regime was that? It certainly wasn't the Nazis and don't try to make out that it was.


Anyway as I understand it communism is just a particular strand of socialism and of those communist states that have existed, many had their own interpretations of Marx and his theories and no one system was entirely the same.

Socialism, albeit altruistic in theory, progressively leads to communism where the state not the individual is paramount. State centrist systems are empowered by a monopoly of force and to "take" from those that have and give to others is a form of "theft" even if necessary for the protection of the state and the common good.

Originally posted by Kram09

What regime was that? It certainly wasn't the Nazis and don't try to make out that it was.

Anyway as I understand it communism is just a particular strand of socialism and of those communist states that have existed, many had their own interpretations of Marx and his theories and no one system was entirely the same.

Nazism or National Socialism
While the 'Socialism' aspect was an entirely different definition away from Marxist Socialism, it was still called 'Socialism.

This in turn contributed to confusion and hatred over what Socialism was/is.

See how that works?

No, it wasn't Socialism, but, it was called that under a different definition.
Those who don't know the difference thus then make a connection where there is none.

reply to post by Cabin


Op, your free to move to one of your socialist paradises any time, leave my country alone.

Nothing if free silly, nothing, everything comes with an associated cost, as it must be mined cultivated etc. People dont work for free.

How would giving people welfare for payless work ( known as slavery in most places) help anyone? What is the difference between joblow making barely enough to live on, and working for free for barely enougb to live on? At least he might be able to make somthing happen if he is very smart with his money, if ye has none, he has no hope of ever changing his life.

Communism will never work, or any idiotic lefty idea, as they all start from the most naive and ignorant world view possible, here watch I will show you what I mean.


If we gave every one a mansion and a ferrari, and as much food and drink as they needed, they woukdd all go to work for free everyday and do a great job.

Problem is, most wont, they will do just enough to keep their stuff and no more, it is simple logic, nobody is gonna break their back all day, when the guy next to themis slacking off. So one by one, even if they all started as perfect workers, they will get more and more kazy by the day, until the entire system collapses. Capitalism, though quite flawed, is the onky known system at present that rewards hard work, whike punishing lazy people, and thus leadingto hard workers making more, and worthless people making less.

In closing, communism reads like a mother goose story, where the good always get what they deserve, but this isnt the real world, and so, it is clever fiction and nothing more. Anyone who cant see that, ( this is you btw op) is either stupid, or mentally challenged, maybe even special olympics challenged, as it is quite obvious to 99 percent of people.

So either get educated, so your ignorance might be cured, or get insulted for being considered stupid by aa lot of folks, myself included.

No star and no flag, as I meantioned above, your quite ignorant about the real world, maybe even incurabky so.

"we won the war, we make what is good and what is evil.... we say socialism and communism is evil"

Then you have 2-3 generation of brainwashed people.

First of all, "Socialism" is a VERY big word. Are you referring to just an economic system? Which doesn't seem to work because socialism hides behind benevolent intentions and humanitarian quidelines while 'absorbing' billions from it's members. The elite still get filthy rich. Look at non-profit organizations like Acorn for instance. Also, the more diverse a culture the more difficult it is to have a true socialistic system.
And take a socialist style country:

The income tax in Denmark goes up to 63%, the highest rate in the world. (Source: Wikipedia) And don’t think that it’s only a few rich people who pay that tax rate. The highest tax bracket in Denmark starts at 347,200 DKK (2009), which is about $66,000 per year. (Source: TaxInDenmark.com)

Denmark has a value added tax (a.k.a VAT, which is similar to sales tax) of 25%, again the highest in the world. By comparison, the highest sales tax levied in the U.S. is about 10%. (Source: Wikipedia) But it doesn’t end there. In addition to the general VAT, citizens are required to part with more of their money for special things the government targets for extra taxation. Cars, for example, are taxed at around a 200% level, making 2/3 of the cost of a car in Denmark go to taxes. This is effectively like paying for a luxury car and getting a compact.

So first the major portion of your income is taken away, and then to add insult to injury, the government makes sure that whatever you can buy with the measly remnants of your money is much more expensive.

socialismdoesntwork.com...

I don't think people are brainwashed at all. I think they are tired of seeing their hard earned dollars given to wasted things they don't agree with. They are tired of supporting people who don't want to work....yes they ARE out there. And, they are tired of seeing others make wealthiy on their dime.

So which country would you like the US to be like? Of course I'm assuming the US, but the US is pretty much socialistic already. The one big area where the USA fails in 'assisting' it's citizens are with the people between the ages of 18 and 67 who don't have any dependants. Apparently these people never need assistance. Throw a kid in the mix and wellah, welfare, Sec 8/HRA, free medical. See how easy that is? Instant Socialism.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


Are you linking privatization with socialism? I wasn't sure what your message is. Privatization is everything to do with greedy corporations for huge profit, low wage employee's and no consideration to the well being of anyone outside that system.

Socialism is nationalizing multi-corporations and making the price of commodities cheaper for everyone, hire people at reasonable wages and giving consideration to everyone. At least in theory.

Oh, how quaint! Socialism is all warm and fuzzy now!

It has FAILED EVERYWHERE IT HAS BEEN TRIED! Want to take a stab at why? Because civilization is NOT uplifted when you need to seize the fruits of the labor from the successful. Because power is inevitably concentrated into the hands of the few that make irrational determination on the needs of the many. Because human nature will ensure that those who have achieved such power will abuse it. And finally, because it eliminates the drive for success.

Yes, we can explore all of those platitudes shared by Marxist/Communist/Socialist axioms. However, those are IDEALS, and NOT reality! The notion that all men are created equal is the first fallacy. The second fallacy is that government can create equality. Here's why... Some men are created as better athletes than others, some are created as better business men than others and others as better intellectuals as others. In order for Socialism to work, the system REQUIRES that those with better skills and abilities be HELD BACK in the name of equality! In time, all innovation stops, society no longer advances and it festers in a pit of morass!

This primer is a nice explanation!

And in fairness, what we have today is hardly "Capitalism" - so using today's system as a justification against "Capitalism" is intellectually disingenuous. This primer explains why today's system is NOT Capitalism, but something else entirely.

What MUST happen is that the system of corporatocracy/oligarchy/plutocracy/meritocracy MUST be destroyed. Monopolistic businesses MUST be subject to TRUE anti-trust regulation and divestiture. Banks MUST be regionalized and returned to true monetary policy, not fractional reserve banking driven by debt and fiat currency. And finally, and most importantly, private property principles MUST be restored, respected and protected as was originally intended. Anything short of that will result in continued failure for mankind to reach their true potential.

Not unless stupid ineffective and evil are synonyms. Socialism is counter to human nature. I don't want to type out the "scorpion and the frog" parable it's applicable in this case.