People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil...

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
I want to apologize for my last two posts. When last I visited this thread, I was finding thoughtful intercourse and what I thought to be meaningful discussion. Then I came to these two posts, and I guess I just got a bit miffed. Had I the chance, I would just go back and erase them and continue to ignore posts that raise my hackles so, like I normally do.
So OP, my apologies for degrading your intelligent thread.I acted like an idiotic moron.

Now there's a REAL man (or WOman).

Something you don't see often is someone admitting their faults.

Perhaps my post was part of the problem (hate).

Apologies from me as well to all.

HATE is all a part of the agenda and it seems to be working.

reply to post by beezzer


Socialism in its true state does not dictate that if you have a higher skill you do not get paid more for it. It just means that we have a basic right to what we have always had. Food and shelter at the bare minimum.

Also people that make so much money the excess goes to paying off the system so they can be Gods. Limit that so they can still be extremely rich if they earned it honestly. No one should have so much power, that is very evil.

There is much more but I don't have time to explain what should be obvious to any thinking feeling human. Loo in the mirror and be a better human, try and minimize the dog eat dog animal in you.

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
The problem with socialism is that it assumes that greedy, psychopathic personalities won't ever be in charge.

That needed to be said.

I thought about it, you wrote it.

THANKS...

reply to post by beezzer


No one deserves to spend most of the precious short time we have working just so we can work. WTF is THAT mentality all about?

Try working for what most will be working for if YOUR reality becomes the all. Work for a place to sleep in between shifts....what a nightmare.

Socialism is horrible and it should remain in the realm of ideas.

It's a decent idea in theory but an evil idea in practice. This is because politicians and Governments are inherently corrupt. The Founders of America realized this and this is why they put more power in the hands of the individual. This is because the power that things like socialism, marxism and communism give the State should be frightening to anyone who loves freedom.

Again, men and women are corrupt. It's just there nature. Look at the poorest countries and then look at the Governments. The people in power are rich while the people starve.

So for me, Governments reach should always be reduced. Why do you need Government to provide all of these things?

You're doing 2 basic things.

1. You're growing Government to crazy levels with all this "free" stuff.

2. You're enriching crooked and corrupt Politicians.

I trust the individual over the state especially with the corrupt nature of man.

reply to post by bronto


Its so sad to hear this brainwashed mockery seeming to have no end. WOW.

The USA is so full of people that will never understand how life should wok. Corporate/Government brainwashing is amazingly effective.

I am not saying everybody have to be equal, but I believe the basic needs of everybody should be covered by the country. Things do not have to be "free", but the companies who produce electricity, water, basic foods, ingredients (vegetables, fruits etc) , healthcare and education should be non-profit organisations run by the country.

reply to post by Cabin

The reason that humanity has progressed, is not due to some who work for "free" while others toil, but rather a degree of survival of the fittest that is woven throughout history. Your suggestion that " basic needs be covered" immediately creates problems. Who decides what is covered, who pays for it, and who benefits from it? You say that the "country" provides the basics. "Country" is a rather abstract concept, that doesn't exist as a natural law of nature. It is an artificial collection of people who have decided to live a certain way, and have either chosen leaders, or had such leaders thrust upon them by force. Consider the US today, a collection of almost 310,000,000 people bound together by geography, history and a degree of force, called by some laws. .When some people work, for the benefit of those who refuse to work, the entire process eventually falls apart. Those that work tire of working, while others sit on their duffs and reap the bounty of the workers efforts. In today's US, this situation has reached a boiling point. The reason that that USSR fell apart is due in no small part to this situation, namely that the proletariat "pretend to work", and the government "pretends to pay them". This is essentially a closed system, which eventually runs out of entropy, That will happen in the US, certainly within the next 10 years, perhaps sooner. The fate of any society that follows such a system has always eventually collapsed, and the US will be no exception.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
. Corporate/Government brainwashing is amazingly effective.

Best quote in the thread sir.
Some very smart people on this Site ,think they are saying very smart things.
They dont Realize they are Oxen that have come to Love the Yoke.
It is sad to see them being Used by People who would Laugh in their Face, if they were Starving.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Anyone wants to yell about it can pull their children out of PUBLIC School, which is a very very very Socialist program.

I don't know if this is a great example, Druscilla. A lot of people, Obama included, opt out of the public school system when they can afford to, because the public school system mostly sucks in the US.

I beg to differ. It's not a terrible example. You may be right that many public schools are not able to rival the quality and standards of a lot of private schools, and as such, many "opt out" of the public school system when they can afford to, as you point out.... however, the key phrase in that sentence is "when they can afford to."

The fact is that quite a lot of people... a majority, even, can not afford private schooling for their children. And if privatized schools were the only thing available in this country, that would lead to an even more massive chunk of people who are under or un-educated, which would likely make things even worse for the poorer classes than they already are.

For another example-- look at the difference between shipping prices of the United States Postal Service and its main competitors, UPS and FedEx. With the USPS I can ship something from one end of the country to the other... often even to rural addresses, in about 2 days (3 max) for a rate of about $5. Compare that to the best deal you could get from UPS. For $20 it will arrive overnight. Again, compare this price to the private competition.

Furthermore, USPS first class mail is considered private, and protected. They would need a warrant to look inside. On the other hand, UPS and FedEx examine and open packages all the time-- no warrant required, no protections offered. Some might argue that such a thing is unnecessary unless one is "up to something," but I know folks who would disagree with that view. We've needlessly given up enough freedoms and measures of privacy....

You have a typo in your thread title. Should be "People have been educated to believe that socialism is evil..."

How was your last trip to the DMV, or the Unemployment Office? How lomg were the lines? How friendly and cooperative were the people? When is the last time you were on the phone trying to get a government bureaucrat to correct a mistake? How much time was wasted on hold while being transferred from one mindless bureaucrat to another?

And you want food distribution run like that? You want to deal with the government when buying everything? You want no competition to drive innovation and lower prices?

I'd say you're the brainwashed ones.

reply to post by Cabin


If you love socialism, move somewhere where there is that style of government.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by theMediator

Originally posted by beezzer
I get so angry when others try to dictate what I should have, what I "need" and what I deserve.

Socialism doesn't have to go beyond basic needs.

Socialism isn't tyrannical communism, everyone can still get what they deserve and work for.

Who gets to decide what "they deserve"?

Common consensus of what is humane.
Rational thought.
Good debate based on statistical data.

And "they" is called society as a whole..not some strange mutated apes we are tending to. Today I am a rich man, tomorrow I may fall, the question comes then from day 3...will I fall so far that getting back up is next to impossible? that depends on the net that is spread.

Originally posted by carl6405
reply to post by Cabin

 

If you love socialism, move somewhere where there is that style of government.

So, California then?
Or New York?
Maybe Massachusetts?

ok, I will just look on a map of the US for the most socialist programs.
You know whats funny though...you can overlay that with also the most GDP and least amount of federal cost to tax used and they are the same...funny that, isn't it. Those socialist states are keeping the deadbeat parasite states fed and watered...wonder why that is...
think about it.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
The reason that humanity has progressed, is not due to some who work for "free" while others toil, but rather a degree of survival of the fittest that is woven throughout history.

You're 100% correct my friend. That is the way of Natural Law. Most of the species here on Planet Earth live by this Law. We humans will destroy ourselves just as we will destroy this planet.

Unfortunately, We have allowed the weak, lazy Human beings who are drunk on gluttony to multiply and outnumber the strong, intelligent and productive members of The human gene pool.

Just as we have sacrificed innocence, in the name of evil. Only, that is just a human condition that is connected to our advancement and progress. For instance, anyone who harms a child should be eradicated. That as well, is natural law, because it protects the weak in order to preserve the seed of the strong. What is important is to not misunderstand or confuse those two different types of weakness.

There are the weak that contribute absolutely nothing, they just suck off the productive. Then there is the weak who can't defend themselves even against evil or the unproductive, and those would be the young and elderly.

I think that we should help our fellow Man though, but not if it threatens our survival in the long run. It's a very interesting subject that has so many counter arguements on both sides. I have stood on both of them at different times throughout my own existence up until now.

We should help eachother if we can, but it should never be forced upon us by any Government or Law. ~$heopleNation

marxism in all its variants are evil. just evil. diluting it with sensible measures doesn't change its foundations. legalized slavery and theft. thats all there is to it. justifying the taking from one to give to another, almost always under the threat of a violence to those who do not comply. don't believe it? try not paying your taxes. you are forced to surrender the procedes of your labor, so that they may be distributed to those who had nothing to do with its production, with little or no say in its distribution.

Typical political slogan: We as a civilized society have a duty to help group X. In order to do that, we must take from groups Y and Z. Those who make such suggestions are rarely ever part of group Y or Z. And even when they are, they usually carve out loopholes to minimize its impact to them personally. And if group Y protests, they are demonized by the state compliant media, and if compliance can't be guilted out of the victims, then its head knocking time to make a nice example for group Z to think about.

Wake up call to all those idealists. The same crooks and elites who run capitalist systems, are the same ones who run socialist ones as well. Only they are afforded the fig leaf of legitimacy by hiding behind government diktat and can openly use the power of government to force acquiescence. In capitalism, no company can force you to buy their product. In a socialist one, the government can jail or kill you for not using your money as they order.

marxism: legalized theft and slavery

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
reply to post by beezzer

 

No one deserves to spend most of the precious short time we have working just so we can work. WTF is THAT mentality all about?

Try working for what most will be working for if YOUR reality becomes the all. Work for a place to sleep in between shifts....what a nightmare.

Well that's just how life works.

Look, rarely does a person need to work more than 20 hours a week to support their life..food, water, and some really ghetto form of shelter is fairly cheap.
The working full time, working double time, etc..this is persuits of better stuff.
I am not hammering this mind you...better stuff is..better.
But that then means we will have to work a bit harder in life to keep that lifestyle up.

you don't need internet access to survive..but if you get it, you open a door of endless information and entertainment, so ya...work a few hours a month for that...and shoes that don't have holes in them are a nice luxury, clothes that were made within the last 20 years, etc etc etc...

Honestly, a survivalist could make 100$ last a month or more (buying bulk rice, living in a tent, etc).

So, what our question then for socialist tendencies in society is, what is the level where life is "not bad", but you do want to get off your butt to make it better for yourself...have ham instead of spam for example.

But that argument you presented isn't about survivalism..your angry at being programmed to be a consumer...but you can't decide to break out of the side effect of consumerism (working) while not also abandoning the consumer part...no...the government shouldn't be providing you with Xboxes and beer...but health care and education..its in everyones interest for the gov to provide that...arguably even low tier housing (keep the streets clean)

The people who think socialism is "evil" do not know the meaning of the term. The problem is that they confuse socialism with authoritarianism. Socialism is a purely economic system. It means that the state controls the means of production, that is all. You cannot begin a meaningful discussion without first knowing the meaning of socialism.

Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.[1] "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, state ownership, or citizen ownership of equity.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now that we have that established we can ignore all the posts that deal with authoritarian issues like lack of freedom and the like, or that socialism is theft, or any of those kinds of inane comments. They have nothing to do with socialism.

The countries you name where socialism has failed have all been combined with an authoritarian government where individual rights and freedoms have been suppressed.

You can, however, have democracy in a socialist state and these countries have not failed. Norway is a hugely successful socialist state.

Norwegians enjoy the second highest GDP per-capita (after Luxembourg) and fourth highest GDP (PPP) per-capita in the world. Today, Norway ranks as the second wealthiest country in the world in monetary value, with the largest capital reserve per capita of any nation.

The Norwegian economy is an example of a mixed economy, a prosperous capitalist welfare state featuring a combination of free market activity and large state ownership in certain key sectors.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Cabin

people have been brainwashed into thinking communism and socialism are different from what they actually are.

if we're being honest, a purely socialist or purely capitalist society will last for a shorter time than a mix of the two principles, but the trouble is determining the right mix.

the social security fund is something i consider a mix of capitalist and socialist ideas, and it's brilliant (until the fund was robbed by congress because it was working really well). the reason it can work so well is because it combines conservative monetary policy (saving) with socialist ideas of spreading the wealth. the saved money increases over time, so it becomes greater than the initial input of capital, which allows it to support those who paid in after they retire.

more people hate communism without knowing what it is. ask them if they're against it, and they'll say yes, then ask them to tell you what it is, or if they've read the communist manifesto, and they have no idea.

private groups that have to make a profit (at least break even) are far more effective at managing resources, but without unbiased laws to contain corporations, they end up trying to increase profits in ways that are dangerous to consumers. injecting cows with steroids so that they have more meat on them, using inferior construction materials because they're cheaper, and generally trying to make extra money through unethical means.

reply to post by LoneGunMan

The USA is so full of people that will never understand how life should work.

The USA is so full of people that will never understand how life will never work the way they think it should because it's too corrupt and incompetent.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by carl6405
reply to post by Cabin

 

If you love socialism, move somewhere where there is that style of government.

So, California then?
Or New York?
Maybe Massachusetts?

ok, I will just look on a map of the US for the most socialist programs.
You know whats funny though...you can overlay that with also the most GDP and least amount of federal cost to tax used and they are the same...funny that, isn't it. Those socialist states are keeping the deadbeat parasite states fed and watered...wonder why that is...
think about it.

edit on 8-3-2013 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)

I'm speechless.

How old are you?