Feminism & The Downfall Of The Traditional Family

reply to post by orangetom1999


Orangetom...Orangetom...Orangetom... you can fill up an ATS posting page as much as you desire, but that doesn't change the facts. Show me statistics where most women want a man that is not unprogrammed to the 'macho'.

All I gleen from your posts is generalities and personal belief and bias, but within my posts, which you obviously missed, are facts based on studies - no surveys posted as I can see - mixed in with actual life experience and witness.

InTheLight
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

Orangetom...Orangetom...Orangetom... you can fill up an ATS posting page as much as you desire, but that doesn't change the facts. Show me statistics where most women want a man that is not unprogrammed to the 'macho'.

All I gleen from your posts is generalities and personal belief and bias, but within my posts, which you obviously missed, are facts based on studies - no surveys posted as I can see - mixed in with actual life experience and witness.

edit on 17-10-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

InTheLight,

Wow!! A double negative. Hmmmm..Interesting!!

I am not interested in what most women want. I am interested in the woman I am with or choose. Her values and her thinking. I have little use for the feminine position today. I have much use for a Woman...though they are become very difficult to find ..as is a Man today.

I am also not interested in Macho as this is to me more training for Male Expendability and Disposability. Which is why I have little to no interest in Sports conditioning or the ....errr....I think it is called..the ESPN Channel. I to not even know what those letters mean..as I dont watch this channel nor hardly any of the sports genre. No interest in it. I don't need or want conditioning to run more touchdowns.

What I am interested in from a woman is a help meet..not a help yourself meet. There is to me a huge difference.

As to studies..I read them on occasion with a huge salt shaker by my side. For it is obvious to me that most women I have met are interested in Options...not necessarily more RISKS..but more Options. I dont need a study or polls to know this. All I have to do is watch their behavior and on what they spend their monies...or in some cases on what they spend someone elses monies. For this is the prime indicator of their real thinking and values..not necessarily what they say..Men too.

And this is seldom shown in feminist polls or studies. However...Dr. Warren Farrell has looked on studies like this and mentions this in his videos and in his books. He will also show and demonstrate where these studies originate and the bias in them..how to spot it. There are way to few teachers and speakers out here who will teach this to people to get them out of the propaganda box of thinking which has overtaken many of us..male and female both.

What I have found with most studies is that they are politically derived..not necessarily unbiased..but biased politically. Most of us are not trained to spot this in a study, survey, or poll.

This has become obvious with many of the positions and studies of the enviornmentalists groups as they too play the blame game...seeking to get in everyones pocketbook. Sound familiar?? They too are seeking politically to squelch/censor any opposition or dissent. Are they ..feminine?? It looks and sounds like the same fingerprint...same modus operandi..!!??

You know InTheLight..I remember as a record of history ..back when Bill Clinton was in office..and this business of the Intern was happening in the news..daily.

Until it's conclusion ...every day we were bombarded by one poll after another poll after another ad nauseum. This seemed to go on forever.. forever...every day...constantly. Once this business was concluded with the Intern...the polls disappeared and rather quickly.

It was then I realized for what the polls are designed. They were for the purpose of molding public opinion...not for reporting. For getting people to think a certain way..by propaganda...by juggling numbers in the public unconsciousness. Herd mentality.
Once the goal was acheived ..you hardly heard anything more..and the polls died out. Just like the War on Women and Violence Against Women has now died out.

Hence you go ahead and quote studies after studies....Bon Appetit. For there are people out here who read these posts and know the difference.

Anyone who has ever taken a class on statistics knows statistics and numbers can be made to read anything one desires if they are presented correctly. And most people are not trained in this.

The great Economist Milton Freedman used to do talks before large audiences showing his charts..numbers et al..etc etc..and rant on and on and on..and then concluded with ..
"And therefore Peanuts are the best currency."

And the audiences would stand up and applaud. He just took their monies for Peanuts and they stood up to a rousing applause. Astonishing. A real operator.

But they still havent balanced the budget have they?? I don't think if they had all women up there it would be any different. For they already have feminine.

Well ..I think some of the readers get the point out here when they read this.

Keep quoting your studies..and I will give my thoughts and some real life examples. Not dry studies.

The readers will make up their own minds.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


Until you can walk a mile in a woman's shoes, you really don't have a clue. Then add to the mix the responsibility of rearing children alone, tending to pets, and holding down a full time job and think about if you could walk in those boots.

By the way, have you read where they prove women are smarter than men?

www.thestar.com...

InTheLight
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

Until you can walk a mile in a woman's shoes, you really don't have a clue. Then add to the mix the responsibility of rearing children alone, tending to pets, and holding down a full time job and think about if you could walk in those boots.

By the way, have you read where they prove women are smarter than men?

www.thestar.com...

edit on 20-10-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-10-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-10-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

InTheLight,

Stop!!! Stop!!! InTheLight. Once again you are attempting to use and misuse standard default stettings and thinking no one will see it for what it is. You are assuming none of us see it and will not say anything about it..hence you can default through on what you think it entitlement and the moral high ground.
It is not so.

It is cheap politics of the worst and deceitful type. It is propaganda.

As I stated in a previous post...most men get the message from their women that the men are supposed to be taking on more female tasks..in "Equality" but their women are not attempting to take on more traditional male tasks in "Equality.

Translation of that is that more is expected of the males including to be quiet and let things default through. Just like our two phony two party political system.

Those who can think for themselves realize that our phony two party system is no longer representing the people of this nation..but only the parties themselves...and the special interests which support them.

The same goes for the feminist political party...and their standard rhetoric. They, just like the political party system, have a willing and compliant phony media shilling for them...and will not tolerate dissent...ie...censorship.

These are the dots connecting this phony system. Dots which the media and also the body politic will not connect..neither will the public education system.

The women I know are not at all interested in Equality because they have no interest in walking a mile in a mans shoes..but by default and thinking no one sees what they are doing ..they come across with the standard lines you are attempting to use and misuse...that a man should walk a mile in a woman's shoes.

I'll tell you what InTheLight...tomorrow night...I will be going down into a Nuclear Reactor...and doing some work around the reactor coolant pump. This is a highly radioactive pump..with great internal contamination. When you read your EPD or Electronic Personal Dosimetry...it begins at 0.0 mr when you enter but within about a half an hour it rises rapidly meaning you have picked up that much radiation. I will be down there about two hours...then again on Tuesady and Wednesday.
Do you want to walk a mile in my shoes??
I dont need to take a survey or study to know this....for there are few women in this field who spend much time down there.

Dont BS me InTheLight..I can change diapers...wash clothes ..even sew and cook. Iron too. This all in addition to doing my work. I don't come to a woman for these skills..but I like a woman who can do them for herself...and is not high maintenance. I enjoy a woman who can prepare a meal for me with care and love ...and enjoys what she is doing in that arena. But I am not dependent on a woman for this.

I do know men...scratch that...know males... who are dependent on women for this and dont think much of them.


I am not responsible for these women's predicaments. Do not attempt to conduct yourself on me as if I am. They have made a life choice..I am not responsible for their predicament or life choices nor do I need to stand pat while they and their children default through at my expense. That is not equality InTheLight. Any thinking person knows this and what you are attempting to do.

They have made life choices..for which I am not responsible.


I have found very few women out here who are willing to take on a mans maintenance costs at their expense with the exception of within traditional womens roles. But I have noticed lots of women ..even educated smart women who will gladly let a man take on more of her and their childrens maintenance costs/traditional roles while they give their men second and third rate options..or none at all..while taking his first fruits...and running very rapidly ..them and the children in the fast food lane. This is standard all across the board.

As to women being smarter than men...wow!! Are you serious about that?? That is great news.

If women are smarter than men..I am sure they will be taking over this government and balancing the budget soon enough ..correct??? Instead of spending this government and people into more debt with a blank check...right??

How is Nancy Pelosi doing...is she voting for more blank check or do you hear her talking about balancing the budget?? I've never heard her talk about any such thing outside of more expendatures.

What I recall her saying as a smart thing..a smart woman..was..
"You have to vote for it to find out what is in it." Concerning the health care act. Now that is a prime indicator of a smart woman...Yes???
I dont think so.

Do you know smart women who take out insurance policies such that if they die first their men are well taken care of if these women go first??? You know..smart ..savvy ..intelligent ..educated?? Concerned, feeling, sensitive women interested in Equality and the welfare of their men???

Do women believe in that much equality or will there be silence again on this question???

I dont think women are smarter at all...I Just think the womens movements have found a way to hide what they are not willing to do or RISK...such that no one sees it for what it is...Politics. Of the cheapest kind.
I think they take alot for granted in the world in which we live in the west. This is not so in third world countries where both women and men work hard and risk alot every day.
Only in the economically affluent west can both women and men be so ignorant as to take so much for granted as normal..when it is not so.

Smart does not mean taking tests...and going to college..it means what are you doing with it when you finish school.
What are you willing to do with your education even if it means taking RISKS!!!

As this economy flounders and collapses under leftist socialist give aways....this is going to become rapidly apparent and the body politic and news media will no longer be able to hide it from people..even the staunch leftists...are now waking up to the understanding that some product spoon fed to us out here is not as advertised.

We are headed the way of France, England, and Soviet Russisa in our economy...to become a third world backwater. I dont think smart women are going to change this..but vote for more of it instead. All I have to do to know this ..is learn to read between the lines in all the Studies and Surveys.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


If a woman ever comes into real power, I hope she does not follow in the steps of past ideologies, because she too will fail. Unfortunately, it seems anyone put into power walks the same path as all the others.

So, what points have I offered so far as to what may have contributed to the downfall of traditional family - taking the feminism out and replacing it with facts (see previous links to studies)?

1. The times they have changed and women can and choose to be independent, or the resources now exist for them to choose options other than staying in an unhappy or abusive marriage.

2. Women now surpass men educationally, so marriage and childbearing are postponed, or not desired at all for various reasons. As well, successful women may be hard-pressed to find a man their intellectual and/or educational equal with the same earning potential when they are ready to enter into a union and raise children.

3. Divorce with it's multitude of reasons.

4. Independent women choosing the life of a single parent because the choose to, or because they have no other choice but to take on the immense responsibility alone due to abandonment or other circumstances.

5. From the study I posted previously, that it is not in most men's nature to be nurturuing and exclusive to one woman (fatherless society).

6. Irresponsibility or naievity of one or both parties to enter into marriage or a sexual relationship without due consideration; this is also due to any reasons.

I'm sure I could find many more studies to shed some light on this societal trend, but I think I have made my position clear and I hope more readers will join in this very intesting subject.

I remain,
In The Light.

InTheLight
reply to post by orangetom1999

 

If a woman ever comes into real power, I hope she does not follow in the steps of past ideologies, because she too will fail. Unfortunately, it seems anyone put into power walks the same path as all the others.

So, what points have I offered so far as to what may have contributed to the downfall of traditional family - taking the feminism out and replacing it with facts (see previous links to studies)?

1. The times they have changed and women can and choose to be independent, or the resources now exist for them to choose options other than staying in an unhappy or abusive marriage.

2. Women now surpass men educationally, so marriage and childbearing are postponed, or not desired at all for various reasons. As well, successful women may be hard-pressed to find a man their intellectual and/or educational equal with the same earning potential when they are ready to enter into a union and raise children.

3. Divorce with it's multitude of reasons.

4. Independent women choosing the life of a single parent because the choose to, or because they have no other choice but to take on the immense responsibility alone due to abandonment or other circumstances.

5. From the study I posted previously, that it is not in most men's nature to be nurturuing and exclusive to one woman (fatherless society).

6. Irresponsibility or naievity of one or both parties to enter into marriage or a sexual relationship without due consideration; this is also due to any reasons.

I'm sure I could find many more studies to shed some light on this societal trend, but I think I have made my position clear and I hope more readers will join in this very intesting subject.

I remain,
In The Light.

InTheLight,

Thank you for confirming or laying the groundwork in confirmation of what I have been posting all along.

I must make haste and will elaborate later.

Orangetom

In The Light,

If a woman ever comes to power?? Are you kidding?? THere have been a number of women in power in this century and they made little difference. Think of Margret Thatcher the PM of England. What has happened in the UK I do not believe is the Fault of Margret Thatcher..but of other events of which she was not able to control. Margret Thatcher was in fact in favor of the opposite of what has happened to the UK today..the socialist give away state..or nanny state. It has gotten so bad in the UK that many foreigners have arrived to take advantage of the generous "Breast feeding " available by the government. It is dragging the UK into the toilet...and it will eventually happen at an exponential rate.
This same fingerprint is being planned here in American ...like the UK with universal health care and unlimited illegal aliens planned for us. We are being made into Continentals..or Brits.
Same thing has happened to many European nations...Greece comes to mind.

A woman is in power in Argentina...with another economic disaster on the horizon... Cristina Fernandez De Kirchner, chief of state & head of government. Their economy too is once again going into the toilet.

I am not sure what you are thinking here...or if you grasp enough history to be thinking ..or just what you believe from surveys and statistics..but not history.


Now ..let us take a closer look at your list of items for the smart savvy woman ...and the feminist belief/religious system attempting to pass for facts today without showing or declaring the whole story...but only the Public Relations side.

1. The times they have changed and women can and choose to be independent, or the resources now exist for them to choose options other than staying in an unhappy or abusive marriage.

Ahhh...thank you InTheLight for this breath of fresh air and truth. The truth here lies in the word "Options." Notice here the abscence of the word "RISK."
Notice also the assumption that so much is of a unhappy or abusive marriage.
I have stated over and over that women are not interested in Equality...but are interested instead in "Options" within a female or feminine framework..not "Equality " per se..but "OPTIONS."
This distinction is seldome made by the Feminist movements while teaching and preaching their guilt politics and victimization.
And now here you are making this admission. One need only flesh it out a bit more to see it for what it is.
What is not told or taught is that many women believe today that marriage is an "Option" not a responsibility. For men it is a responsibility ..for the female an Option. She is expanding out her OPtions.

2. Women now surpass men educationally, so marriage and childbearing are postponed, or not desired at all for various reasons. As well, successful women may be hard-pressed to find a man their intellectual and/or educational equal with the same earning potential when they are ready to enter into a union and raise children.

Oh please ....InTheLight...this one is neither educated ..nor intelligent nor savvy ..but it looks great on paper and it will definitely appeal to those who think that they are a "Victim."
Dr Farrell covers this several times in his dissertations on the status quo among women and why or how they come to believe and buy into this drivel.
So many women today who have bought into this nonsense are growing olde alone.

Notice the usage of the term...hard pressed to find a man who is their intellectual or educational equal. Now this one is a jewel to those who have the knowledge to think it through.

Most intellectual women are not RISK takers. INstead they use their intelligence to get out of RISK taking and get someone else to do it for them.

Yet..women at the same time claim to be interested in "LOVE."
Common sense tells you that an independent woman who can take care of herself economically ..is now free to come to a man for "LOVE" only. The very thing so often and ferverently pushed in all the Romance Novels...magazines, movies, and television. Love permeates all these genres.
But is that what you are pushing here InTheLight?? I don't think so. I think you are promoting exactly the opposite.
You are pushing that a woman who is independent and economically capable of taking care of hereself...move up the economic and intellectual ladder..not down it..thus severly limiting her "LOVE " potential and replace it with social status. He must at least match her handbag or shoes.
This InTheLight..is double talk to those who know the tell tale symptoms.

3. Divorce with it's multitude of reasons.

I know alot of these women who bought into line one two and now three of your post. They are growing olde alone.

Carol..split from her husband...intellectual..savvy...chic...nice dresser. Her ex put up a house for her and the children into which to live till the children came of age. The very day the last child came of age...Carol had to move out of the house and get her own place. Carol was always a very nice dreseer...up to date..up to style etc etc. But now that she has to take care of all her maintenance costs..I see her on occasion about town somewhat threadbare. It was alright as long as someone else was underwriting the expenses..but this smart woman now is not doing so well. What I finally pieced together was that if a man was still underwriting her expenses...because of the children...but at the same time kept her in style...how much were the children actually losing out on to keep her well dressed and stylish. Because no one saw what we do!!?? I think so. No one sees what we do. I think the children lost out on alot in this arrangement to keep her in style and socializing.
Of course now she has alot of biology gone under the brigde and no real life skills outside of work. No ability to keep and love a man..and is growing olde alone.

Becky is the same way. Investing in biology through surgery to keep and maintain herself available in the marketplace. Tummuy tucks..liposuction...anything to stay in the game ..but no real marketable life skills..and only social/sexual skills. It appears that the men were able to detect this and see beyond the physial and her carefully hidden high maintenance needs. She too is growing olde alone.

Virginia the same thing. She looks down on men with her pride. She threw her man out...and now rents rooms out in her house to men. Interesting to me that she does not rent to women. For she knows well the default excuses and strategies of women. Men she finds more easy to control. But she is growing olde alone.

With education or without...many of these women who bought into this stuff are growing olde alone. They have gone the route of men being expendable and disposable for their glory and or maintenance costs.

While I have not seen Becky or Carol..in some time..I have seen Virginia..and she is some what pitiful to me. But she made her bed...and chose her "Option."

All these women had this same fingerprint when the biology began to run out and it became Pumkin Time Cinderella.
Education or not..it was the same.
By the way..todays education does not teach this to women...nor to men.

None of these women were able to bring to a man ..long term...Peace. They were only able to bring a man very short term Piece. That was it ..peak performance.

Continuing on in another post with the list of InTheLight.

Continuing on in reply to InTheLight's post above.

4. Independent women choosing the life of a single parent because the choose to, or because they have no other choice but to take on the immense responsibility alone due to abandonment or other circumstances.

More victimization..because of bad choice making...now others are responsible or accountable. What is not told or taught to most people out her is that most of these women and children go from a man being a wallet to the government being a wallet and a substitute for a man without the upkeep of a man..hence "Options."

Notice the sleight of hand with InTheLight..by the use of the word "Independent." Absent is the word "Self Sufficient."
As I stated...so many of these women are today growing olde alone. Im sorry ..I may have mispoke here..they are growing olde with Oprah and Dr Phil. And for the less sophisticated..with Steve Wilco, Jerry , and Maury to make them feel good about themselves.

5. From the study I posted previously, that it is not in most men's nature to be nurturuing and exclusive to one woman (fatherless society).

This one is one of the biggest jokes of all time..but it is standard justification among the victimizatoin crowd of feminists today. This is a very important ingredient of the good cop/bad cop/good guy/bad guy formula.

The assumption is that men are not nurturing. What they are stating without being clear about it..is that men do not nurture in the manner that women nurture...therefore it is not nurturing. This is one big lie and deception..the default setting is that only women can nurture. Not so.

I remember teaching a pre teenage girl the multiplication tables as she had never learned them. I would make her accompany me on jobs around the house..while she had the paper with the tables in her hand. Whenever she got a wrong answer..I would make her refer to the table. Over a period of about three weeks..she began to get it.

One day I took her mother and the rest of the kids to a movie. I was a bit shocked at the time at the ticket price..there were seven of us. She quickly stated..that $7.00 per ticket meant $49.00 for all of us. I was a bit stunned that she had gotten it enough to understand how to multiply in this instance. I quickly congratulated her for a job well done.

For some reason her mother could not figure this out ..nor take such action to instill confidence in the child for the multiplication tables..but could plant the children in front of a babysitter..I mean television ..water and feed them.

I did the same thing with another of these children who was having problems reading. I simply gave him a book and told him to read to me while I was doing some work or relaxing at their mothers house. Over time ..it helped his confidence in reading.
But I never could get that youngster into crossword puzzles.

Dont ever attempt to tell me men do not nuture...just because a man does not nuture in the manner that a woman nurtures..does not mean he is not nuturing.

So many women also easily forget that is the social trend for men to work and turn over a generous portion of their paycheck to the woman and children for their use. This is so seldom or never mentioned by todays smart, educated, savvy, intellectual woman in lieu of "Victimizatio Theology " so rabidly practiced on boards and threads like this.
The willingness of a male to work and turn over a huge block of his production to women and children is one of the greatest adaptations in the animal kingdom..but hardly gets mention..whle playing the blame game.
I have not to this point seen InTheLight mention this facet of male behavior while playing "Victim and the Blame Game."

Nuturing is not exclusive to women.not at all.

This becomes quite and nakedly obvious when women are aborting so many children. If they can abort children so easily it is only a quiet step to aborting men or males. Not difficut to think through.

As I have said over and over..the male is the most exendable and disposable sex out here.

6. Irresponsibility or naievity of one or both parties to enter into marriage or a sexual relationship without due consideration; this is also due to any reasons.

This is become standard as well..by this I mean the tendency of both parties to define themselves by their sexuality as power. This is one of the biggest and cruelist hoaxes to be perpetrated on a dumb ignorant group of people..male and female both.

Because people are so much more than sex and sexuality..marriage or single. Yet so many have bought into this false paradigm. The womens magazines are replete with this formula for sex is power. Becky, Carol, and Virginia and a host of others .. have all found out it is not power. This particularly when the biology began to run out and they were no longer that marketable against the competition..but were also not really integrated into any real life skills as regards a partner. They found themselves alone ..without a help mate.

This...is where so many male and female both sell themeslves short. Where they have bought into a false paradigm.

For a man who knows..find a woman who can bring you Peace in your life..a woman who has the thought, skills, and love to bring you Peace..not Piece at a very high maintenance cost.

For a woman who can take the commitment and RISKs to bring a man Peace ...has within her the ability to put a man on a drug for which he never wants to get off it.

Do you ever see or hear people the like of InTheLight..and others of the feminist crowds make such an statement??? I haven't...ever. Nor have I ever heard this from women the likes of Becky, Carol, or Virginia.

An intellectual..savvy...understanding...loving..educated woman should be able to figure this out in Love..the very thing so many women claim is missing from their lives. But do they when running the standard issue formula of InTheLight and others???

Think this through very very carefully in lieu of the standard issue propaganda being spouted off today..by Experts with Studies Surveys and Polls...and I mean on both the left and the right. They will all lie and deceive you on this.

Must make haste now.
Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


Make note that in my initial post I referred to a woman gaining 'real' power, not simply stepping into a position of power and following the previous ideology as is typically expected, but instead that woman using that 'real' power to make significant changes.

Orangetom, for your every one example, I could post up to seven counter examples. This blame game you are playing reminds me of a dog chasing it's tail.

And now for a little levity.

So when you’re tasked with seeking the root cause of a major problem, don’t waste your time looking to the easiest answer—look to feminism instead! If you work really hard, I’m sure you can find a link. And remember, any time you get a paper cut, or trip over something or a man somewhere stubs his toe—that’s not an accident, friends, it’s just a feminist getting her wings.

www.thenation.com...#

In the light..

I'm not sure you are once again thinking this through with all the cards in the deck...particularly with a view to history and what history teaches us.

This in particular as comes from George Santayana...

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemmed to repeat it."

Make note that in my initial post I referred to a woman gaining 'real' power, not simply stepping into a position of power and following the previous ideology as is typically expected, but instead that woman using that 'real' power to make significant changes.

Does Kathleen Sebelius ring a bell..how about Lois Learner?? Janet Napolitano??

All heading controversial and disputed offices over this land.

Once again I notice what you are saying by the abscence of what is in your posts.

Real Power??? What about the people who take real RISKS with their lives and fortunes? You do not seem to comprehend this concept. Totally ignore it in favor of your focus on Power.

This tells me that you believe in the absence of power...hence the victim dictum. Simply because you ignore the RISK factor..in order to quench your thirst due to what you perceive as the abscence of power. Ignoring RISK is not power..it is ignorance. You nor the feminists ever mention RISKS. Why is that InTheLight??

I will remind you InTheLight...that physically on this earth there is no more absence of or loss of power than the loss of life. Men and males exceed women by far in this category.

Are you debating here for the purpose of increasing women's death rate..in equality?? In order to get the power you think you are missing??

You and the womens movement cannot possibly be so uneducated that you miss out on this important concept and the RISK which accompanys it.

When you deal with occult systems ...occult philospohys you learn to spot what is not there.

"Wealth Redistribution " is a very feminine philosophy. Something for nothing ..without RISK.

"Wealth Redistribution is not RISK Redistribution." Simple isnt it?? Once you learn to spot what is not there.

You already have feminists in high office/power..and they are making a mess of things up there..and in the process putting huge burdens on people financially...economically. Government in power is the absolute worst caretaker or the public fidelity. This simply because government kills off competition and raises prices to everyone ...in an attempt to make things fair...they kill off the goose laying their egg. Thinking people know this.
They are accelerating the problems..not solving them.

Orangetom, for your every one example, I could post up to seven counter examples.

InTheLight...please do...give examples. It would be a refreshing change from studies, surveys, and polls..politically derived.

When you do attempt to give specifics...it is easily seen through for the blame game it is along with more "Victimization Theology"..or the "Science of Victimization."

This blame game you are playing reminds me of a dog chasing it's tail.

Do you know how to hunt??
You can do better than that. Much better...remember education...savvy...intelligence...Power...RISK!!!


Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


Within your beliefs are many more reasons why traditional marriages fail, mainly your point that a man should seek out a woman to give him peace. I would counter that a man should have found peace within himself before he seeks a relationship with a woman, so that point falls under 'unrealistic expectations' before entering into a relationship and/or marriage.

From additional personal research, the upcoming generations seem to enter into sexual relationships (friends with benefits...no such thing) and/or marriage with 'unrealistic expectations' and/or a lack of committment. As I posted before, within the last few decades many resources have become available to women to enable them to leave unhappy and/or abusive partners and so they should.

This is not a complex issue as to the high divorce rate and why most women have to step up to take the brunt of the responsibility of raising children. As the statistics show, men are not stepping up and taking on this responsibility compared to women. I believe you have not bothered to read any of the studies I posted about fatherless societies, but anyway, how do you explain this phenomenon Orangetom? (And try to stick to the topic at hand - but, in answering a couple of your questions, yes, I can hunt, specifically wild edibles and medicines. If men and women don't want to die at war, then don't vote for the war mongers).

reply to post by InTheLight


InTheLight,

Good Grief!!!

Within your beliefs are many more reasons why traditional marriages fail, mainly your point that a man should seek out a woman to give him peace. I would counter that a man should have found peace within himself before he seeks a relationship with a woman, so that point falls under 'unrealistic expectations' before entering into a relationship and/or marriage.

Surely you jest here. This has to be humor!!??

We are speaking here of your beliefs or belief system ...Yes???

A man can find Peace on his own..he does not need a woman for this. However ..if he is going to take RISKS within a framework of marriage or even living together..He would like to have Peace with a woman.

I am agast that this does not occur to you...after making a statement about women being more intelligent and highly educated than men..according to so many polls...surveys..studies.

Ahh..perhaps I have mispoken here...remember this from your above post

By the way, have you read where they prove women are smarter than men?

Your statement above is not smart..but self indulgent. They used to say it takes two to tango..is this now passe???

It is obvious to me that you have no idea as to what constitutes Peace to a knowledgeable man. Also that you, as do so many women, have problems thinking outside as sex/power/beauty beliefs and arena.

A man who is in fact a man...can get women to take off their clothes...in or out of a marriage. It is not a rare or valuable commodity in the marketplace. It is not going extinct anytime soon...or since the dawn of time.

I know women and females for whom this is their only life skill in their tool box...taking off their clothes. Anything else would take work and commitment...even RISKS and they will avoid this assiduously. The very thing/topic you seem so hesitant on which to speak or converse.

So a knowlegeable man does not take up with a woman for sex or dinner ..or his maintenance costs. For he can take care of these things himself. A man should never come to a woman in marriage for sex or what we call the "Oil Shortage." It is not a rare or valuable commodity out here. Peace is the rare and valuable commodity. Not Piece.

Now Peace is a very different thing InTheLight. Peace means the home to which he comes is a place of peace and contentment...where he is safe from the chaos of the oustide world. A place where the bills are paid and not in arrears. There are surplusses. Where he is not constantly bombarded by the chaos of Children running the show to the non standards of the outside world....where there is food and warmth to be found. Where he can find shelter from the chaos of the oustide world..the world is not constantly trying to come in and take over.....children or not.
And She is capable of setting, keeping and maintaining the home in this condition..working or not.. and not have the outside world to come in ..invade and run things to the tempo of the outside world. She does this out of love..not consumption rates...including consuming her mate to keep the goods coming.
This..InTheLight..is Peace..it is a drug..for which the knowledgeable experienced man ..never wants to get off it.

David...down at work..in conversation ...it is obvious that in his home...Peace does not exist...he finds more order and contentment at work than at home. He comes in last to every and anything and he is the sole worker/provider..but comes in even behind the pets. And I know many men like this. They are all busy running touchdowns to even ask what is wrong with the game. What a dumb bunch of men. What a dumb bunch of women to whom they are married.


Now a man worth a darn can get these things on his own..not difficult. But idealy he would like to have them with a mate. But what are they teaching and promoting to women today??

Male expendability and disposability.

All I have to do is read your posts and studies, surveys, and polls to understand it.

This concept of Peace is not to be found in any of your postings or studies.

However...Piece is to be found.

This is why I state..that Piece is a very very poor substitute for Peace.

But the truth is today..that so few males understand this and instead substitute such nonsense as sports, cheerleaders, and alcohol..and Piece..while the women are not at all interested in Peace...but instead ..are interested in Options..by use and misuse of Piece....consumption levels..including consuming the males.

It is a lose/lose situation for both..because neither understand the concept of Peace and have instead bought into a ersatz substitute or counterfeit.

The essenced of a counterfeit..InTheLight is Occult...hidden concealed even esoteric..until it is to late.
The mark does not realize what is happening until it is to late.


That of which I am speaking here is entirely sensible and practical..but not in a social structure of disposability and expendability with a view to the destruction of the family unit...socially, politically, and economically. In short..chaos.


Oh..as pertains to this...sorry ..but you missed the mark by a long shot. Way off target. I am a bit surprised again that you seem to have missed the target or concept of what I posted earlier.

(And try to stick to the topic at hand - but, in answering a couple of your questions, yes, I can hunt, specifically wild edibles and medicines. If men and women don't want to die at war, then don't vote for the war mongers).

The hunting and gathering of which I was referring in my previous posts meant hunting and gathering men...or males..not food per se.

I too can hunt..fish too. I do not come to a woman for these things. I do however know women who are very good herbalists and better versed in plant life than am I and will refer and defer to them for their knowledge. I have no problems with this. One of them is teaching me, albeit slowly, about herabl remedys to certain problems. Of late I am being exposed to an understanding of Broomweed and someting called aloe vera. I am grateful to this woman for this knowledge.

Nontheless I was referring to hunting and gathering males..not in the context to which you refer...and that the males are so often ignorant that they think that they are the Hunter Gatherers. It is not so.
Dating older women taught me this...how agressive ..a woman can be without appearing so...on the outside. As I stated ..because a woman is not hunting or gathering as does a man ..does not mean that she is not hunting and gathering.


To many males have sports conditioning..not thinking conditioning per se...including me at times.

Gotta make haste now.
Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

Orangetom, you are twisting the meaning of my posts, which I'm not sure if you truely misunderstand them or are deliberately skirting some issues, so for the last time, I repeat:

Every man and woman should find peace within themselves and know themselves (wants and needs) before entering into any commitment with someone else - deal with your emotional baggage first, so to speak. The give and take that is required in a committed relationship is a whole other thread and there should not be any control/power struggle between each other.

I didn't say women were smarter than men, the scientists who conducted the study did. I just posted it for informational reasons, as I found the study interesting and it also points to perhaps another reason why the traditional family has declined and will continue to do so, namely due to the fact that women are pursuing personal gratification and success through education and career rather than choosing marriage and bearing children first.

Interestingly enough, if you look at the statistics of educated women compared to non-education women throughout world countries, you will see that the more educated the woman the less children (or none at all) she and her partner (if she decides to have a partner) will have.

The studies that I am reading point to many reasons for the downfall of the traditional family - leaving feminism out of it - to the reasons for the existing and future metamorphosis of what the modern family and ever-changing needs of society may be, so here's just one study based in the U.K. that I offer for everyone's perusal and comments.

Schools would be asked to help youths to explore a less narrow version of masculinity, and encourage parents to talk to their sons about manhood and fatherhood. Far from yesterday's role models of soldier, miners and farmers, male youths, says Abbott, are part of a "transit generation" left working in services industries they are uncomfortable with, or not working at all. "Look at many of our young men graduating from university this year," her speech says. "Faced with mass unemployment and often unable to fly the nest they can find themselves locked into a transitional phase at home, or find themselves voluntarily creating an extended adolescence, sometimes resentful of family life."

www.theguardian.com...

Let's explore hypermasculinity in men's magazines.

link.springer.com...

I haven't yet addressed the effects of pornography and violent video gaming within our society, but that is another factor to consider.

InTheLight,

Orangetom, you are twisting the meaning of my posts, which I'm not sure if you truely misunderstand them or are deliberately skirting some issues, so for the last time, I repeat:

Good grief!! Your talking about context here...context. One thing is clear...you have your context and I have mine. It is obvious that we are going to disagree...in the different contexts. No problem by me. I merely show that in your points, studies, and surveys...not all the cards are there in the deck. Also that it becomes obvious that many of the views and reasons are not mentioned and I take time to mention them...for clarity and expanded view. Thoughts and ideas which because of political bias..would never get mentioned or are totally missing or not mentioned as you are want to do.

I merely dont allow you in your Studies, Surveys, Polls ...to get away with such a narrow interpretation or presentation.
I know this because many of the points to which I mention or bring to light...you do not comment on them and when you do...such as Hunting...you mistate the context.

You are always going to have a different context than do I. I have known this from the beginning of my posting here. No problem again. I have merely been observing the pattern by which you operate and think you are sovereign....able to default through without comment or without debate..as do so many of the educated and sophisticated today. I find it to be neither..but narrow minded...showing only one side or rationale....in like manner to which politics operates today..on the ignorance of the public perception and understanding. Preying on the public emotions with more of the "Victim Dictum or Victim Theology."

You serious need to understand something about me and how I think and analyze the world around me when you try to bring or present these debate points...surveys, studies, and polls.

I dont emote easily..I am not a drama queen...it is somewhat difficult to box me into the standard default settings to silence or shame me into silence.
This because I have worked or taken RISKS aplenty in my life. ...sufficient to know what my RISK Taking is worth in the marketplace.
I am not a daywalker..the night does not frighten me.
I dont like drama queens..male or female. Nor drama parasites.Those who survive by taking advantage of drama and emotions to default through...or silence and or control others unto silence.

This does not make me better than other people..only different. I dont fit into the blocks for which social engineers try to box everyone else into for the purposes of control or silence.

I do not think you are accustomed to dealing with an individual like me..with your standard M1A predictable approaches..standard propaganda..standard boxes of predictability.

I can do this same thing with the standard racists..today...on both sides of the line...open racists and also those who have made a career of racism...the racism cottage industry. This is exactly what has happened to feminism...just as is the race baiting and race hating industry...they feed off each other and need each other while keeping the public in the middle. They all have to create bad guys to justify their positons ..and on the public purse.

The homosexual industry is the exact same fingerprint...censorship and control...and for political reasons...just like the others....ie....votes.

I dont need to be smart to understand it or need to go to college and get a degree in this nonsense. Chances are if I went to college I would not be able to detect this for the across the board phonies that they are ...all these issues. For the phony angle is what is sold in order to set the hook on the people...get them not to think for themselves.

You learn to think for yourself and you soon enough find out that these groups..all of them want tolerance from everyone but are not themselves tolerant...they are phonies.

Every man and woman should find peace within themselves and know themselves (wants and needs) before entering into any commitment with someone else - deal with your emotional baggage first, so to speak. The give and take that is required in a committed relationship is a whole other thread and there should not be any control/power struggle between each other.

Stop...stop...InTheLight...This looks good on paper..and in "Ideal Laboratory Classrooms." It just does not work out in life.

Notice what is missing from your post above......."RISK."
What do you think happens when one sex takes the RISK by tradition...social custom..and the other sex capitalizes on the RISK taking of others...while screaming "Victim."
You attribute this to power and control..I attribute it to a lack of RISK Taking...while claiming equality...or put another way ..the product is not as advertised. Once again..just like politics...which is today ...confusion.

Wants and needs...stop this nonsense InTheLight. Who is going to take the RISK to make them happen. This is what is missing from your posts. Particularly when the going gets very very rough. This is where you find Truth..not in good times.
To have the belief system you try to pass off as Truth...you have to be under good times ...where the RISKS have already been pre staged and taken place ..for you ...gratis. People who do not live in such economically affluent social structures..have no illusions about this.
Do not let the affluence of western social/economic structures deceive you as to what exactly is the status of real commitment...and RISK taking...verses sexual Politics.
You have to become educated to become so ignorant as to such deveive yourself.
The people in New Orleans, the tornado ravaged areas of American and up the coast after Sandy have a very different perspective today on life...not the nonsense you or the surveys spout out.

Economic affluence and being deceived by this is not ingelligence or savvy nor smart.

I didn't say women were smarter than men, the scientists who conducted the study did. I just posted it for informational reasons, as I found the study interesting and it also points to perhaps another reason why the traditional family has declined and will continue to do so, namely due to the fact that women are pursuing personal gratification and success through education and career rather than choosing marriage and bearing children first.

Stop...stop again InTheLight...You posted it to make a point...your choosing..your decision..I merely dissented and posted my thoughts on it. But you posted it as a way of making a point which you thought was very worthy..I did not think so.

If a woman is so smart...why are so many not able to keep a man?? Not difficult to think that one through. They obviously do not know how to keep a man on a drug for which he does not want to get off it. Do they teach this philosophy in high schools and colleges?? I doubt it.
It is obvious by your posts you have never thought it or brought this concept up for consideration.
I remember reading, InTheLight, when the feminists used to teach and preach.."After all..your only dealing with a man." But no drug on which a man never wants to get off it. Only Chaos.
Not very smart of a woman.

Running out of characters. I am going to make another post and continue.

Orangetom

The UK , InTheLight..is a very bad example of what is planned and scheduled for the USA..in Feminizing the males. What is happening to the males in the UK is confusion...and is also thusly planned and scheduled for the USA. And Feminism is right in the middle of it.

Schools would be asked to help youths to explore a less narrow version of masculinity, and encourage parents to talk to their sons about manhood and fatherhood. Far from yesterday's role models of soldier, miners and farmers, male youths, says Abbott, are part of a "transit generation" left working in services industries they are uncomfortable with, or not working at all. "Look at many of our young men graduating from university this year," her speech says. "Faced with mass unemployment and often unable to fly the nest they can find themselves locked into a transitional phase at home, or find themselves voluntarily creating an extended adolescence, sometimes resentful of family life."

www.theguardian.com...

This InTheLight is because of the feminizing of the whole country on the government breast. Males and females both. Including the huge immigrant population on government hand outs. This is happening in Continental Europe as well.

So far the only country which is even trying to turn this around is France..but they are on the path to Doom..by instituting a 75% income tax on certain people. You have to become educated to become that dumb as to kill off your goose laying your eggs. Let me put this another way, for which now that you have spoken with me, you will surely understand InTheLight.
What France is doing is making some people ..."expendable and disposable" for others..by Entitlement...by government largess.
Sound familiar?? Some would call this Discrimination of some for others..or Wealth Redistribution. I have another word for it...
"A Shakdown."

Let's explore hypermasculinity in men's magazines.

link.springer.com...

LOL LOL LOL...good grief...you think I have never read any of those magazines. I find most of them to be junk..just like Cosmopolitan and others of that genre...pure junk.

Maxim...

Even Hot Rod..or Car and Driver..pure junk.

As I said..Maxim is the male Cosmopolitan. It is sexist and ignorant..just like Cosmopolitan..Elle..and others.

Car and Driver.....men or males buy a certain type of car because they never saw an ugly girl or woman get out of one.
What ignorant nonsense.

I have actually heard a young woman state..."I look in a guys eyes then see what kind of car he drives." What nonsense.

Oh..speaking of that ..here is an interesting video.....oh ..not for you InTheLight..but for the readers out here. There is alot of truth to this...not with all women or females..but with alot of them. I dont believe you would ever post such a concept for the understanding of the readers so I feel compelled to do so.

www.youtube.com...

Try to imagine a mans magazine like Handyman or such of that genre...with a headline..

"How to trim 40 pounds off that walnut cabinet ..without work and without "RISK"..without really trying!!"

But this kind of stuff often passes for greatness in the female genre of magazines. I dont think so.

That is what I think of Maxim and other such magazines...including Car and Driver.

I haven't yet addressed the effects of pornography and violent video gaming within our society, but that is another factor to consider.

Please do...this should be interesting. I say this because so many women and females think the sexual arena is a female dominated arena....theirs to control and manipulate to their desires and needs..by default.

I would like you to post your definition of pornography for me and the readers out here. I would like to know how you think on this one.

Are you for certain that you want to go down this road as a mark of your excellence, knowledge, and control over this topic and feminism?? I have been waiting for you to venture here..since the beginning...knowing with predictability that you would have to so do in order to get the topic and thinking in line with your belief system...in your corner.

I greatly disapprove of women and men both who only have the fingerprint of sex and sexuality by which to define themselves. They are to be found aplenty out here...particularly on Friday and Saturday nights. That is their business..if they want to do that ..but it makes me realize what a treadmill they are on and known it not.

Thanks for your post/posts,
Orangetom

You are always going to have a different context than do I. I have known this from the beginning of my posting here. No problem again. I have merely been observing the pattern by which you operate and think you are sovereign....able to default through without comment or without debate..as do so many of the educated and sophisticated today. I find it to be neither..but narrow minded...showing only one side or rationale....in like manner to which politics operates today..on the ignorance of the public perception and understanding. Preying on the public emotions with more of the "Victim Dictum or Victim Theology."

I see you have a cemented an opinion about me that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling all over. That's fine, you must do what you must do to maintain your beliefs and prejudices, however they were formed and never corrected. By the way, how goes the hunting for ? prey? I'm not sure what you are hunting for, please explain.

As for the video you posted, it now works two ways (who is narrow minded?).

"Today, of course, people are far too pragmatic to consider whether or not their nuptial plans uphold ancient patrician values. Money and lifestyle are chief among the concerns of modern day swains. Until recently, women alone were associated with such “gold digging” ambitions and business strategies. But drastic changes in the economy, along with other significant social and cultural shifts, have encouraged men to embrace the time-honored practice with equal resolve."

www.vanityfair.com...

A good study about the effects of pornography, please do have a read. Characteristics required for success in a marriage...

Research states these characteristics as: investment in the well-being of the beloved; respect; admiration; sexual desire; intimacy; commitment; exclusivity; and understanding.

The above summation for both sexes is what I am trying to get across, but seem to be unable to for Orangetom.

simplemarriage.net...

I post studies, statistics and quotes by those that have a better way with words that I...as the following.

"German poet Heinrich Heine said you cannot feed the hungry on statistics. Well-researched stats can only illuminate the problem, not solve it."

Here are the latest statisicts on pornography, which I hope will illuminate.

www.covenanteyes.com...

nixie_nox
Only very insecure and weak males are threatened by feminism and try to paint it as a dirty word.

I have to agree with this observation and it is an observation, not from any study.

I see you have a cemented an opinion about me that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling all over.

Oh..goodness me...InTheLight. You give yourself to much credit here. Nothing warm and fuzzy about it at all. I find great portions of what you post on here in the manner of the moral and ethcial high ground to be obscene..even pornographic.
I like to think you can see further than what you are doing but I may be disappointed here. Hence I am not necessarily posting here for your benefit..but for the readers here to see another side to what is going on out here..for you and those from whom you have learned will never present it.

Ok by me...I merely make note of it for the readers.


I don't think with your tack that you are the one to correct my beliefs over to yours. You seem to lack the requisite skills and knowledge base. I have noted this..but no problem..it was never my intention to have you or anyone else "correct" me over to their standard default beliefs.

As to hunting..my reference was to Hunting and Gathering. In many histories the male is often portraied as the primordal hunter gatherer. This is often a falsehood...
What began to clue me into the nature of subtilties of this was two things...Occult studies...and also a book called.." Sex and power in History by Amaury De Reinccourt.


www.amazon.com...=sr_1_11?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382914700&sr=1-11&keywords=Amaury-Riencourt

I found this to be a very interesting book in places albeit dry but a few jewels to be found in it.
It was only later that I ran across the books and now videos by PHD Warren Farrell which further fleshed out the history by Amaury De Reincourt into pattern recognition.

As for the video you posted, it now works two ways.(who is narrow minded?).

What...you mean ..in like manner to the video..women buy cars because they never saw an ugly man get out of one??
Are you sure you want to go down this road.
As I stated in a previous post...it is the women and female in western economically affluent social structures who determine what kind of cars are purchased...all across the board. This is primarily a female determined economy in this arena.

"Today, of course, people are far too pragmatic to consider whether or not their nuptial plans uphold ancient patrician values. Money and lifestyle are chief among the concerns of modern day swains. Until recently, women alone were associated with such “gold digging” ambitions and business strategies. But drastic changes in the economy, along with other significant social and cultural shifts, have encouraged men to embrace the time-honored practice with equal resolve."

I have seen these types of men...and most of them have one thing in common. They are feminine and have embraced the feminine positions..particularly maintenance positions. OK by me..but I wouldnt trust most of them to feed my pets.
I also know that most women..even "Progressive " women are not interested in underwriting these maintenance costs for a male. You have yourseslf confirmed this for me in your standard issue statement previously above about finding ones educational, intellectual and economic equal.
I phrase it differently ...women are primarily interested in marrying up the economic ladder..not down it.
I dont have any use for feminine men..or males...nor such females. I have use for women..and that is not it.

LOL LOL LOL>..you would be quoting vanity fair...I put that magazine in with Cosmo...and other tabloids.



As to pornography ...your study tries to make a point but does it only one way..and ignores the other event happening out here all across the board..but does not mention it for what it truely is...Objectification...

"Sex objects...success objects."

I knew this when you went down this road and I told you in advance.

You have not provided me with your definition of Pornography.


I will give you Warren Farrells definintion of it...and it took me some time to have it sink in because of standard issue programming.

Access to dreams, beliefs , Fantasies expectations...cheaply/inexpensively...easily ...without work and without RISK or another way...without Rejection.


Now ..InTheLight..I am going to "Illuminate " this Objectification for you in a manner for which none of the feminists are ever going to be want to do. Also in a manner for which most of the males out here cannot vocalize....

The woman in the video I posted was not interested in the man until she found out what kind of car he was driving. Only then could she be bothered to give him a second look. This is objectification. It is also obscene. It is pornographic in that she is objectifying him as a success object...now worthy of her consideration. He must first prove or demonstrate himself worthy of her consideration. I call this "Try Outs." like trying out for the baseball or football team..sports conditioning.

Becky from my above post would often say or state..." A man can have me but he is going to have to pay full price." When it finally dawned on me the extent to which she was carrying on ..I had a good laugh. Granted ....back then it took me some time to figure out what she really was. But today ...like Carol and Virgina...she has the strength of her convictions while growing olde alone...and threadbare. All the liposuction has left her without any bloom..even in her olde age...and no fall back skills or knowledge. All her maketability was in the physical ..not real life skills.

Now ...we dont think today ..because of textbook male non thinking ..of these women being obscene ..even pornographic..but that is exactly what it is.

David...his wife cannot create a home where he is happy to come home..does not come in last behind the pets...but every other precidence happens including the pets..but the for the one who takes first place RISKS for all this to happen for others without work and without RISKS. This is obscene and pornographic...offensive.
Work is the only place where he finds comfort and structure It will kill David to retire. Kill him dead....this is obscene and pornographic.
This is not strictly David's wifes fault. It is also his fault for not being able to identify the nature of the problem. To busy running touchdowns to think it through to a solution. But it takes two to tango.

As I have been trying to clear up...there is much more to life out here than sex and sexuality. What I find so disappointing when dealilng with many women..is that this is the best they have ...when the going gets rough ...or difficult.


I will further ask you this question, InTheLight, for yours and the readers consideration since I dont see it in any of those studies and surveys.

What is the ratio of men to women working in the porno industry?? And furthermore ..why is that?? This concept is hardly ever mentioned when playing the blame game you and others are want to do. It is women by far..

Think that one through...carefully..

Nonetheless ..I don't recommend anyone out here to define themselves by their sex and sexuality as who they are.

Thanks,
Orangetom

reply to post by orangetom1999


So, tell me Orangetom, what is the reason for the downfall of traditional marriage? And, tell us how long you have been married.