Guns Don't Make Us Free. Period.

reply to post by seabag

In America we retain the right (and means) to ensure that freedom. I can walk out of my front door tomorrow and buy 100 guns an 1,000,0000 rounds of ammo without a problem...I can TOMORROW...next year is a different story.

You're so free you're not even allowed to cross a road without a green man to tell you so

Originally posted by milominderbinder
Obviously in the wake of Friday's tragedy there has been much ado about whether or not more strict gun laws are coming to the U.S. or not.

Here is why it makes ZERO difference if the proverbial "they" come to "take our guns away". (in no particular order, chronological or otherwise).

1. In 1963 the whole country watched as the US Intelligence Appartus murdered a sitting US President in broad daylight and produce an OFFICIAL explanation that rests on the presupposition that at least SOME bullets are imbued with magical qualities. To this day...gun owners have done nothing about it.

2. Bob McNamara came clean and told us all that the Gulf of Tonkin Incident never happened. Gun owners did nothing.

3. Reagan wheeled out the unconstitutional "War on Drugs". Gun owners did nothing.

4. The CIA announced that they now torture people without trial in secret overseas prisons. Gun owners did nothing.

5. The whole country watched an ENTIRE PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION lie about the Iran-Contra Arms deal. Gun owners did nothing.

6. Donald Rumsfeld to justice for announcing he "misplaced" 2.3 Trillion dollars THE DAY BEFORE THE 9-11 ATTACKS!! Gun owners did nothing.

7. Colin Powell lied to every man, woman, and child in the country on national television in order to start a 9-year, $1 Trillion dollar war in Iraq under completely false pretenses...which ultimately resulted in 1 MILLION CIVILIAN DEATHS?? Gun owners did nothing.

8. HUNDREDS of FEMA camps sprouted up underneath the Patriot Act. They are built now...and sit empty...just waiting. Gun owners did nothing.

9. Occupy Protestors had chemical weapons deployed on them and their Constitutional rights subverted ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY. Gun owners did nothing. In fact...many (certainly not all) of them supported the cops because of some silly artificial cultural war that your slave masters conditioned you to believe in.

10. Virtually every week there is a new story about a police officer beating someone to death, executing a family pet, tasing people with reckless abandon, kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach, etc, etc, etc. Gun owners do nothing.

11. The Federal Reserve and the Banksters conspire to swindle your fellow citizens out their HOMES for Christ sake. Gun owners did nothing.

12. Countless corporations have screwed you and your neighbors out of their pensions, retirements, and investment portfolios. Gun owners did nothing.

13. About 10,000 other things too...I'm sure.

I hate to burst your bubble...but the only thing the NRA has done since it's inception is bribe politicians.

Quit fooling yourselves...because you're certainly not fooling anyone else.

Good post. I've made this point many times over the years on here and made it a couple of times over the last few days. It's farcical, it really is. I ask 'when will enough be enough' and I never hear a real answer. This whole site is practically perpetuated by how bad America is/has got; the vast majority of threads are Americentric - how this is happening, how that is happening, how this other thing will happen some time in the future, how something else was revealed to have happened some time in the past. Thousands of angry and concerned posts everyday as to how America is going to hell in a handcart and many of them are coming from people who own guns.

How bad does it have to get America? The majority of you will hand in your guns and step into cages before ever firing a shot, all the while lying to yourself that having guns and the second amendment will stop it happening.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
How bad does it have to get America? The majority of you will hand in your guns and step into cages before ever firing a shot, all the while lying to yourself that having guns and the second amendment will stop it happening.

It is not a tyranny until they come after the guns in the possession of the gun lovers. Or perhaps not even then

if the US army was to come looking for you there's nothing your guns can do about it. Your deluded if you think otherwise.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Guns don't make you free...that's perfectly true.

Just as guns don't kill people either. People do, sometimes they happen to use a gun to do it, sometimes they use other weapons.

People create freedoms. in America's case, those freedoms were supposed to be forever enshrined in a document called the US Constitution.

Guns are tools that enable people to preserve and protect those freedoms.

reply to post by seeker1963


Seems like people want the cycle of violence to continue, hence their adamant opposition to a ban on any type of firearms.

Don't even suggest arming teachers. We should not have to resort to that in America.

reply to post by seabag


Isn't the NRA dominated primarily by white males with ignorant views on politics in this country?

What have they done to help a soul?

If these people value their right to own a gun, where are the township rebellions? Why aren't they out there making our forefathers proud by fighting this tyranny?

It's because they're lazy and the NRA is yet another front meant to control these specific people.

The 2nd amendment was created in times of strife and uncertainty. Back then there was a reason and due worry to actually promote the vigilant safety of citizens.

However times have changed, for the better. You are now one nation. A nation that should be respecting each other, be an example of bio diversity and cultural multitude.

But instead you have remained insistent to live in fear. Not only fear of the non-existant enemy halfway across the Earth but also of each other.
You have been held back by breeding in this need to be free and fare well on your own accounts.
You have bread in your intolerance and greed subconsciently and because this is in all of you, you help each other project the fears of having taken from you what you perceive as rightfully yours.

It's is obvious in your social in-equalities, it is more than obvious in your meddling with the business of sovereign nations, and it is obvious in your insisting on protecting an outdated law such as the 2nd amendment.

Look as Canada... they have a right to arms as well, but no where near do we see as many occurrences of crimes committed with guns or assault weapons.
Look at other countries in general. We are not less free than you... actually I feel immensely safe. I don't fear that someone with a gun will hunt me down, or commit atrocities like what happened at Sandy Hook.
We DON*T NEED WEAPONS to feel safe... we are safe because no one is allowed to have weapons.

The crimes that has happened now in the states are not because people are insane, or grew up in a bad way or hated someone. These crimes occurred simply because there was an easy access to guns.

It is time for you to move your mentality out of the dark ages and come join us in the relatively peaceful world we live in.
And hopefully in time, the complete ban on guns in America could in time lead to coming generations to have a more un-greedy, peaceful, tolerant view of the world and a much much bigger feeling of safety within your own country's borders. (outside for that matter as well... stop believing that people you've never met, living half way across the globe is trying kill you. Seriously.... it's down right un-intelligen and stupid, and I don't hope that is the view you want your kids to have of you. Grow up... really)

reply to post by WP4YT


I did 7 years in the Military thanks and could likely fire a gun more accurate than you.

So how easy is it for a sadistic 20 year old to get an ak-47 and 2 barettas? And I heard that his mother teached him to shoot? Why would this duo have access to guns of any kind?

I just wonder what the American gun owners think they are going to do with their peashooters against the governments tanks, bombs, jets and missiles.

reply to post by flice


You don't think the world is in a time of strife now then?

Millions on food stamps.

Homes being lost, jobs hard to come by.

Communist China soon to be the dominant military and economic superpower.

Worst financial meltdown and short to mid term outlook, worldwide since the 1930's.

All of which means markedly more violence, desparation and robbery is firmly on the horizon.

A US government that actively ignores it's own constitution.

A US government that incarcerates people, from all over the world, with no access to a trial, a jury, family members or even legal representation.

A US government that sanctions and orders murders on it's own domestic citizens, without evidence or proof of any wrongdoing.

And you think the the 2nd Amendment, which effectively gives the population a chance of at least a minimum of protection against such outrages, should go? Or isn't required 'these days' because all is well and rosy in the world?!!

You're kidding yourself i'm afraid, there has probably never been a time in history, when Americans (and the world by proxy) needed the rights and freedoms afforded by the 2nd Amendment, to protect their families and themselves, more than they do today.

reply to post by milominderbinder


No, guns do not make us "free". Freedom to defend yourself lets you do so with guns.

You know what guns have done? Protected homes and businesses as well as random people.

The revolution might not be necessary but everyday crime needs a deterrent. I don't think we want guns to overthrow the government. We want them to defend ourselves.

That is not even mentioning their constitutional right to exist in the hands of people with which the monopoly on the use of force only by the authority of the land is broken. That is a historical first that Americans will never give up.

Like the samurai sword. Banned and punished for existing but never effectively erased from Japanese culture.

Guns are similarly the US's badge of honor. We won the right to have them through a hard fought revolution. That will not be "erased" from our cultural identity. You can stage a massacre every other day. In fact seeing how more people are going on killing sprees we might have to consider arming more of the population in everyday situations.

reply to post by MysterX


What you have just written there comes from the mind of the paranoid.Even if anything you said there was true, Guns will do nothing to protect you. When will you Americans start to look at other civilized countries in the world that don't have legalised fire arms laws and realise that those countries are much safer for its average citizen than that of their counterpart in the USA.

On average 30,000 peaople a year die from gun shot wounds in the USA and a staggering 200,000 are wounded. Compare this to the UK where there on average on 2,000 deaths a year from gun shot wounds. That is 3 times more deaths than the UK per capita roughly. Do the statistics not make you wonder if your opinion about guns is correct? Or is ignorance the prefered option on this particular subject?

Lets put your 30,000 deaths by gun related wounds in the USA into perspective. Road accidents kill only 10,000 more people a year than gun related wounds. Yet everybody is still crazy for guns.

Please allow me to respond to only number 8. Of all the numbered statements.
I believe that this will answer your posts entire premise by keeping it simple.

Our guns do indeed keep us free in that they cannot fill their fema camps as long as we have our guns, they must first disarm us under the pretext of keeping us safe.

Br. Ben

Originally posted by BrBen
Please allow me to respond to only number 8. Of all the numbered statements.
I believe that this will answer your posts entire premise by keeping it simple.

Our guns do indeed keep us free in that they cannot fill their fema camps as long as we have our guns, they must first disarm us under the pretext of keeping us safe.

Br. Ben

30,000 a year. There is blood on your hands being an advokate of owning a tool made primarily for the use of bringing death. Your paranoia about your own society and government is KILLING 30,000 of your Citizens a year. When will the American people stop being selfish for once and look at the implications of mass gun ownership in your country. 200,000 a year are shot in the USA. But thats ok because you are "free" right?

reply to post by michael1983l



there is no comparison. The population differences are HUGE.


62,641,000 in the UK V.S. 311,591,917 in the USA.

Everything would be easier and safer with that much less people.

That does not change the fact that we are arguing the validity of our most sacred law, our constitution.

I could say that Europe's constitutional workers rights are being removed with austerity measures, making all your constitutions invalid and you might agree. Just today I saw that Spain now charges for bringing people to justice. If I want to take you to court in Spain now, I have to pay. If I want to fight a traffic ticket, I have to pay hundreds of Euros first. They have made the legal system for rich people only. That is against Spain´s constitution, and they are going nuts about it.

You could say mass about how necessary these austerity measures are but they are violating the constitutions of the respective nations involved. Europe is almost up in arms about it. So don't go knocking OUR constitution while defending yours from the same people out to make us all the same blob of people across the globe.

We are Americans, WE HAVE GUNS. /end of story.

You are Europeans, you have MASSIVE social welfare and workers rights. /end of story.

This will not just be worked into our minds by repetition and all the massacres in the world. Like the most unprecedented financial crisis will not make you guys skimp on the social programs without a fight. Our constitutions are our highest laws. MADE BY US, and nothing will change that.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Right, so whats important to discuss here is the fact we have different populations and your inability to extrapulate figures means you cannot compare them.

The not so important thing clearly in your case is that 30,000 people a year DIE in the USA from gun shot wounds. And 200,000 people are wounded.

I see you have your priorities straight.

You're right.

Guns don't make us Free.

They protect our Freedoms.